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Help Needed in A/V Receivers

#1
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6/9/09 at 9:47am
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I just purchased a 50" HD TV and i am looking to get
- The BEST BLU RAY PLAYER ( The most top of the line, no jokes )
- The BEST A/V Receiver ( The most top of the line, no jokes )
- The BEST Speakers/Subwoofers to accompany the A/V Receiver.

I have been looking at Onkyo and Denon Systems, although i am not limited to purchase from only these two choices.
I just need you guys to point me in the right direction.

I just need the top of the line system setup.

Thanks
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#2
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6/9/09 at 10:34am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Seriously? You don't honestly expect an objective answer to a question so innately subjective do you?

Without more specific information, I don't think you'll get many serious responses.
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#3
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6/9/09 at 11:23am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Hi Nitin,

Welcome to HTF.

What do you call "top of the line"? How much are you looking to spend on each item? Total? How big is your room?

Which TV did you get (just curious)?

We need a few more details before we can point in the right direction...
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#4
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6/9/09 at 11:40am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

The most top of the line eh?

Ok, for processing, I'd begin with a Theta Digital Generation VIII Series pre/pro... should run you around $14k

Now, for amplification, no need to get crazy but 7 McIntosh MC1.2KW Amplifiers should do... and run you another $77k ($11k each)

Speakers, wow, lots of choice here. Personally I'd go with Snell A7 Towers's at a bargain $35k each and get the matching center and sub.

Finally, for a blu-ray player, I'd probably go with an Insignia NS-2BRDVD.
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#5
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6/9/09 at 12:30pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Willow
Hi Nitin,

Welcome to HTF.

What do you call "top of the line"? How much are you looking to spend on each item? Total? How big is your room?

Which TV did you get (just curious)?

We need a few more details before we can point in the right direction...

Hi David, thank you for replying to my post.
For me top of the line means something that sounds amazing.
To be honest with you, currently i own a 'HTIB' ONKYO HT-S9100THX
The room is 18' by 15' with leather furniture.
I own a Panasonic Viera TC-P50G10 50 inch.

I have been checking out the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and i was thinking it would be an excellent upgrade to the ONKYO HT-S9100THX head unit.

I do appreciate the other user's answer but yeah i mean seriously, i am not trying to spend over $100k on audio equipment.

I have the budget to get the Denon AVP-A1HDCI if that will be a good move for me?
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#6
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6/9/09 at 12:36pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl
Hi David, thank you for replying to my post.
For me top of the line means something that sounds amazing.
To be honest with you, currently i own a 'HTIB' ONKYO HT-S9100THX
The room is 18' by 15' with leather furniture.
I own a Panasonic Viera TC-P50G10 50 inch.

I have been checking out the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and i was thinking it would be an excellent upgrade to the ONKYO HT-S9100THX head unit.

I do appreciate the other user's answer but yeah i mean seriously, i am not trying to spend over $100k on audio equipment.

I have the budget to get the Denon AVP-A1HDCI if that will be a good move for me?

OK, so $100k isn't your budget... we still haven't established what is...

What's your total budget for speakers, receiver, and blu-ray player?
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#7
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6/9/09 at 12:46pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brill
OK, so $100k isn't your budget... we still haven't established what is...

What's your total budget for speakers, receiver, and blu-ray player?

Speakers - I dont know.
Receiver - Something in the range of the Denon AVP-A1HDCI
Blu-ray - Umm i currently have a PS3. I dont know whats better whatever is the best.
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#8
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6/9/09 at 2:18pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl
Receiver - Something in the range of the Denon AVP-A1HDCI

Just as a note, keep in mind that the AVP-A1HDCI is not a receiver. It's a preamplifier. You'd need to buy an external amp (or amps) to drive your speakers.

If you want an integrated receiver, the top Denon would be the AVR-5308CI(A)
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#9
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6/9/09 at 2:53pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Glen
Just as a note, keep in mind that the AVP-A1HDCI is not a receiver. It's a preamplifier. You'd need to buy an external amp (or amps) to drive your speakers.

