Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

I am looking for a budget blu ray player but am not sure if it will really be an improvement over regular dvd because I my 50" Panasonic is only 720p. Will this plasma tv be ok? If so can anybody suggest a modestly priced player. My budget is 200-300. Thanks...

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Don't worry about your tv being only 720p, I have a 50" 720p Samsung plasma and I can't stand watching dvd's anymore, it's that much of a difference. As far as players go, it depends on if you want the new HD audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio) decoded on the player or on your receiver I guess. All of the players will look great on video quality. If you can find a Panasonic DMP-BD35 or 55 in your budget I'd do that, otherwise you can wait for it's replacement to come out in a few months. That, or a Sony BDP-S350 or 550 should do the trick.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

720p is fine for BluRay. I seriously recommend the PS3 over any stand alone decks for all the reasons listed in the big thread:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...available.html

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Check out this chart to see if you’ll be able to discern the difference between DVD and BD for your TV size and viewing distance:

1080p charted: Viewing distance to screen size - Engadget HD

If you’re sitting 15’ away from a 50” TV, you won’t be gaining any advantages from the extra resolution. However, any closer than that and you should be able to see some advantages.

I would highly recommend the Panasonic BD35 (BD55 if you need 7.1 analog audio outputs), though they can be hard to find (I've heard Costco has them). The replacement BD60/BD80 (due out in April, I believe) should be a good choice if you can wait a couple of months.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

That chart is for determining if there will be any advantage to using a 1080p vs 720p set at 15 feet with a 50" display, not if there is any advantage to BD over DVD on a 50" 720p set at 15 feet.

I sell tvs at Sears. We have 2 Panasonic plasmas, both 50" but one 720p and the other 1080p on display, one above the other and regularly back my customers up 12 feet or so and ask if they see any advantage to the 1080 set--the vast majority don't. As for BD vs DVD at 15 feet or so on a 50" 720p plasma I've seen a significant improvement for BD at a customer's home. They were glad they'd spent the money on the BD player instead of on the extra cost of a 1080p set.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Pixel count is not the only advantage of BD. There's also higher color fidelity, better video compression quality, typically less overprocessing of the transfer, and better sound quality (in very many cases). And as these formats evolve, it's also possible that the studios might eventually dumb down DVD transfer quality some more to give BD more of an advantage in order to command the price premium *IF* DVD does stick around for the long haul. I certainly wouldn't bet against the studios going back to using heavily compressed, single-layer discs as the norm for DVD at some point.

Also, if you like to buy (at least some of) your movies, not just rent, it's probably better to buy a quality BD at a modest premium (when that's the case) so you *can* enjoy the better quality even more if/when you get a bigger display or sit closer (and/or will upgrade your sound system).

_Man_

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

I don’t understand how you can make this statement. The top area of the chart states “480p, 720p, 1080p, 1440p all appear to be equivalent at these ‘far’ viewing distances”. Since DVD is 480p and BD can be 720p or 1080p, this means that BD and DVD will look the same (presuming quality of transfer is relatively equivalent) if your TV size and viewing distance put you in this field. So, if you have a 50” TV, you will not be able to discern the difference between DVD and BD if you sit further than about 15’ from the TV.

According to the chart, if you sit closer than 15’ from a 50” TV (say 12’ or 13’), you will start to be able to discern some of the benefits of 720p, meaning that you will indeed be able to benefit from BD over DVD.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Do you have a blu-ray player? I don't care what the chart says, even at 15' away on my 50" 720p set I see a huge difference in blu-ray. Resolution isn't the only thing you notice on blu-ray.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Yes, I do have a Blu-ray player.

Obviously, the chart isn't going to be 100% foolproof. For instance, everybody's eyesight is going to be different. I don’t see where that chart addresses eyesight; it probably assumes 20/20. And I understand that BDs are often better transfers with fewer artifacts.

However, the chart probably is a pretty good start for people who are trying to determine if they should make the jump from DVD to BD. If you have a 46” TV and watch it from 15 feet, it is unlikely you will benefit from the extra resolution that BD has to offer. If you sit 10 feet from a 50” TV (whether 720p or 1080p), you will most likely be able to tell the difference and it might be time to make the transition.

Yes, the chart only addresses resolution. But that is one of the biggest advantages BD has over DVD. If you can’t tell the difference between 480p and 720p or 1080p on your TV at your viewing distances, there’s a good chance (not a guarantee) that you really won’t be able to appreciate the difference between BD and DVD, particularly when you take into account the present cost of software and hardware and the fact that the technology is still maturing.

If you can see a “huge difference” between Blu-ray and DVD from 15’ on a 50” TV, I would suggest that one of the following is true:

1. The DVD is not a very good one (the best DVDs will look like HD unless you sit close enough to see the higher resolution, if the upconversion is handled well).
2. Your DVD/BD player or TV is doing a poor job of upconverting SD to HD (pretty common, actually).
3. You have really good eyesight (obviously, someone with 20/10 eyesight will be able to distinguish finer details than someone with 20/20 or 20/30).
4. You are experiencing the placebo effect (“it cost more, it’s better, I can see a huge difference”).

