Stargate: SG1....recut remastered re-imagined?

Stargate SG-1 DVD news: Announcement for Stargate SG-1 - Children of the Gods: The Final Cut | TVShowsOnDVD.com That sounds very interesting.

Re: Stargate: SG1....recut remastered re-imagined?

That's weird. I wouldn't be surprised if the nudity is removed. For now, as big a fan of the series as I am, I'm going to wait to see why I need this.

Re: Stargate: SG1....recut remastered re-imagined?

Greg I completely agree with you. Still has me curious, though. What's different: visual effects, alternate takes, characters, etc, etc? Will this be the first in a complete series remaster and/or overhaul? Or, has something been changed in this particular pilot movie that will affect an upcoming feature film release? When it comes to SG:1 I anticipate great things. They haven't let me down yet.

Re: Stargate: SG1....recut remastered re-imagined?

I think it's been about a year now since Brad Wright first talked about the new version of "Children of the Gods" in an interview. Nice to finally have a real date for it.

IIRC, it was said that they went back to the original footage and re-cut the thing from scratch, using sometimes different takes, different editing, etc - as well as reportedly having the cast doing some new ADR and re-scoring it. While I believe there will be some added stuff, some stuff that wasn't so good was taken out (yes - Sha're's nude scene will be gone) and supposedly the running time will actually be shorter than the original cut.

Personally, I always thought the pilot could have been better so I am curious to see what this will be like.

I believe this is out now.  Anyone get it?  What's the verdict?

I think this is a bad idea ... I don't about you guys, I prefer the original. Only reason they released this is because Brad Wright has been upset all this time that the first episode of the series contains nudity. So, what do they do? Let's add some deleted scenes into the episode and call it an original release. Why would I want two copies of the same episode? 

I'm sorry, but having followed this thing since Wright first began talking about it, I have to say that you couldn't be more wrong. First of all, the nudity is just one of the many things he wanted to fix (it should be noted, though, that he never wanted that in the episode in the first place, it was forced upon him by Showtime who was the original broadcaster of the series).

Second, it's not just the same episode with a few deleted scenes added. There are a bunch of lines of dialogue reinserted that were missing from the old cut, and a few entire scenes (Example: many new shots of Teal'c throughout, and new dialogue between him and SG-1 all helping to explain his sudden turn which really seemed to come more out of the blue originally). There are also a bunch of lines and stuff that have been cut in this version - so much so that the new cut is actually significantly shorter than the original. Examples would be, awkward dialogue (like Carter's infamously horrible "reproductive organs" speech) or scenes that just went on too long (like the opening shootout in the gate room - still there, but much shorter, as it should have been all along).

Many scenes use different takes and/or angles, and the editing is all-around different. Most of the effects have been upgraded, the climactic battle on Chulak has been beefed up, new ADR has been done (most notably, Teal'c has been re-voiced throughout the entire thing - in the original, some line deliveries sounded decidedly un-Teal'c like) and of course we get to hear the full actual score for the episode for the first time (the original had much of it replaced by music taken directly from the original Stargate movie at the request of studio execs, which stuck out like a sore thumb).

It's still the same story and all, but it's an entirely new cut, and one that IMO is superior to the original - much tighter and more movie like than the old cut (though cheap production values still shine through, it must be said).

So - why would you want to own two copies of the same episode? I guess you wouldn't. But for a die-hard fan like me, this is a must-have. I suppose it'll just be up to each individual to decide if the aforementioned changes justify the cost of a new DVD.

Personally, I find that the removal of "that line" in Carter's introduction scene alone is worth the price.

Sounds good.  Didn't Sam reference that line later in the series, though?  Maybe it was in Moebius?  I think it was used to make fun of the line.  At any rate, I'm gonna get this DVD soon.

I remember seeing the nudity. This was due to the fact that the series originally aired on Showtime.

The Season 1 boxed set contains the original "nude" scene and that's the only one I need. I think it's despicable that Brad Wright would actually want to remove footage. You don't remove footage just to add other footage. I wouldn't watch the new version even if someone gave me a copy for free.

Maybe instead of getting all excited about the nude scene, he should just add the new footage without deleting any of the footage already in that episode.