If you want an integrated receiver, the top Denon would be the AVR-5308CI(A)

Oh god, i didnt know that. Thank you.
So what would i wanna get? the AVP-A1HDCI or the AVR-5308CI(A)?
And is the AVR-5308CI(A) better than the Top Onkyo - TX-NR906?

How would you rate the HTIB HTS 9100THX Onkyo i have now?
How would you rate my TV?
I heard upgrading my wire on the ONKYO 9100THX to a 12awg will give me much better sound. If thats true then which one do i need to get? I mean any brand name like monster?

Thanks
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#10
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6/9/09 at 4:02pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Don't overemphasize electronics. The speakers+sub(s) make by far the most difference, start auditioning those first, put as much money into getting the ones you prefer most (a subjective thing, and more expensive is not necessarily going to sound better to you).

And before spending extra multi-thousands on the top-end AVP-A1HD, I would instead look into finding/hiring a custom installer to put in room acoustical treatments and do room EQ like Audyssey Pro on a cheaper receiver like the Denon 4310CI (being newer than the 5308, a lot of the useful features have dropped down and are available for cheaper). That would make infinitely more difference than simply dropping in ultra-expensive electronics to replace your 9100THX receiver.

Don't spend money on wires, that would be worthless. Your TV is fine in terms of picture quality, but it's most probably too small for your seating distance. For good HD viewing you generally want size ~= half your viewing distance, and those with front projector setups tend to go even bigger.
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#11
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6/9/09 at 8:05pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl
Oh god, i didnt know that. Thank you.
So what would i wanna get? the AVP-A1HDCI or the AVR-5308CI(A)?
And is the AVR-5308CI(A) better than the Top Onkyo - TX-NR906?

How would you rate the HTIB HTS 9100THX Onkyo i have now?
How would you rate my TV?
I heard upgrading my wire on the ONKYO 9100THX to a 12awg will give me much better sound. If thats true then which one do i need to get? I mean any brand name like monster?

Thanks

OK, we still don't know what you have to spend, so recommending anything is nearly impossible. Based on your current setup, Even a $2000 to $3000 investment will be a big step up. While the Onkyo HTiB's are some of the best, they are still not even close to "top of the line" equipment.

And no, don't waste money on Mon$ter cables. The speakers are the problem with the 9100, not the wires.
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#12
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6/10/09 at 6:09am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl
Speakers - I dont know.
Receiver - Something in the range of the Denon AVP-A1HDCI
Blu-ray - Umm i currently have a PS3. I dont know whats better whatever is the best.

Ok... let me try another question... how much money total do you want to spend?

If you are comfortable spending $7500 on a receiver, I would then recommend you spend in the neighbourhood of $30k for speakers (my general rule is 20-30% of cost on audio electronics, 40-60% on speakers, remainder on video). Is your budget really in the $40k range?

Even if you opt for the Denon AVR-5308CI(A) for $5500, you would still be looking at spending around $20k for speakers to do it justice.

In the $5k price range for the AVR, I wouldn't be wasting my time with the Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha's of this world and would seriously look at NAD, Rotel, Anthem, etc...

Either way, compared to your HTiB, anything will be better and for the most part, you need to set your budget because you can easily spend an almost unlimited about on HT gear (as I demonstrated above and that wasn't even the most expensive gear available, simply my dream system in the under $300k range ).

JB
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#13
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6/11/09 at 7:35am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brill
Ok... let me try another question... how much money total do you want to spend?

If you are comfortable spending $7500 on a receiver, I would then recommend you spend in the neighbourhood of $30k for speakers (my general rule is 20-30% of cost on audio electronics, 40-60% on speakers, remainder on video). Is your budget really in the $40k range?

Even if you opt for the Denon AVR-5308CI(A) for $5500, you would still be looking at spending around $20k for speakers to do it justice.

In the $5k price range for the AVR, I wouldn't be wasting my time with the Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha's of this world and would seriously look at NAD, Rotel, Anthem, etc...