One other thing for people who are considering buying a Blu-ray player, but sit in that area where the chart indicates you won’t be able to tell the difference between the different resolutions: you will find it difficult to read many of the BD menus. A lot of BDs are designed assuming you sit close to a large TV. Because the resolution is higher, they can use smaller font sizes and fit more choices on a single menu. Quite a few of these menus are difficult to read at 11 or 12 feet on my 50” set. I can’t imagine trying to read them from 15’.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

I would suggest considering it this way instead.

If you *do* actually see some deficiencies w/ DVD in your current setup, then chances are very good that you'll see solid improvements w/ BD. If you do *not* notice anything wrong at all w/ DVD, then maybe you're better off just staying content w/ what you have now, especially if you don't tend to buy movies to own (and wouldn't be putting lots of $$$ toward the media itself).

It'd probably also help if you spend some time watching HD content on your current setup to see what you might be missing, eg. OTA HD channels, premium HD channels on cable/sat, etc. If you have a friend w/ a BD player, see if you can borrow it (along w/ some good BDs) or at least go over to his/her place and watch some good BDs from a similar screen-size-to-viewing-distance ratio.

IMHO, the extra color fidelity and better compression quality can be just as important (if not more so) as the higher final pixel count output. Remember, that chart assumes that compression quality and color fidelity is *not* a factor at all -- it's talking about what you perceive from the light being output from the display, not about what's coming off the original video source. If DVD uses lossless compressed video w/ same color fidelity as BD, then I'll agree you shouldn't see any noticeable improvement from BD provided both versions come from the master. But DVD video is nowhere near lossless. To get lossless 480p video, you'd probably need an order of magnitude higher bandwidth and storage space (more along the lines of a BD50 disc and maxing out the bandwidth that BD offers).

_Man_

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Thanks for the suggestions/comments guys. I want a blu ray palyer not just for the enhanced picture quality but don't they provide better audio too? Also I have been told blu ray can play more formats. ie: dvd-r, dvd-rw, cd-r, cd-rw. I hope I am not mistaken here. Now I just have to decided if I want to spend 200 for the blu ray or 400 for the ps3. I have been thinking about getting a gaming console for a while now.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

BluRay can provide better audio, but you must have the proper equipment to take advantage of it. BluRay has two lossless audio formats -- Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD Master -- that need to be decoded either by your receiver (via an HDMI connection) or in the player (passing the audio to your receiver via 5.1 or 7.1 analog channels).

If your receiver does not currently provide Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD MA decoding, but does have 5.1 or 7.1 multi-channel analog inputs, then you can spend a little more on a BluRay player and get a model such as the Sony BDP-S550 or Panasonic BD-55, which perform the decoding and have multi-channel analog outputs. These models are generally $75 - $100 more than the corresponding models without this feature.

BTW, the PS3 does not have multi-channel analog outputs.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Even if you don't have the ability to playback the lossless formats, you'll still benefit from the typically higher bitrates used on the lossy tracks. In particular, you're more likely to get a BD that comes w/ a 1.5Mbps DTS (core) track than a DVD w/ anything better than a 364Kbps(?) DD track since roughly 1/2 of the studios are using DTS for all their BD releases at this point while you'll rarely come across DVDs w/ anything more than 364Kbps DD.

I'm not suggesting that's a huge benefit of course, but it's there nonetheless and can be noticeable.

_Man_

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Virtually all DVDs use 448kbps these days for Dolby Digital (5.1).

On Blu-ray you will normally get (using S/PDIF):

DTS: 1509kbps vs 754kbps (typical on DVD)
Dolby Digital: 640kbps vs 448kbps (typical on DVD)

Adam

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Hmmm... Maybe it's just that I haven't been buying a lot of recent DVDs, but that is not my impression at all for a lot of DVDs released before these past couple years. I'm not talking about the blockbuster popcorn flix though.

Is there a good resource for quickly finding titles w/ 448Kbps tracks vs 364Kbps? Just wondering though it might not really matter ...

_Man_

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

My personal experience is with a 60" 1080p Sony KDS60A2000 LCOS rear projection set using a PS3 and Toshiba HDA3 HD-DVD player all connected thru a Pioneer VSX-82TSX receiver via HDMI, viewed from a 14 ft distance.

A very well done dvd transfer looks perfectly acceptable using either player. A BD or HD-DVD of the same title is noticeably better. I have viewed Gladiator both on standard dvd and on DirecTV compressed HBO-HD and saw little difference, but BD looks much better than HBO-HD.

My brother-in-law recently purchased Panasonic's entry-level 50" "720p" (actually 768x1366) Plasma and a Sylvania BD player. He has DirecTV HD. I order pq is worst, but still acceptable, on non-HD DirecTV channels, followed by standard dvd, DirecTV HD, and BD in ascending order.

Re: Suggestions on Blu Ray Players

Thanks All. I ended up with a ps3. Now I just need to figure out the easiest way to connect everything.


Steve your brother seems to have a very similar set up to mine. Maybe you can tell me the best way to connect everything. I have the following:

Panasonic 50" 720p plasma
Onkyo 5100 7.1 surround sound
HD DVR/Cable box
PS3

Currently the plasma is connected via hdmi to the dvr.
The dvr is connected to the receiver via optical
The ps3 is connected to the plasma via hdmi with the audio connected to the receiver via optical

The set up sounds and looks great but I have to play with 3 different remotes to switch between sources. Is there an easier way to configure everything?

Thanks.