HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Thanks for the tip, Josh.

I have reviewed the T2 thread in Van Ling's area, and I'm satisfied that the DNR issue has been blown out of proportion, mostly by well-meaning people who have misinterpreted what they were seeing. Van Ling repeatedly states in his thread that he didn't request ANY DNR AT ALL, and that the only additional work done here was to manually remove scratches, hairs and print damage where possible.

Van Ling also clarifies that the source transfer for this Blu-ray is the same one they've been using since the 2003 Extreme Edition DVD - and that this transfer has been the source of all SD and Blu-ray releases since that time. To make a new HD source transfer will require the involvement of James Cameron, who is still working on Avatar and hasn't even had the time to look over the HD transfer done for The Abyss three years ago. Van Ling also confirms that this edition was intended as a kind of "maintenance release" to coincide with the release of the latest movie.

He also admits that on every release of this title, he has been criticized from all sides - too much grain, too little grain, too bright, too dark, etc. And even after he plainly discusses the process of making this Blu-ray, he still gets criticized in that thread, with people apparently trying to correct his perception of a transfer he knows better than we do! (He makes a good point about people posting screengrabs - JPEGs are not necessarily accurate representations of the real quality of the moving images they represent.)

I have accordingly revised my review to include his input, so that people just looking into this discussion now may be able to see a more balanced perspective.

I still think we haven't seen the last of this title yet. I'd be willing to wager that 2011 will see a 20th anniversary re-issue with a brand new source transfer approved by Cameron, but I've been wrong before...

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Kevin, I'm sure you're absolutely right about there being a future T2 re-release on Blu-ray. I seem to recall Van Ling (perhaps in a different thread than the one you just ready) mentioning that they had at least brought up the idea. It seems the biggest complication with T2 or any other Cameron title is that somewhere along the line, he was granted the right to approve whatever transfer was made for home video releases, which in general is a good thing... except that Cameron has been obsessively working on Avator since about 1976 and it's not going to be done until about 2149, so he's been unavailable to supervise and/or approve new transfers.

(Apparently Fox did an HD transfer of "The Abyss" three years ago, and that's still sitting around waiting for Cameron to look at it...by the time he does, the technology will have advanced enough that it'll be time for a new master...)

I haven't seen the disc firsthand yet, but this still seems like a solid release at a reasonable price. Since they were pretty much handcuffed in not being allowed to make a new transfer, and not given the time or budget to do much as far as completely new special features, it looks like the Skynet edition does a great job of presenting most of everything that's already out there at a higher quality than was previously available.

Perhaps more exciting (to me, at least) is the news that Lowry Digital recently did some work on the original Terminator film -- Van's got no idea when they're going to be able to start working on that Blu-ray, but that's one I'll be pretty excited about.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

I'm not sure I understand... you say you WERE able to play the movie with the firmware update? What do you mean about "running into that error every time", though?

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Oh, forget this.

I'm going to go back to Best Buy and demand a refund. I'm not going to jump through various hoops and mazes to get a friggin' movie to play. I'll wind up just buying the old BD of TERMINATOR 2 and sticking with that (even though I wanted the Extended Version). Or maybe I'll just stick with my old standard DVD in the silver case that has THREE versions of the movie.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

And that's why Jacob's comments about first gen players has made me nervous about this title now. Who needs the headaches?

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

But surely my player is not first generation? I waited until November 2008 to buy one. Granted, it might have been older, but I doubt THAT old. Up until this new T2 release my Sony has played everything - including other "difficult" titles like the reported Fox headaches.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

^ Joe: I would do the firmware update, there was one in late April. I used to have an S350, it is pretty easy to do over the internet. You will likely need it for another BD soon anyway. Sony is generally good in that they have the firmware updates *before* the BDs needing them are released. Unlike some others... Firmware updates seem to be a fact of life for all BD players, I guess as studios more fully exploit what BDLive etc. is capable of.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Nope. Yours isn't. But mine is. And if it's giving newer players problems...I'm wary that it might be even worse for the older players--if it's asking too much of them. Hopefully somebody out there with a first gen player will be a guinea pig and report in sometime.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

If it was a bigger studio, I'd say that was a possibility but what is Lion's Gate going to do? Not send them review discs of Saw VI or the next re-release of T2?

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

To the 'bits credit they have certainly gone the extra mile in trying to decipher all the possible reasons for all the fine image detail variation for the already innumerable BD releases of T2. To sum up the latest hypothesis, the differences between the fine image detail level in the Skynet and Geneon editions appears to be a function of bitrate and possibly encoding with the Geneon, and presumably the Optimum as well, coming out on top over the Skynet and certainly the original Lionsgate T2 release in terms of fine image detail. Their suposition also suggests that the Skynet edition's bitrate suffered at the hands of BD-Java overlays and seamless branching, which the Geneon disc does not have.

At the end of the day, I think the Skynet edition is a modest upgrade over the original Lionsgate edition and suitable for the majority of BD buyers that want to purchase the film, while the most 'hardcore' amongst the T2 fans are going to want to seek out the now OOP UK Optimum or Japan Geneon releases for their superior PQ.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Anyone know the bitrate on the original UK version?

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

I just tried out the Skynet edition on my Sony BDPS550 and the movie does play, but sheesh, it takes a long time to load. BTW, I had upgraded to the current firmware about 2 months ago. Not sure if there's a later one or not.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

One thing folks seem to have forgotten is that the 2003 1080P transfer of TERMINATOR 2 that has been the basis for all of these various HD releases was an anamorphic HD transfer. As per the liner notes on the "Extreme Edition" DVD (which was sourced from this same original master tape), the actual High-Definition transfer was not letterboxed, but rather the 2.35:1 image was "stretched" anamorphically to fill the entire 1080 X 1920 pixel real-estate. All of the consumer HD versions have been letterboxed High-Def, which means that the "anamorphic" master tape had to be "unsqueezed" and downconverted to a letterbox image. This downconversion may itself account for some of the variances in image quality between the various HD releases that we've seen.