Either way, compared to your HTiB, anything will be better and for the most part, you need to set your budget because you can easily spend an almost unlimited about on HT gear (as I demonstrated above and that wasn't even the most expensive gear available, simply my dream system in the under $300k range ).

JB

I would say $8k on a receiver.
Speakers i have NO idea. Please recommend.
BLU ray player - $500-700
Also need a better TV than TCPG10 PANASONIC 50"
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#14
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6/11/09 at 10:34am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Ok, for $30k here is what I'd be looking at:

Electronics
A) Anthem AVM 50 pre/pro with Anthem MCA 50 and 20 amps
B) Rotel RSP-1570 pre/pro with Rotel RMB 1575 and 1562 amps

Speakers
A) Bowers and Wilkins (B&W) 800 or 700 series
B) Kef Reference Series
C) Paradigm Signature Series

Blu-Ray
A) Panasonic DMP-BD55K
B) LG BD390
C) Samsung BD-P3600

Good-luck.
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#15
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6/11/09 at 10:50am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brill
Ok, for $30k here is what I'd be looking at:

Electronics
A) Anthem AVM 50 pre/pro with Anthem MCA 50 and 20 amps
B) Rotel RSP-1570 pre/pro with Rotel RMB 1575 and 1562 amps

Speakers
A) Bowers and Wilkins (B&W) 800 or 700 series
B) Kef Reference Series
C) Paradigm Signature Series

Blu-Ray
A) Panasonic DMP-BD55K
B) LG BD390
C) Samsung BD-P3600

Good-luck.

I cannot spend $30k i am sorry if there is a misunderstanding.
Aren't sony players better than any others?
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#16
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6/11/09 at 11:00am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl
I cannot spend $30k i am sorry if there is a misunderstanding.
Aren't sony players better than any others?

You are confusing. You want to spend 8 grand on a receiver but can't spend 30 grand on everything?

Unless I know how much you want to spend, I really can not help. Let me put it this way... My AVR retails for $800 and my speakers $4500. As you see, the speakers are 4 times the budget of the AVR. So if you can't do at least $30k, you are spending too much on the receiver.

Also, Sony is not necessarily better (or worse). IMO, Panasonic is the current leader in the BD player market. I am intrigued by the LG player with built-in streaming. This may be my next purchase....
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#17
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6/11/09 at 11:50am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Brill
Ok, for $30k here is what I'd be looking at:

Electronics
A) Anthem AVM 50 pre/pro with Anthem MCA 50 and 20 amps
B) Rotel RSP-1570 pre/pro with Rotel RMB 1575 and 1562 amps

Speakers
A) Bowers and Wilkins (B&W) 800 or 700 series
B) Kef Reference Series
C) Paradigm Signature Series

Blu-Ray
A) Panasonic DMP-BD55K
B) LG BD390
C) Samsung BD-P3600

Good-luck.

Is DMP-BD80K a better buy than the BD55k?
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#18
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6/11/09 at 12:11pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

At a certain price point, it stops being sensible to recommend someone allocate x% of their budget on receiver/amp vs. n*x% on speakers. This is because at those price levels, quality has become divorced from price, plus the quality vs. price curve for amps flattens out at a far lower point than speakers. You are paying for things like exclusive brand names, and the art/furniture/fancy cabinet material aspect of speakers rather than the sound quality aspect. Speakers are the most important, and are highly based on personal preference, go to a hifi-dealer and listen to a bunch and get what you like.

For amps, spending more doesn't necessarily improve your sound any. Since your room is normal size, unless you get particularly unusually hard to drive speakers, extra power doesn't really help you. 500w/channel is useless if you are only going to end up using 60 watts and anything louder is going to cause hearing damage. Preamps/amps/receivers are supposed to decode according to specified algorithms (and all using common chipsets from a small group of chip makers), then linearly amplify; properly designed, in the absence of extra EQ/DSP surround processing, they give equivalent output in the power range they can handle. So just don't expect sound quality improvements here, focus on room treatments & room EQ.

I agree with the others that it's kind of pointless for you to dodge the question about how much total you willing to spend.

