THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

They couldn't afford to change the credits (again). They'd already paid Heyes. So (to them) what's the difference between Heyes and stock cues? Neither flavor of music was composed for the show, so why not leave Heyes in?

Just speculation.

But I think the answer is probably "H."

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Sorry, Gary but that's what I think.

For what it's worth, my guess is that someone is close to answer but I don't if anyone has hit it exactly (or it's letter H like Carab said )

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Exactly. Quit whining while you're ahead, people. You're lucky CBS did this.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

No problem, Travis. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just thought the outright dismissal of most of the options was a little strong considering the Burlingame article, that's all. You may very well be right. I hope you are, to be honest. I'd much rather believe CBS/P's hands were kinda tied. That would make the decision more palatable, just not ideal. But after the first blunder I just can't automatically give them the benefit of the doubt.

Gary "I really would like to believe they had no choice - that would be understandable" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I think it's possible to be appreciative to CBS/P while still wanting the missing CBS cues. At least that's the stance I've consistently tried to take in my posts. It doesn't have to be all one or all the other (either like the set or bash it and CBS/P along with it), though some people seem to think they have to take a side.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

On 02/24/2009, Jim Quirk said:

I have to respectfully disagree (strongly) with Mr. Jim Quirk's above-quoted assessment of CBS/Paramount's actions and motives behind providing a Fugitive Season 2, Volume 1 replacement disc program.

CBS/Paramount didn't have to do a damn thing. They could have just sat on their hands and ignored the fans who were outraged at the butchered Heyes-heavy version of S2V1.

And from what I've been reading on this forum, it would seem as though almost all Fuge fans were of the opinion (prior to February 17, 2009) that CBS/Paramount would, indeed, be sitting on their hands forever and would do nothing to rectify (even partially) the S2V1 music fiasco.

But, instead, CBS/P listened to the fans and took action by offering up free replacement discs that include a vast majority of the original Fugitive music restored, with approximately "80%" of the original underscore being put back in, per the posts authored at this forum by the incredibly-knowledgeable "Carabimero" (aka: "The Walking Encyclopedia Of Fugitive Musical Data").

And this replacement disc program was implemented, undoubtedly, at considerable cost to CBS/P, but at no additional cost to the outraged fans (except for the price of one U.S. postage stamp).

So, while I'm not too happy about any of the original music being excised from S2V1, I am nonetheless grateful to CBS/Paramount for making an effort to restore (at least for the most part) the inimitable music that is so much a vital and important part of each and every episode of Quinn Martin's "The Fugitive".

I'm not thrilled with the small music cuts that were made to another of my favorite TV shows either ("The Mary Tyler Moore Show"), but I still bought those DVD sets and enjoy them often.

Yes, I realize that the MTM comparison isn't a perfect analogy to the current (larger) underscore disaster we're facing with "The Fugitive", but the underlying point is pretty similar ---

i.e.,

If it's a TV show I'd really like to own on DVD (and there actually are relatively few of those), and it comes down to a choice of purchasing a slightly-altered version of that show vs. not purchasing it at all because of a few music edits....I'm more than likely going to end up choosing the first option, and then just live with the musical edits the best I can.

And, after all, to put a little bit of additional common-sense perspective on this thing (as a whole) -- this is only TV-on-DVD we're discussing here. It's not the catastrophe of the ages if every last note of TZ music isn't to be found in the 15 episodes of "The Fugitive: Season Two, Volume One".

And I doubt that I'm going to suffer a fatal brain hemorrhage if I watch a few episodes of "The Fugitive" that include mostly Pete Rugolo's music with a little bit of Mark Heyes mixed in.

But, I also realize that every person's own mileage will vary with respect to their willingness to accept even a slightly-altered TV/DVD product from any studio.

Regards to all,
David Von Pein



YouTube - DavidVonPein's Channel



03/08/2009 EDIT: Since posting the comments I quoted above, Mr. James Quirk appears to have changed his mind considerably about the motives of Paramount Home Entertainment and CBS. It appears that Mr. Quirk is no longer of the opinion that CBS/Paramount "care only about our money".

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

post deleted by user

ignoring elec08

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

You quoted a post I made. And? I haven't taken part in the DVD replacement offer, and I have no plans to. You're not sure why I'm in this thread? This IS a message board after all, and I am of the opinion, always have been, that this complaining about the music is childish. CBS restored the Rugolo music through the replacement DVD offer. The issue 99.9% of you here had was no Rugolo music. That's been restored, and all of a sudden, that's not good enough. You people really do beat all.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Very nice post David, and I really loved the Youtube clip of Rugolos music !

Did this clip have all his music on it ??

