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Noob question: help

#1
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4/21/09 at 6:34am
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Hi all,

I have a Sony 55" 1080i RPTV. I currently use an Oppo 971, upconverting to 1080i.

If I went with BR, would I see any difference in quality? Bottom line: is it worth it to jump on the bandwagon?

Thanks in advance.

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#2
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4/21/09 at 7:14am
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Re: Noob question: help

Yes
¡Time is not my master!
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#3
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4/21/09 at 9:50am
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Re: Noob question: help

Most definitely YES
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#4
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4/21/09 at 10:54am
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Re: Noob question: help

Thanks for the responses.

So, I will see results even though my TV is not 1080p?

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#5
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4/21/09 at 11:51am
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Re: Noob question: help

What is your viewing distance? As long as you don't sit too far away, you will definitely be able to tell the difference between Blu-ray and upconverted DVD on a 1080i or 720p TV. Plus, the audio is better. For that matter, even if you sat so far away that you couldn't "see" the extra resolution, Blu-ray discs have much fewer artifacts.

Brian

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#6
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4/21/09 at 12:32pm
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McHale
What is your viewing distance? As long as you don't sit too far away, you will definitely be able to tell the difference between Blu-ray and upconverted DVD on a 1080i or 720p TV. Plus, the audio is better. For that matter, even if you sat so far away that you couldn't "see" the extra resolution, Blu-ray discs have much fewer artifacts.

I sit about 10 feet away.

One more thing:

My TV does not have an HDMI input. It's DVI. Will an adapter affect the audio or PQ in a way that the human eye or ear can discern?

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#7
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4/21/09 at 1:19pm
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Re: Noob question: help

From 10' away on a 55" TV you should definitely be able to see the extra resolution (unless you have bad eyesight). Even though your set is 1080i, that's still quite a bit more resolution than 480p.

I don't think DVI has any effect on the quality of the video signal (I don't have any experience with DVI, but it's my understanding that it's basically the same as HDMI without the audio). Are you going to be using your TV or a receiver for audio? If a receiver, is it HDMI-capable?

Brian

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#8
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4/21/09 at 5:40pm
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Re: Noob question: help

So long as the display is HDCP compliant, the DVI connection will deliver the video just like an HDMI connection. HDMI also provides audio, something that DVI does not do.
¡Time is not my master!
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#9
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4/21/09 at 6:07pm
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Re: Noob question: help

There are inexpensive cables and connectors doing the "conversion" (simple, because the video part of HDMI = DVI).

Here are some connectors:

HDMI-F/DVI-M @ $9.72

HDMI-F/DVI-M @ $4.95

HDMI-F/DVI-M @ $1.09


Cees
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#10
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4/21/09 at 6:27pm
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Re: Noob question: help

If your DVI doesn't work, you can always hook it up the old fashion way w/ 1080i component video -- unless your TV or player of choice somehow doesn't provide that, which seems highly unlikely to me.

I had been running my PS3 via 1080i component into my old 53" Panny CRT RPTV for over a year before upgrading my display to a Sammy 61" DLP RPTV. And yeah, quality BDs (and quality HD broadcasts in general) did look a good deal better than most DVDs on that old setup from 9-10ft away. Only certain reference quality DVDs actually come all that close to quality BDs on that old setup, but even then, the colors are rarely as convincing as quality BDs. If you have a good eye for colors, you should see substantial improvement in that aspect of the PQ -- it's not just about the pixel count.

And if your display is actually a fixed pixel digital RPTV, not CRT, you should probably see more benefit than I did from my CRT one. I've briefly tried running the old 1080i component output (instead of 1080p HDMI) to my current 61" DLP, and there is hardly any PQ diff at all in my limited experience w/ it -- essentially none that I noticed in normal viewing. And both connections look quite a bit better on the DLP RPTV than on my old CRT RPTV (except maybe for black level), which in turn looked substantially better than DVDs in most cases.

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

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#11
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4/22/09 at 4:57am
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Re: Noob question: help

Thanks one and all for your repsonses. I'm jumping on the bandwagon!

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#12
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4/22/09 at 6:33am
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Re: Noob question: help

Welcome, Brett!

