COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!! (Merged)

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

If that's true, then they'd probably be useless with a TV with a digital tuner (?) Their site is not clear about this at all and actually raises more questions than it answers.

DTAs

The DTAs will work with any unencrypted channel. They're basically QAM tuners with the capability to be authenticated (to prevent people from using stolen ones) and the capability (currently disabled by law) to decrypt channels that are encrypted using non-addressable means.

They are indeed comparable to the CECBs that have been all the rage recently, but of course not interchangeable.

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

In the material I was sent, it says:

"A digital adapter (DTA) delivers channels 2-78. A digital cable box will give you access to these channels as well as On Demand, over 40 free music channels, an on-screen guide, parental controls and other features. Both include remote controls."

I wonder if it would make sense to order a DTA so that my VCR can receive channels 2-78, in addition to the cable box for my TV & DVD recorder?

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

UPDATE:

My local ABC station did a piece on the news about Comcast's switch to all-digital in my area. The newscaster mentioned something about customers whose TVs have QAM tuners, and that they won't need to do anything to prepare for Comcast's switch.

I found that odd, as there is conflicting info on Comcast's own site. They imply that even if you have a QAM tuner, you will still need a cable box.

Well, this weekend, I re-scanned for channels on my TV, and lo and behold, I'm now receiving digital versions of all the cable channels in addition to the analog versions.

However, I'm still going to need a cable box to record cable channels because my recording devices don't have digital tuners.

Anyhow, I thought other Comcast subscribers who have TVs with QAM tuners would find this interesting.

Comcast box and VCR.....???

We got a letter about having Comcast basic service now we need their digital TV box. Now that we have the box installed on the TV's we are having problems setting up our VCR. The problem is you cannot record a show unless you are watching it or have the TV set to that channel. Has anyone else had this problem and know what the fix is? We want to be able to watch TV and record another channel while watching TV. If you have the fix or know of the fix please respond. Thanks for the help!!!

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

I have the HDHomerun, which can tune either OTA or QAM. When I first got the HDHR, I was able to tune in a handful of basic channels, but they took that away a month or two later, leaving me with just network channels and ESPN plus local access channels. Out of curiosity, I rescanned this weekend to see if I could get any more channels. I now get all the basic cable stations in addition to the network channels.

ETA: My friend has Cablevision, and he was outright told that he absolutely needed a cable box to receive hi-def channels. But when he got them in his new TV anyway, he was baffled because he didn't know what a QAM tuner was. I get the feeling that the cable co reps don't know either.

Re: Comcast box and VCR.....???

I've never done it so I'm not sure if it'll work but I think if you run the cable (from the wall) directly into the VCR and then have a cable run out to your cable box, you should be good.

Re: Comcast box and VCR.....???

At the very least I think you're going to need a splitter and an A/B switch.
Here are some wiring diagrams that may help:
Wiring Diagrams

I think this one in particular will be of help ("record digital, watch analog"):
http://www.comcast.com/MediaLibrary/...tch_analog.pdf

I think that will only allow them to record the lower (analog) channels. The cable box will have to come before the VCR connection for them to record any of the upper (digital) channels.

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

For all their services, yes. You will still need a cable box for some things, especially VOD.

However, in most areas where Comcast is going "all-digital", they are employing DTAs, which are restricted (by law) for now to tuning in unencrypted signals only. So wherever they're deploying DTAs, generally you'll see QAM tuners being far more useful than they might have been before the DTAs were deployed.

Re: Comcast box and VCR.....???

With digital cable service, to recording something and watch something being broadcast at the same time, you need to employ two tuners, one for each program. Your VCR probably doesn't have a QAM tuner, and/or surely cannot decrypt encrypted channels (if applicable), so the only way your VCR can record anything is to use the tuner in the cable box to tune in the channel that your VCR then records. That leaves your television in need of a tuner.

If your television has a QAM tuner, you could perhaps split the cable, with one cable going into the cable box (and the cable box connected to the VCR), and the other cable going into the television directly. Then, the only challenge left would be to also connect the VCR to the television, so that you can later watch what you recorded. Most VCRs have composite video output (yellow), along with RCA audio outputs (red and white, typically). And many televisions have an AUX (auxiliary) set of inputs (sometimes called Line In). This is actually a superior way of connecting a VCR to a television, so you would use them, and then could switch between the direct cable connection to the television (using the television tuner to choose what you want to watch live) and the VCR (selecting the television's AUX or Line In input).

If your television doesn't have auxiliary inputs, you'd have to get an A/B switch, and connect the output of the VCR, and the cable for the direct connection to your television to it (the A/B switch) and then connect the output of the A/B switch to the television. Then you can switch between the two sources using the A/B switch.