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

post deleted by user

ignoring elec08

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I wish we could all just ignore elect08. When we respond to him, we play right into his hands, and threads get closed. He knows this, he dangles the bait, so let's be smart and ignore it. It's not like he ever says anything of value.

It's been said that great people talk about ideas, average people talk about events, and little people talk about people.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I've only turned on my "ignore" function once here at HTF in 5 years of posting. It happened just a couple of hours ago after I received an extremely rude, completely unsolicited PM from a certain low count poster in this thread. It's a great function and I'm thankful that the creators of this site made it available to me.

Gary "sometimes ignoring 'irritants' (as Harry says) is really the best course of action" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Then don't read my words, then. Either that, or develop a thicker skin. At the end of the day, this is still only the Internet. Hit the ignore button if you're so "hurt."




I'm not here to endear myself to anyone. I'm here to express my opinions.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

But that is my point, David. I think too many fans got it into their heads CBS would do nothing to rectify this situation because there was not enough money in "The Fugitive."

I believe, however, there is a lot of money in "The Fugitive." Without rectifying the problem, i.e. sitting "on their hands" like you suggested, they would have been the ones to lose out. If their marketing experts determined after release of S2V1 that it would be best to abandon the show because there would be no profit, believe me, they would have abandoned the show. This replacement program is to get everybody back on board because CBS has five more volumes in the works. If 10,000 people buy S2V2, and 10,000 people buy the subsequent volume releases, and the average price is $30, that comes to about $1.5 million.

I take issue with this half-hearted replacement program. They are asking us to come back on board for the rest of this trip, but they're no longer providing us first-class seats. OK, we're not sitting in the cattle car anymore like we did with the original S2V1 release, I'll give them that. But they only upgraded us to the hobo section.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Then, too, it seems to me that any "contractual obligation" that CBS/P has with Mr. Heyes would still be satisfied even if every last note of his music was removed for the S2V1 replacement discs.

Why?

Because the Heyes music is still there on all of those S2V1 discs that everyone must purchase before sending for the replacement discs.

And the S2V1 Heyes discs themselves are not being mailed back to CBS/P to fulfill a consumer's requirements for getting the replacement discs (only the 2 proof-of-purchase tabs are needed).

So, Heyes' music is still there on every S2V1 set that will ever be bought by any consumer worldwide, regardless of whether the customer decides to send in for the replacements or not. And, no doubt, some people will not send for those replacements, and opt instead to keep the Heyes version they just bought.

So, why wouldn't the fact that every S2V1 disc being purchased by consumers has Heyes' music (and screen credit) on it be enough to satisify any pre-2/17/09 "contractual obligation" with Mr. Heyes?

Just a thought anyway.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I disagree. I think we've been upgraded from riding in the trunk to standing on the transmission hump in the back seat (remember doing that as a young-un? ). And that's just a very short distance from riding alongside the driver.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I think where I've been prone to speculate on the Heyes contractual matter, lies in the news that the end credits were not changed back. Would Heyes have a right to object if say, his name were appearing on *any* kind of end product for which he would have next to no work on it represented if the replacements put everything but Capitol back in? Even if just the replacement discs, I'm thinking of his sense of ego in which he would not like the fact that somewhere out there there would be *something* that says "Music...Mark Heyes" but a replacement disc featuring at most 30 seconds of that could then play a role in him demanding "take my name off, if it all goes out" and CBS/Paramount not wanting to spend the excess money of restoring the original end credits figures this is the cheapest solution to keep Heyes or his representatives from throwing a fit and giving them more headaches.

Mind you, that's just speculation and I'd be happy to be proved wrong, but it just seems to me that the truth lies more in this kind of area (or just plain laziness) than anything having to do with royalties to original CBS library composers (which doesn't follow given the legal ownership of the whole library).

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

It all depends on how you want to look at the world. If I wanted to, I could go through my entire day bitching about every last little thing. The trash truck that woke me up this morning. The cable that went out during my breakfast. The call from my agent that wasn't what I'd hoped it would be. And on and on.

When they raped the first release, I thought outright loud bitching was called for. Now, I don't think the same attitude applies. To each his own, but I'd rather spend my day leaning toward the light, even if it's not the complete sunshine I'd hoped for.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thank you.



No, just some of it.

But for a larger selection of Rugolo classics from "The Fugitive", the CD is still available -- secondhand -- at Amazon (it's expensive though):

Amazon.com: The Fugitive - Original Television Series Soundtrack Music by Peter Rugolo: Peter Rugolo, Harry Rabinowitz, The London Studio Symphony Orchestra: Music




For more of David Janssen (recorded 8/29/67):

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

And a great cd it is, David. So glad it's in my library. But those pricetags at Amazon are crazy high!

Gary "that cd is gold, as far as I'm concerned" O.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Thank you Gary. I don't know why I forgot that "ignore" function, but you're right - it's a godsend.