TV -- I'd go with a bigger Panasonic TC-PV10 series, 58" or 65" depending on your seating distance, they come out later this year.

Blu-ray -- there's really no particular reason why you'd want to replace your PS3. For Blu-ray performance you won't do any better. Spend your money on something like a TivoHD (if you have cable) instead. What are you unhappy with on the PS3?
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#19
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6/11/09 at 12:15pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

I'm almost ready to give up

The Rotel combo will cost around $5500 (at full retail... who pays that?)
The Paradigm combo will cost around $10000 (get the cheaper studio series if need be)
The Blu-Ray player will cost less than $400.

There you go. Awesome system for around $15k.

JB
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#20
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6/23/09 at 11:35am
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Thanks but i am still lost.
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#21
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6/23/09 at 12:54pm
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Re: Help Needed in A/V Receivers

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl
Thanks but i am still lost.

Not surprised. Answer these questions:

1) How big is your room (width x length x height of ceiling)?

2) How much TOTAL money can you spend? (How much is in your bank account???)

3) Where do you live? (Are you comfortable ordering online?)

Unless we know this, we can't really help.
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#22
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7/5/09 at 5:58pm
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1) 18L x 13.4W x 8H
2) I want to buy the best A/V receiver and probably stick with some low price speakers like may be i wanna use the onkyos for now then later on upgrade to good speakers. I realized after buying the ONKYO 9100THX that it only upscales to 1080i so i am not happy with it anymore.  I want to get the best DVD player.
3) NJ, i am very comfortable ordering online.
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#23
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7/6/09 at 3:02am
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Wow.....

John, I feel your pain here, it's like pulling teeth..... Maybe he needs more people asking the same question over and over.

To OP:

How much total budget do you have for EVERYTHING. Not just a receiver (which frankly, based on the equipment you have, won't really be much of a help or improvement if you plan on keeping the same speakers anyways)... This is not a difficult question. However, until you, or anyone else for that matter, knows the answer, no amount of help is really going to be useful to you.

I mean, basically, you've said... I want the best sound money can buy, without really upgrading the most important parts of my equipment, and without really spending any money, and I want a pre-amp that's not a receiver and some new cables. Really? The best could cost hundred's of thousands of dollars (even millions). Something you don't appear to have available to spend.

There are answers in this thread already you should have taken notes on, like ... Speakers make the biggest difference... Don't spend $ on useless cabling... the Denon AVP-A1HDCI is not a receiver.. buy a modest receiver and better speakers...

Until then, here are some recs for equipment if you want the very best. I'll even provide two price points, high end and highest end.

Audio/Video Processor
Mark Levinson Nº 502 Media Console www.marklevinson.com/products/details.asp $30,000
Classé SSP-800 www.audioholics.com/reviews/processors/classe-ssp-800-preamp-processor $8,000.00

Amplifiers
Edge NL Reference Monoblocks x5 (or 7) www.audiofederation.com/dealership/edge/index.htm $140,000 each
Krell Evolution 900 x 5 (or 7) hometheaterreview.com/krell-evolution-900-monaural-power-amplifiers-reviewed/ $20,000 each

Speakers:
Kharma Grand Enigma gizmodo.com/photogallery/outrageousaudio/2821426 $1,000,000.00
B&W Nautilus www.e-hifi.com.au/b-w/PrestigeSeries/nautilus.aspx $60,000.00 each



Chris

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#24
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7/6/09 at 8:39am
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At this moment i am not happy with my PS3 anymore too!!!! This thing doesn't play PAL DVDs!!!!!
So now i need to get a new DVD player..
Earlier, John said i should get one of these DVD players...
Blu-Ray
A) Panasonic DMP-BD55K
B) LG BD390
C) Samsung BD-P3600
There are more models in panasonic .. like the BD60K and BD70K, 80K and more.. which one is the most advanced one?
And are there any other BETTER ones than these three DVD players?

