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Entry level Reciever.....

#1
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6/12/09 at 5:50pm
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Yamaha - 500W 5.1-Ch. A/V Home Theater Receiver - RX-V365

Looking to start a respectable system, and have this reciever in mind to start with.

Any opinions? All I have in mind is a TV, a DVD player, Play Station, and running my digital cable thru.

As for room size, it's just a small room. About 12' by 15' or so.
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#2
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6/12/09 at 5:54pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Also if anybody knows if this EQ I have is of any use. It is a Technics 7 band EQ model # SH-8058. I will see if I can find a link about it, or take a picture. Just a stab in the dark, don't figure it is useful.......but the digital lights look kool lol. Any response on this would be great.
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#3
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6/12/09 at 8:30pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Get at least the 465, not the 365. 365 doesn't process audio via HDMI, which is a massive flaw IMO. 465 has 4 HDMI, decodes everything, much better. If you absolutely have to hold to under $250, then find a Sony 820.

The EQ isn't really of any use unless you want the digital lights as a night-light .
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#4
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6/12/09 at 9:04pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
The EQ isn't really of any use unless you want the digital lights as a night-light


For certain rooms they can be very useful, if adjusted carefully, which is why better receivers now include automated room EQ systems i.e. Audyssey etc.

Marvin: hooking up the Technics will most probably require a set of tape monitor input/output jacks and there are very few receivers sold nowadays which include this feature. Though if pre-out/power-amp-in jacks are present, IMO that should work too.
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#5
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6/12/09 at 9:25pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceJ



Marvin: hooking up the Technics will most probably require a set of tape monitor input/output jacks and there are very few receivers sold nowadays which include this feature. Though if pre-out/power-amp-in jacks are present, IMO that should work too.

Kinda figured that.....pretty much obsolete.

As for the HMDI, I am not complete clear on that. I noticed my playstation has the HMDI plug, but the DVD nor my satilite box have them.

Appreciate the responses.
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#6
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6/12/09 at 9:56pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceJ


For certain rooms they can be very useful, if adjusted carefully, which is why better receivers now include automated room EQ systems i.e. Audyssey etc.

Marvin: hooking up the Technics will most probably require a set of tape monitor input/output jacks and there are very few receivers sold nowadays which include this feature. Though if pre-out/power-amp-in jacks are present, IMO that should work too.

I wasn't referring to EQ in general, I was referring to the EQ he has. You pretty much nailed why it won't be useful. You need a higher-end receiver with a pre-out -> main-in loop, and even then it's limited to just the front L/R channels, is 7 bands only, and needs separate mic + software. While the higher-end receiver probably has its own built-in EQ for all 5-7.1 channels with included mic + calibration routines that you'd definitely want to use instead of this one.

As for HDMI, it's definitely the preferred way to hook up a PS3, the only way to get the newer codecs from Blu-ray. Your sat receiver may not have one now, but if you eventually upgrade to a HD-DVR version as you should, that and any newer component should also be using HDMI. With the 365 you only have 3 digital inputs, with the 465 you have 8. You can "get by" with the 365 for now, but you are totally full and if you add something in the future you are hampered & have to add additional switches. While the 465 would probably be good for 8+ years.
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#7
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6/12/09 at 10:44pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Did a little more looking and found this....

Denon AVR-1609 Home theater receiver with HDMI switching at Crutchfield.com

I have realized I need to research more before I get a reciever. And move up my price range into the 300-400 range......closer to 300

With the 7.1 can I run 2 of the channels as 2 single subs?
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#8
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6/12/09 at 11:21pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinJr

1609, though more features, still has the same problem as the Yamaha 365, that is no audio over the HDMI. I kind of hate those receivers, one of the main touted advantages of HDMI is "audio + video with just one cable!", then these receivers totally lose that and require a 2nd cable. In the Denon line you need this year's 1610 minimum. Really the Yamaha 465, last year's Sony 720/820, and this year's Sony DH-700 are the cheapest ones you'll find that have HDMI audio.

Quote:
With the 7.1 can I run 2 of the channels as 2 single subs?
Hmm, that's not something most people attempt around here, as we tend to mostly buy powered subs. Building your own DIY passive subs?

I suppose it's possible in principle on some of the higher end receivers that have an independent zone 2 mode, using the "surround back" channels for zone 2 while running in 5.1 mode. You'd loop the sub-out back into some other input and route to zone 2. But I think it would be a lot simpler to just find someone's old stereo amp/receiver on craigslist/ebay for $40-50 or so if you needed to power a couple subs.
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#9
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6/13/09 at 5:42am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

A quick search on Google (Froogle) finds the Onkyo 507 for $300 to $344. This could meet you needs now and in the future.
My Home Theater
Our DVD Collection
Dolby and DTS Plaques (downloads)
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#10
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6/13/09 at 9:25am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Went this morning and got a Yamaha RX-V365, was only $220. Fits my needs for now, and gives me a chance to build speakers.......and I can see what I am missing out on from the more expensives recievers. Because once I learn more I will use this system in the spare room, and build me a better system in the living room.