The irritant has been rendered null and void - his words will never bother me again.

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I agree on this statement to a point. Yes, they do deserve credit for trying. But it was, remember, "outright bitching" that forced them to do something in the first place. They finally did something, and even though many of us still do not believe it was enough, many of us are willing to accept their solution and continue buying subsequent sets. But if all of us become complacent and tell them we fully accept what they did, then they have no reason to try to make the situation better for S2V2 or the final four volumes.

We need to let them know that we'll accept S2V1 for now, but that we're still not fully satisfied and we're going to get mad again if this keeps recurring in subsequent sets. We want them to fully rectify this problem, and raise the quality level back to what was offered on the first season sets. If a few Capitol cues have to go because they legally can't be cleared, so be it, but put back the CBS library cues. It is important.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

One seller on half.com is selling it for $39 plus shipping -- the lowest price I've seen. Someone here may want to jump on it.

Half.com / Music / The Fugitive

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

Does the CD soundtrack retain the Capitol and CBS cues? If not, I think we should all demand replacement sets.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I've written two letters requesting an explanation as to why the CBS cues were omitted, and stating my strong desire they be included in future sets. I'm going to continue the fight, but that doesn't mean I have to grumble at being given 80% of what I wanted in the meantime.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

To the folks who state that the program is just a move by CBS/P to save future releases so they can sell more to us and make more money:

WELCOME TO CAPITALISM! Companies that are smart try to make their customers happy so they'll sell us more and make more money. It's called good business.

CBS/P spent money in the hope they'll make more by selling me future issues of "The Fugitive," which they weren't going to before. I was also boycotting their products. Well, they succeeded: I already bought The Invaders and Season 2, Vol. 1 of "Streets of San Francisco." I will buy Season 2, Vol. 2 of "The Fugitive."

The spent money to make me happy. They're making more from me. It's called good business.

Welcome to capitalism!

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I just wonder why THE FUGITIVE in particular has such an issue with library cues when so many old shows used library stuff. Are you telling me Warners had to go thru every single episode of ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN, which used all library cues, and figure out who did the cues and who owned the rights etc.? Even the TWILIGHT ZONE re-used their own cues repeatedly throughout the series. So are we to believe that they had to renegotiate rights and pay royalties to Jerry Goldsmith estate for every episode on the DVDs that re-used his cues? The original form THE FUGITIVE was in was a completed work of art, library cues and all. Those cues were licensed back in the 60s to be a part of the show. The shows re-ran endlessly over the years without any alterations. The VHS tapes were without alterations. Now all of a sudden there's a big deal about this on DVD? Something stinks somewhere. Does Dominic Frontiere get new money now from THE INVADERS DVDs which use all of his cues? Does Roy Thinnes suddenly get a new paycheck from DVD sales of his old show?
Actually I had no intention of even buying the FUGITIVE series, which WAS one of my long time childhood favorites, because I had watched the whole story so many times from beginning to end and didn't feel like starting it again. But it's quite irritating to think such a classic show is getting messed with in this fashion.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

May I remind you, sir, that this is a forum where people are ENCOURAGED to express their OPINIONS. Even the ones you don't agree with. You seem to have a hard time grasping that concept.

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

David VP,

Your messages last evening were great, though I just got around to them this morning. Last night, I was involved in nuking some earlier posts of mine after thinking more about it and placing a certain 'irritant' member in my ignore list.

If anyone wants to use that feature, simply go into your USER CP, go the "Buddy/Ignore" link and enter the user name of your particular 'irritant' in one of the 'ignore' boxes. Then, any posts by that user doesn't clutter up the thread, but you have a link in its place if you're curious enough to want more punishment!

At 9 PM local time, it was time for LOST, my current must-see show, that's not, incidentally without its FUGITIVE links. The show contained, at the start, someone in custody, released to freedom following a crash, and even involved a one-armed man.

Regarding THE FUGITIVE soundtrack CD, it's a somewhat interesting coincidence that just yesterday, I dug that out of my collection for a listen - and what a great listen it is. The score just soars at times, making for an enjoyable ride to and from work yesterday.

Since we know CBS/P is putting back THIS music, it will make for a vastly improved set of episodes from what was released last June. I'm still of the opinion that I can live without the TZ cues as long as Mr. Rugolo is well-represented where he rightfully belongs.

And I hope CBS/P gets its act together for future volumes and gets the TZ library cues back in. That will make the slightly bitter pill of them being missing from half or all of Season Two more palletable.

Harry

Re: THE FUGITIVE, Season 2, Vol. 1 - Replacement Program Announced

I think I could too. But it would considerably help if in its place there was... well, silence. That way I can at least in my mind quitely embed Herrmann, Steiner or Goldsmith into the scene.