Vincent

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

could someone please tell me the aspect ratios of the theatrical trailers on this br or maybe even post some screenshots?

thanks

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

My money is on Cyberdyne Systems having something to do with it.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

I only own the 2003 Extreme Edition, but I think I'm going to take a pass on this until Cameron can approve and supervise a definitive (haha) 1080p transfer that faithfully reproduces the Super35 source. If it's for the 20th Anniversary, then that's only two years away and I can happily wait. And while I admire Lionsgate taking advantage of Blu-Ray's capability, I'd prefer that the previous featurettes be available in a more complete, straightforward manner. Accessing them sounds like an unnecessary hassle.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Kevin,
Thanks for the review... 3 of 5 on movie?????????

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Even if you decide to return the disc, Joe, I would still advise performing the firmware update. It's quite simple to do -- I've done three, one via a burned CD image, and the last two via the Internet.

Your player is not outdated. The only thing the new model that replaced it this spring added was the on-board memory to eliminate the need to add a USB memory stick. Sony is still issuing updates for the player. I have not tried this new T2 disc on my player, though, since I'm not planning on buying it. My SD-DVD Extreme Edition will suffice until the next iteration of T2 comes out on BD.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

But, the screenshots clearly show....

Nevermind.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Cynicism doesn't have much use in a discussion like this, other than an excuse to denigrate others. I happen to have a little bit of knowledge of what may have precipitated Bill's taking a second, closer look at this disc. It absolutely was not Lionsgate, at least, it wasn't Lionsgate that started the conversation. Perhaps Bill talked to Lionsgate to get more detail on the process of mastering this new disc before posting his most recent piece on his site, but it was not Lionsgate nor anyone directly associated with producing this disc that initially spoke to Bill. I won't say anything beyond this due to personal confidences, and I probably shouldn't have said this much, but I don't like to see people getting a bad rap when they don't deserve it.

It is a very hard thing to admit a misjudgement, even harder in an environment like what surrounds these forums. Bill's latest article has and will cause him more grief and insults than anyone should have to put up with, and I'm sure he expected that when he decided to post his second thoughts on the T2 disc. It was a very professional thing he did. Kudos to him.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

That wasn't my intention; I've actually been a big supporter of Bill's and The Digital Bits since I began purchasing DVDs and throughout the format war. Additionally, I made it a point in this very thread to give them kudos for exploring the issue deeper when their comments of early yesterday or the day before, I cannot remember which, clearly flew in the face of what I and many others were seeing when comparing the Skynet release to the Geneon.

I will admit, I have become more leery of the 'bits lately because of their close association with blu-ray.com, a site which is too close to the studios for their own good in my opinion, but you're right in that's my own 'hang up'.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

the bdlive is now working on the t2 skynet edition.. it worked on both my ps3 and panasonic 60. however now when I bitstream DTS MA I am only getting 5.1 instead of 7.1 like I was getting the first day that I got it. not sure whats up with that. its when I am using the panasonic 60

Jacob

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

I also own the Sony BDP-S550 (latest firmware) and had trouble with the BD-Live content. It kept insisting that my network connection was not available. I gave up on it and focused on the movie instead. The new VC-1 encode and DTS-HD MA audio upgrade make it totally worth it for the price I paid (had existing credit at the store) even if the master is the same. There is a noticeable improvement in picture quality, though not dramatic. No signs of DNR.

The only sad thing is this should have been how the FIRST release on Blu-Ray appeared. I will now throw the original BD into the donation pile.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

I for one am 100 percent happy with this release and would like to thank Van Ling and everyone else responsible for this blu-ray release. I think that twenty dollars is a fine price to pay for such a marvelous presentation of a movie I love. Thanks!

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Well, Scott, I've decided to hold off on returning the BD for now and I've contacted Sony, and they should be sending me the firmware update in 7-10 days. Apparently I don't even have to worry about the memory stick unless I wish to be active with the internet (which I have no intention of doing).

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

I'm sorry, but if this disc isn't DNR'd, I don't know what the heck happened with the transfer! I was shocked to see how smooth/soft looking this film is. While the colors seem accurate, there is no fine detail.

Audio was improved but it's not going to sound like a modern soundtrack.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

The transfer, as in, film-to-tape transfer, is actually relatively old. It was done originally for one of the DVD special editions. The mastering that was done for this latest Blu-ray has not be artificially sharpened. Previous versions have been. What has been done is quite a lot of dirt and scratch removal along with some "tweaking" of color and, it appears, contrast and black level.

I consider this new Blu-ray the best this film has ever looked on video, overall.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Joe, you can update your firmware by downloading the firmware, burning it to a CD and inserting it into your player. The instructions for the Sony BDP-S550 can be found HERE. They give instructions for checking your current firmware version first.

Of course, if you feel uneasy about doing it, you should wait for that disc. I do not have a Sony player, but I have updated the firmware for a couple of HD DVD players and a couple of Blu-ray players. The process is nearly always the same, and I have never connected my Blu-ray to the internet.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

.......and you can also use a flash drive if your Blu-ray player has inputs for it. Download from the site onto the drive then plug drive into player and start the firmware update. Easy as that.

Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: T2 Judgment Day - Skynet Edition

Unfortunately, the Sony BDP-S350 does not support this option. The only choices for updating the firmware are a CD and network connection.