One other point. Do you want your audio to go to your TV set, or do you have a different setup for that?
In both cases it won't be very difficult.


Cees
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#13
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4/22/09 at 7:53am
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Welcome, Brett!

One other point. Do you want your audio to go to your TV set, or do you have a different setup for that?
In both cases it won't be very difficult.


Cees

I use an Onkyo 5.1 HT. It does not have HDMI input. I'll probably upgrade the receiver and get 2 more surrounds.

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#14
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4/22/09 at 8:02am
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Re: Noob question: help

If your Onkyo happens to have analog inputs (5.1 or 7.1), you could even choose a BD-player capable of doing all the audio decoding and outputting over analog channels. Replacing the receiver wouldn't be necessary (at least not immediately).


Cees
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#15
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4/22/09 at 9:18am
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
If your Onkyo happens to have analog inputs (5.1 or 7.1), you could even choose a BD-player capable of doing all the audio decoding and outputting over analog channels. Replacing the receiver wouldn't be necessary (at least not immediately).


Cees

How would that impact the sound quality?

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#16
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4/22/09 at 9:42am
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Re: Noob question: help

Blu-ray Discs have the capability to do lossless audio. However, to take advantage of it, you either need an HDMI-capable receiver or 5.1/7.1 analog inputs. If you have the former, you can either have the player or the receiver do the decoding of the lossless codecs. If you have the latter, the player can decode the lossless codecs and output via analog.

Don't worry if you don't have HDMI or analog inputs, though. The lossy codecs (regular DD or DTS) are better on Blu-ray than DVD (higher bitrates).

Brian

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#17
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4/22/09 at 10:40am
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McHale
Blu-ray Discs have the capability to do lossless audio. However, to take advantage of it, you either need an HDMI-capable receiver or 5.1/7.1 analog inputs. If you have the former, you can either have the player or the receiver do the decoding of the lossless codecs. If you have the latter, the player can decode the lossless codecs and output via analog.

Don't worry if you don't have HDMI or analog inputs, though. The lossy codecs (regular DD or DTS) are better on Blu-ray than DVD (higher bitrates).

Gotcha. Thanks so much.

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#18
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4/22/09 at 10:57am
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Re: Noob question: help

Brett,

If you can use analog pre-proc inputs, the sound quality is among the very best there is. There even are one or two advantages having the player do the decoding.

(Don't forget that all digitized audio must be converted to analog finally before it can be sent to the power amps. That's exactly what happens if your receiver has analogs in.)


Cees
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#19
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4/22/09 at 2:00pm
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Brett,

If you can use analog pre-proc inputs, the sound quality is among the very best there is. There even are one or two advantages having the player do the decoding.

(Don't forget that all digitized audio must be converted to analog finally before it can be sent to the power amps. That's exactly what happens if your receiver has analogs in.)


Cees

Cees,

What are analog pre-proc inputs? My receiver does have analogs in and I want the best.

-Brett

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#20
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4/22/09 at 3:50pm
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Re: Noob question: help

There is a caveat w/ using the 5.1 analog input of most such receivers though. They generally do not do much, if any, processing to the analog audio in that setup (vs plain stereo ones), so you might lose control of things like bass management, speaker distance/delay, room tuning/EQ, etc. In that case, you'll probably want to get a player than can do (at least some of) those things before pumping the analog audio out.

Personally, I think you're best off just upgrading the receiver rather than restricting yourself to a handful of (more expensive) player choices that provide full surround analog out. If your budget is tight, you might not even need to go for a fully decoding receiver -- you really only need one that can handle multichannel PCM via HDMI (and then just let the player decode and output that instead). In fact, that's what many of us do (even if we have fully capable receivers/preprocessors) since certain players like the PS3 can only output some/all of the HD audio formats as decoded M-PCM via HDMI *plus* (like Cees mentioned) there are certain advantages to letting the player do the decoding (eg. for features like PiP commentaries, etc).

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

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#21
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4/22/09 at 4:24pm
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Re: Noob question: help

My head is spinning. I want a BD player and I can't upgrade the receiver or buy other components right now.

Can I just use coaxial for the sound?