Question about hooking up.....
Got the DVD pluged in right, wondering about the way to run the digital cable and tv. Do I run the cable into the reciever, and the tv out of the reciever? Or Can I just plug from the cable box to the reciever, and leave the cable like it is conneceted to the tv?
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#11
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6/13/09 at 9:38am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

You have digital cable or satellite? First post you said cable, then you said you had a satellite box, now you claim digital cable again?

How you connect depends on what outputs the set-top box (whether cable or satellite, doesn't matter) has. You can go either, audio-only to the receiver with video straight to the TV, or both the audio&video to the receiver with the receiver's "monitor out" to the TV. It doesn't much matter. Running through the receiver makes switching easier if you have lots of components using the same connection type, then you only have to switch the receiver & not the TV (though with a universal remote this isn't that big a deal either). Not going through the receiver saves a couple cables.

For audio, use coax or optical digital out, if available. For video, the preference order is HDMI - component (Y/Pb/Pr, green/blue/red) - S-video - composite (yellow) - RF (screw-on "f-type" coax), depending on what is present on the box.
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#12
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6/13/09 at 9:41am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Dish network
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#13
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6/13/09 at 9:47am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Dish Network Box has component plugs and f-type and s-vidoe. The Tv just has F-type, and single video in, and sinlge audio in. I think I am going to have to go back to my smaller TV for the plugs on it.....it has 2 sets of component plugs, and s-video. Theres no s-video on the reciever, but I can link the Dish network box and that tv, with more connections left.
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#14
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6/13/09 at 10:12am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Stop using the term "digital cable", it'll confuse people as that applies to cable TV. Just call it "satellite" or "Dish network".

If you want to use the bigger old TV, then run all your components to the receiver with the composite video plug, and use the composite out from the receiver into the TV. Use digital audio from source components to the receiver.
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#15
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6/13/09 at 10:53am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu
Stop using the term "digital cable", it'll confuse people as that applies to cable TV. Just call it "satellite" or "Dish network".

If you want to use the bigger old TV, then run all your components to the receiver with the composite video plug, and use the composite out from the receiver into the TV. Use digital audio from source components to the receiver.
Ok that all makes sense, thanks man. But I still need to keep the dish network reciever connected to the tv via the f-type connector right? Because by connecting the composite video from reciever to TV that is just letting the signal from the dvd and playstation get to the TV thru the reciever? correct?
Also which plugs would I plug the playstation into? I don't have an MHDI cord at this time, but the plug from my playstation is an HMDI into a component plugs (? the red, white and yellow ones)
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#16
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6/13/09 at 11:18am
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinJr
But I still need to keep the dish network reciever connected to the tv via the f-type connector right?
No. You'd be watching the TV on the composite input. That connector is for watching satellite on channel 3/4.

Quote:
Because by connecting the composite video from reciever to TV that is just letting the signal from the dvd and playstation get to the TV thru the reciever? correct?
Yes, plus the satellite.

Quote:
Also which plugs would I plug the playstation into? I don't have an MHDI cord at this time, but the plug from my playstation is an HMDI into a component plugs (? the red, white and yellow ones)
I'm going to assume your playstation is a PS3 since you are talking about HDMI. But if you have a PS2 my comments still pretty much hold since you aren't using HDMI.

Since your TV doesn't have HDMI, and your receiver can't do anything with the audio, you should ignore HDMI completely.

You need to get your terminology straight regarding "component".
"Component" is a video connection using 3 jacks/cables marked green/blue/red, usually labeled "Y/Pb/Pr". It is used on newer video equipment and HDTVs. These often are also grouped with a pair of red/white jacks for stereo audio; you can find cables that are just the 3 for video, and also 5-RCA cables that have 3 for video + 2 for audio. I think you are getting this mixed up with the older audio/video "AV" inputs/cables, the yellow/red/white jacks which carry "composite" video, and right/left stereo audio respectively.

Since your TV is an old std TV, it doesn't have component, it only has an AV input, and apparently mono not stereo since it only has one audio jack. You need to use the "AV" cable that came with the playstation. One end is a proprietary end that sticks into the game console's "AV multi out". The other end will have the yellow/red/white AV cable. You'll stick that end into an input set on the receiver. In addition you'll connect the optical from the playstation to the receiver.