Ok so back to the topic now..
So now i am realizing that speakers make the most difference, and that even if i buy the Denon 5308i i am not gonna hear much of a difference in audio, because the speakers are still crappy.
So then what should my first step be.... Buying the speakers? If yes then which ones? Lets say i want to spend like $4k
Also by reading the posts i understand that the speakers should cost about 5 times the A/V receiver's cost.

You say i should get a 'modest' receiver, what does that mean and what is your suggestion, i still for some reason want the best receiver .. which seems to me the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and i have to buy a amp if i buy that. Or i should just buy the AVR-5308CI(A)..
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#25
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7/6/09 at 9:20am
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No offense, but your priorites are screwed up.  99% of home theaters have no need for a 5808CI.  A home theater with crappy speakers has absolutely has no need for a 5808CI.  So why the obsession with having the "best" receiver?  Unless you are powering very inefficient speakers to reference levels in a concert hall, your money is best spent where it will do more good for your sound - speakers, room treatments, soundproofing, etc.  I understand the bragging factor here, but you are truly looking at $5-8K vs. ~$1000 for the more than capable (and top of the line for most companies) 3808CI.  That's a 4-6 thousand dollar difference, and no one, and I mean no one, would notice any sonic differences between the two.

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#26
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7/6/09 at 9:47am
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PAL capability is a very specific item that not everyone needs, and not every player supports, you should have mentioned that earlier.  Go with the Oppo BDP-83, it has PAL support (still subject to region restrictions, there may be a hack) and is considered one of the best upscalers for DVDs.  A lot of the others won't do PAL either, particularly if you get the U.S. model.

Definitely find speakers you like first.  "5x receiver cost" to me is a silly rule, because once you get beyond the smallest+cheapest sets, and are spending $1.2k+, there is little correlation between price and sound quality.  Cost only constrains which speakers you will consider & audition, but you shouldn't pick solely based on price, for after all a set that only cost 2x your receiver might sound better to you than one that cost 5x.  Of course if the 5x sounds better, pick it if you can afford it.  To me the rule is "get the speakers that sound best to you, which may or may not be the most expensive you audition", along with "if funds are limiting speaker+receiver total, first put it all to getting the speakers you like best".

IMO you shouldn't even bother replacing the receiver, unless you are getting a professional calibration + installing room treatments and want a new one with the Audyssey pro calibration compatibility.  Just plopping in one receiver in place of the fine one you already have is going to make practically zero difference.  If you do go for pro calibration, I think the 4310CI is a lot cheaper and you won't miss anything significant vs. the 5308CI.
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#27
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7/6/09 at 10:43am
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So if i understand correctly.... the speakers that came with the ONKYO 9100THX are ''crap" ?
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#28
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7/6/09 at 10:44am
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I can't get the TRUEHD symbol to light up? What do i have to do to activate TRUEHD on my onkyo 9100thx?
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#29
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7/6/09 at 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl View Post

So if i understand correctly.... the speakers that came with the ONKYO 9100THX are ''crap" ?
 

Yes, the speakers in a HTiB are more often than not the weak link in the package.  The Onkyo AVR that comes with the 9100 is a very servicable receiver, with all the bells and whistles of Onkyo's main receiver models.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djdownfawl View Post

I can't get the TRUEHD symbol to light up? What do i have to do to activate TRUEHD on my onkyo 9100thx?
 

Are you still using the PS3?  Last I heard, the PS3 is limited to on-board decoding of TrueHD; so you wouldn't get the TrueHD bitstream at the receiver, only Multi-Channel PCM.  It's been a while since I paid attention to PS3 stuff, so it may be changed by now.  Maybe a PS3 owner can correct me.
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#30
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7/6/09 at 11:12am
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I wouldn't call the speakers "crap"; they are better than the stuff you get in cheaper HTiB, but you can get better speakers.  TrueHD only lights if you bitstream the codec directly, which the PS3 doesn't.  The PS3 decodes internally, thus you get the "multi-ch" lightup.  *It doesn't matter in theory whether you decode in the player or the receiver, the end result is the same*.  The only thing you are missing is the "TrueHD" light itself, you are still getting TrueHD performance.
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