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#22
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4/23/09 at 12:19am
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Re: Noob question: help

Brett,

Yes you can.
And if you can't afford to upgrade the receiver right now, using the coax is one of the choices. But you won't be able to enjoy the full benefits of the new audio codecs that way.

Another choice, as said, is using the analogs. I'm sorry to have used the confusing term "pre-proc" in connection with that. (Technically they're situated just before the pre-processor in one view, but it could also be argued that they're behind it. )
This way you will be able to fully use the new codecs, because the player will decode the streams and send the result to the analogs.

Just buy a BD player having analogs out and you may decide to upgrade your receiver much later. Trust me: it's precisely what I do as well.


Cees
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#23
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4/23/09 at 7:02am
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
Brett,

Yes you can.
And if you can't afford to upgrade the receiver right now, using the coax is one of the choices. But you won't be able to enjoy the full benefits of the new audio codecs that way.

Another choice, as said, is using the analogs. I'm sorry to have used the confusing term "pre-proc" in connection with that. (Technically they're situated just before the pre-processor in one view, but it could also be argued that they're behind it. )
This way you will be able to fully use the new codecs, because the player will decode the streams and send the result to the analogs.

Just buy a BD player having analogs out and you may decide to upgrade your receiver much later. Trust me: it's precisely what I do as well.


Cees

My reciever has the 5.1 inputs. Can I use them without a pre-proc? Will the player decode them?

What kind of connectors do the 5.1 outs/ins utilize? RCA style? I've never used them before.

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#24
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4/23/09 at 8:50am
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Re: Noob question: help

The 5.1 analog inputs will almost certainly use RCA cables. If you have some red/white RCA cables lying about, they should work fine. For 5.1, you'll need to connect 6 RCA outputs on the player to the 6 RCA inputs on the receiver.

I'd recommend taking a look at the new Panasonic BD80, which I'm pretty sure has analog outputs. It's a little more complicated setting up the player to use the analog outputs, but you will get better sound that way (with the player decoding the new codecs).

I know that AVS Forum has a thread on the BD60/BD80 (the BD60 is similar, but doesn't have 5.1/7.1 analog outs) . If you're interested in the BD80, that would be an excellent place to find out all about the player and how to set it up.

Brian

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#25
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4/23/09 at 10:05am
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McHale
The 5.1 analog inputs will almost certainly use RCA cables. If you have some red/white RCA cables lying about, they should work fine. For 5.1, you'll need to connect 6 RCA outputs on the player to the 6 RCA inputs on the receiver.

I'd recommend taking a look at the new Panasonic BD80, which I'm pretty sure has analog outputs. It's a little more complicated setting up the player to use the analog outputs, but you will get better sound that way (with the player decoding the new codecs).

I know that AVS Forum has a thread on the BD60/BD80 (the BD60 is similar, but doesn't have 5.1/7.1 analog outs) . If you're interested in the BD80, that would be an excellent place to find out all about the player and how to set it up.

Thanks for the info. I'll look into it.

-Brett

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#26
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4/23/09 at 2:42pm
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett M
My receiver has the 5.1 inputs. Can I use them without a pre-proc? Will the player decode them?

What kind of connectors do the 5.1 outs/ins utilize? RCA style?
What Brian said. Yes (if you choose the right player) and Yes (if you choose the right player) and Yes.


Cees
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#27
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4/24/09 at 1:48am
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Re: Noob question: help

The biggest drawback to owning a blu-ray player is that everything not blu will look like crap.
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#28
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4/24/09 at 4:15am
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shad R
The biggest drawback to owning a blu-ray player is that everything not blu will look like crap.

Or sound like crap.

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#29
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4/24/09 at 11:31am
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Re: Noob question: help

As far as the ethernet cable goes -- any recommendations?

Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it meant to roast in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.

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#30
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4/24/09 at 2:46pm
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Re: Noob question: help

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett_M
As far as the ethernet cable goes -- any recommendations?

Maybe consider getting a wireless bridge for your player (or converting a wireless print server unit to do the same job), assuming you already have a wireless router set up. That's what some folks are doing. But if you don't care about BD-Live and such things and only need the internet access for firmware updates, then you can probably just temporarily move the player whenever you need an update.

Many others of us just use the PS3's built-in WiFi support for that.

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

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