Keep in mind that analog television signals, and VCRs, in general, are old technology and what you're seeing now is a natural and normal progression towards obsolescence. Using this old technology will become more and more difficult, as time goes on, just like it became increasingly more difficult (for example) to get the latest hit music on 8-track tapes.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

They may or may not know; either way, it isn't their job to know though, and indeed, in some cases, they can get in trouble for sharing their own personal knowledge when it runs counter to the service specification that the service provider promises.

The more options that the cable company has to support, the more cost there is to such support. Being willing to support (for example) clear QAM means that they have to have additional training for their staff, and that they will be receiving a whole extra set of problem reports that they have to work their way through. By keeping their service offering specific to a more limited set of service delivery options, they keep their costs down, and thereby better serve their obligations to their owners. That doesn't prevent smart folks like us from using our especial knowledge, and that knowledge which our friends are wiling to help us gain, to take advantages of capabilities that our service providers provide but don't included as part of their supported service. As long as what we're doing is legal, then we shouldn't have any concern about doing so, and we could, of course, greatly benefit from doing so. However, we should never get the impression that the service we're taking advantage of thereby becomes a promised service: As long as the law allows them to, the service provider could take an unsupported service away at any time, without notice, because they never promised it to us in the first place.

There are also some capabilities that service providers are legally required to provide, but not legally required to support, and so in such cases it is (again) incumbent on the customer to know what the law requires of the service provider, and to know everything that they need to in order to support themselves in availing themselves of such capabilities. (Firewire is another great example of this.)

Re: COMCAST forcing digital cable boxes down suscribers' throats!!!

Patrick, have you received your equipment yet? I got my set-top box a few days ago (Motorola DCH70).

I thought that these things were supposed to be programmable, but I don't see anything in the manual about that. (EDIT: The box IS programmable, but I had to figure it out myself by stumbling onto a sub-menu, since the manual doesn't mention it).


Edited by MielR - 7/11/2009 at 04:25 am GMT

That's very interesting -- and good news for me. I recently read an article that claimed that Comcast decrypted their channels under 100 during this transition period, but that they would start encrypting them when the dust had settled.  But if the DTA's by law aren't allowed to decrypt, then there is no way they can start encrypting the channels again without essentially disabling the DTA's.  So owner's of equipment with QAM tuners should be able to enjoy clear QAM until they decide to scrap the DTA's (or they change the laws regarding decryption).

Since the timetable for my area's Comcast "upgrade" got pushed out, I think my DTA orders got canceled or delayed until it's time for the upgrade to happen, perhaps in the fall.

The latter (getting a waiver that will allow them to use encryption with the DTAs) is a good possibility, though by no means assured.  

It's still July 14th in my area. They sent out a flyer recently that mistakenly said the date was Aug. 11th, but that was wrong and they had to send out a postcard to correct their error.

Though I believe that at least Comcast wants to change that as well.  They want to ensure that people who watch TV on the Web are already cable-TV subscribers. 
Check out this article.

Broad DTA Waiver Granted

LINK

Essentially, the FCC has approved the use of embedded security in low-cost QAM tuners issued by cable companies to serve the needs of expanded basic cable consumers.  The FCC evidently feels that many subscribers will benefit from greater low-cost access to advanced services through the availability of a less expensive converter box.  No one really benefits from forcing cable companies and cable subscribers to use higher-cost STBs for expanded basic cable networks. 

This waiver helps level the regulatory playing field, a small amount at least, between cable and satellite, which has been biased in satellite's favor for many years.

There is a down-side for some subscribers though:  Cable companies have been considering a few options in the absence of the waiver.  The temporary intention seems to generally be to rely on traps to secure the first level of advanced services (often called "expanded", including networks such as Disney, A&E, USA, FX, TNT, etc.)  Traps are expensive to maintain, and therefore represent a significant cost of service, but the up-side of traps for consumers is that once you purchase access to a channel, you can receive that channel on every television in your home, with a tuner capable of tuning it in.  With this waiver, the need for traps is relieved; instead that first level of advanced services can be secured with the DTA's privacy mode, which can be enabled and monitored remotely, representing much less cost.  However, it means that QAM tuners without CableCARDs are unable to tune in these channels.

Despite this waiver, CableCARD still remains the means by which the industry complies with the federally-mandated requirement to allow consumers to use their own host devices.  When considering the value of a QAM tuner a customer may own or purchase, whether it is stand-alone, embedded in a television, DVR, or PC card, a customer must always consider that the promise that that QAM tuner will work is limited to one signal service from each local broadcaster (and not necessarily the main-channel HD service), unless the QAM tuner is CableCARD capable and a CableCARD is installed and paired. 

Incidentally, the security these boxes include is not really encryption, but more like the scrambling that cable companies used to secure movie channels from theft, back in the 1970s.  It is really just intended to discourage cable theft -- not really safeguard content from piracy.