You've never heard of director's cuts that remove footage put in at the insistence of the studio that the director never wanted?  Once he gets more control, out the offending scene goes.  It's hardly despicable in any case.  As you've said, the original version is on DVD.  Nobody has to buy this one or even take it if offered it for free.

So you don't really know what you're talking about, then. And as I already tried to explain, he didn't "remove footage just to add other footage". He could have had it include everything that was ever shot if he wanted to, he chose to remove some footage (NOT just the nudity) because it would make for a better version. "More footage" doesn't always equal "better movie"! You don't have to like the new version or even watch it, but it seems to me you don't really even know what you're criticizing. "Despicable"? Give me a break.

BTW - for the record, the "nude scene" is still there. It's just been edited differently, the same way the entire movie has been, in this case resulting in less explicit shots. So don't try telling me that anything of importance to the plot has been lost by the editing in this scene - the only difference is that in this version they don't actually show the woman's breasts and pubes. FWIW, 99% of the fan complaints I've seen about this re-cut has been from people who didn't even notice the numerous differences between the two cuts that contributed to making the new version far more tight and well paced and overall just plain better, but were apparently deeply shocked that "OMG NOO THEY CUT OUT TEH BOOBIES!". If that is where your priorities lie, then you absolutely should pass on the new cut.

Oh, I can see it now ... Brad Wright is going to release director's cut releases of every single episode. It's not very intelligent to do this in the first place. This is just another effort to get fans to double dip ... 

Interesting that this release is getting such outrage. Usually when a director's cut comes out it gets the royal treatment by fans or just flat out ignored by those not interested. Take Blade Runner for example.

I'm just curious Mark, based on your comments you have not seen the episode so why comment on it at all? It would be easier to try to understand your disdain for this release if you had actually seen it and provided commentary on why it is not as good as the original. But to show such contempt without ever seeing it makes no sense, and if you don't want to see it, that is fine but just don't expect people to take such comments seriously.

As mentioned before, there are many times director's cuts actually remove or shorten scenes when putting in new scenes to create a tighter story or to alleviate conflicts between scenes. Personally, based on the style of the rest of the shows the first episode does feel a little out of place with the nudity. I'm not adverse to it, shows like Rome have plenty of nudity and violence but it is consistent with the style throughout. Where in Stargate it feels out of place after you get a feel for the series as it continues.

Uh, sure. The new cut of Children of the Gods has been in the works for about a year and a half, so if your guess is correct instead of hilariously absurd then I estimate we should have a complete collection of SG-1 "final cuts" in about 160 years. Can't wait!

Well, like I said, I have every season set of Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis (Season 5, just ordered from Amazon for $22). I have no need to double dip for this Director's Cut. Perhaps, if Brad Wright had done it right the first time then there wouldn't be any need for this new release.

If you ask me, MGM should give a copy of that away for free to everyone who bought the season sets. 

As has already been explained in this thread, Showtime requested the nudity. Wright *never* wanted it in the movie.

FWIW, I viewed the "Final Cut" this morning and thought it was a *huge* improvement over the original version of the pilot.  Practically all of the "Gate Effects" have been re-done.  The "puddles" now look more like they did in the latter seasons.  There are new matte paintings in stragegic locations.  There are more ships in the final battle.  A few of the scenes have been re-ordered (for clarity) and different takes have been used in various scenes.  (Wright explained on the commentary track that the film stock used on one of the cameras for a major location shoot exhibited a scratch down the middle of the frame.  None of the takes filmed by that camera on that day could be used in the original pilot.   Now they can be since the scratch can easily be removed digitally.)     Finally, the A/V quality is a *huge* improvement over the pilot as presented on the Season 1 set.  That transfer apeared extremely grainy and provided just a DD 2.0 surround track.  The "Final Cut" video now looks pristine and the provided audio is DD 5.1.  

As a Stargate fan I'm extremely happy to have the "Final Cut" in my collection.

That could be said for every director's cut that has every been released. So you must feel the same disdain for every director that has ever released one.  In addition, I would suspect you wouldn't have any director's cuts of any kind in your collection feeling that it should be given free to anyone that has the original release, and I have yet to see this happen.

No, it's not that.

I have nothing but total disrespect for every director and every studio who releases a director's cut edition of a movie after having previously released the movie just months or years before.