Also note that the "AV multi out" is not the same as HDMI. It's a proprietary connector only found on playstations. PS2 only has this, the PS3 has one of these plus a separate HDMI jack. They are perhaps similar size but different shapes/pinouts and are not at all compatible.
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#17
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6/13/09 at 12:14pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Thanks for all the help. Dish is coming thru just fine, but still have the dish reciever connected to the tv via the f-type connector (when I unhook it I lose the TV). The DVD sound comes in but no video.

I have the dish reciever, and dvd connected to the yamaha reciever via the 3 rca plugs. Also the dish reciever is connected as I said via the f-type screwon to the TV.

As for the PS it's a 2, and yes it has the RWY plugs, and an s-video.

I am going to have to switch to my smaller TV in here. Because I have to have the DVD and PS2 connected to the TV for video right? How will the reciever switch between them if I just connect into it.
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#18
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6/13/09 at 2:59pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Ok I have things hooked up and going. Using my bigger TV for the Dish Network, and the smaller TV for DVDs.....both run thru the reciever and working just right.

Only problem is my little book shelf speakers aren't putting out much low frequencies. Seems like they are missing the low end, not that they are much on lows but they should be better.
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#19
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6/13/09 at 5:01pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarvinJr
Dish is coming thru just fine, but still have the dish reciever connected to the tv via the f-type connector (when I unhook it I lose the TV).
You should unhook the F-type, it's an inferior connection. The dish should have a set of yellow/red/white AV on the back. Hook this up to the corresponding yellow/red/white "DTV/CBL" set on the Yamaha. Hook optical to the DTV/CBL digital input. To get video on the TV, then hook the yellow "monitor out" from the Yamaha to the TV. Now on the TV, you have to switch it to the AV input rather than the tuner. How this is done varies by brand/model. Usually there is an "input" or "VCR" or "TV/video" button or like on the remote, hitting this should cycle between the TV (you were probably watching on ch 3) and the external input(s). On some TVs you have to change to a special channel number like 00 or 99. If you need help with this give the exact brand/model #.

Your problem is likely either the monitor out wasn't connected, or the TV isn't on the right input.

Quote:
The DVD sound comes in but no video.
DVD video works the same way as the Dish, hook the yellow out to the "DVD" yellow in jack on the yamaha.

PS2 can go to the "DVR in" slot.

Quote:
I am going to have to switch to my smaller TV in here. Because I have to have the DVD and PS2 connected to the TV for video right? How will the reciever switch between them if I just connect into it.
No, you don't have to connect to the smaller TV. The receiver's monitor out will switch between the inputs and pick one to send to the TV.

Quote:
Only problem is my little book shelf speakers aren't putting out much low frequencies. Seems like they are missing the low end, not that they are much on lows but they should be better.
What are your speaker out settings, LFE/Bass out, crossover?
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#20
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6/13/09 at 5:31pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Going thru the settings now.

Got the lows straightened out.

Man I really do appreciate all the help dude. I don't have it hooked up exactly right, but it all works. And for now until I get my speakers in next week or so, it does fine. Now I am going to be looking for a medium sized flat panel, with better connection flexibilty. Then I can have things right.
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#21
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6/13/09 at 5:37pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Don't want to start a new thread for this question, cause it's kinda simple.

I notice the sub out is a single plug. And the amps I have found have L and R plugs. What am I missing here, I know it has to be simple.
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#22
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6/15/09 at 7:36pm
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Re: Entry level Reciever.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu
I wasn't referring to EQ in general,....
Gotcha.

Quote:
and even then it's limited to just the front L/R channels,
True, but for anyone reading this thread that doesn't have a receiver with auto EQ capability, that is better than no EQ at all, particularly since the front mains contribute so much. And when playing stereo music..........

Quote:
is 7 bands only,
Only seven bands? But much better than just simple bass and treble, yes? And IIRC Pioneer's MCCAC for example uses 5 bands for their lower priced receivers, and 9 bands for their $6,500 SC-09TX.
Quote:
......and needs separate mic + software.
I found lots of pics of this older (late 80s? early 90s?) EQ unit and unless I missed it, it does not require a microphone or any software.

(Boy do I feel old writing this next paragraph! ) A person can use their ears to set an EQ and no, it will not be as accurate as a computer's estimate, but it will be much better than allowing all kinds of nasty sonic bumps in their room's response, particularly at the frequency extremes.*

Quote:
While the higher-end receiver probably has its own built-in EQ for all 5-7.1 channels with included mic + calibration routines that you'd definitely want to use instead of this one.
True.


* this is similar to the reason the majority of speakers used to come equipped with level controls for their midrange and tweeter drivers, but eventually these disappeared because it was felt the owners might inadvertently destroy the careful frequency balance the designer had built into the speaker. But for some reason the designers forgot that most people do NOT live in the "ideal" living room the speaker was designed for. Fortunately I have started seeing a slow re-emergence of these very useful controls.
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