When DVD's were originally released, it was seen by many entertainment fans as a new video media that would allow director's and studios to re-incorporate deleted scenes and other material back into the movie so that movie fans could enjoy the entire video. Unfortunately, the directors and studios saw the DVD media as a way to force consumers to "double dip," forcing fans to buy two copies of the same movie.

That's the reason why I have a lack of respect when they do something like this.

And how does this apply here, when the new cut was made twelve years later?? Clearly, they didn't plan to create this new cut when the original cut was first made available. So are we to understand it was wrong of them to release this cut on DVD at all simply because the old version already exists on DVD?

That's fine, I can understand that. I was just trying to see if it was just related to this product and/or director. But I can see now that it is not.  And for the record, I agree that many unrated, specal editions, ultimate and director cuts are directly associated with an attempt to cash in on what is essentially the same old product repackaged in an attempt to get consumers to double and triple dip on their purchases.

However, I also believe there are some that come out with more legitimate goals to improve upon the product. In some cases, because a director lacked the control to do it the way they intended the first time, they ran out of time or funds, or because the length would have been difficult in a theater setting but more condusive to viewing in a home environment and it takes additonal time to get that ready for DVD.

So while your point is valid I think there are exceptions. For example, I prefer the new cut of "The Natural" where it is not based on just sequential events in his life like the original but instead starts out with him on the train in the current day with flashbacks to what happened to get him to where he is now. The director remarked that all the footage was there but to meet certain studios pressure he ran out of time.

Without having seen it I can't really say where this revised Stargate first episode stands.

Having seen it now I feel this this new version of Children of the Gods works very well. There arent huge changes but the film does just seem to flow better. Improved effects are good but its the edits and cuts that work much better this time. Redubbing Tealc was a good idea and I could care less abou the nudity removal - it added nothing to the scene in the first place.
The biggest flaw with the original cut was the sudden transformation of Tealc to switch his allegiance to the SG1 team. Clearly they thought so too as they have added shots of Tealc during the show to try and show him more conflicted about what he is doing in the build-up to his decision. It helps a little though unless they actually shot new footage its always going to seem a little odd. (and they overdid it a little bit with Tealc shaking his head at what he is watching just to be sure you understood he isnt happy )
Edited by Simon Massey - 8/2/2009 at 12:46 pm GMT

I disagree - the intent of DVDs were to provide movie fans with films in the best quality available at the time. Director's cuts and extended editions were very limited at the time - Blade Runner, Aliens, Terminator 2, The Abyss, Brazil and the Star Wars films were about the only films I can thing of at the time of the introduction of DVD - Im sure there were more but not compared to today. Deleted scenes go back to the time of laserdiscs and they were seen more as curios or a way into understanding the editing process that goes into removing scenes.
 
The problem is incorporating the entire video is not always a good thing. Although I prefer the Extended Version of Aliens, equally I can see the flaws in adding it to. I'd bet few would argue though that the re-cut of Blade Runner isnt much better than the theatrical version and that involved the removal of footage. To me the best example of a scene that should never have been added is the Jabba The Hut scene in Star Wars - A New Hope. It adds nothing to the film as the information given is the same as in the Greedo scene and even in the context of the saga is a waste of time - we already know who Jabba and Boba Fett are from Episode I and II and why include them when they do nothing else in the film and are irrelevant to the plot ? 

Rather than simply dismiss every director's cut or extended version, its worth checking it out first or looking at the circumstances surrounding the release. These days its pretty obvious which extended versions are simply studios trying to get us to buy the product again and which versions are released for additional reasons. Im sure the studio sees the recut of Children of the Gods as a chance to cash-in but equally the director had given valid reasons for the changes too IMO. At least you dont have to buy the entire Season 1 again to watch it.

Look, I think you're best with both.  As to those that say "you can't remove footage, that's no good"  I have one example for you that pretty well showcases this:

Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"


There were a TON of things in that film HE DID NOT WANT, like the ending.  So, when people had an option to see it the way he wanted, they lept for it, despite the fact it meant a lot of scens were removed or changed.

Just the way it is. 

I'm a fan of the series, and I appreciate the work done on the first episode as it aired.  But I have no problem with the director saying "I had originally filmed a bunch of scenes that never made it in, and then had some scenes I didn't want inserted into the cut to make it racy.. here's the way I thought it should flow"