A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Once again, screen caps do not tell either the entire or true story. The only awkward moment that I noted was the Santa outfit. Other than that, I find it to be a very interesting experiment. -- but still not the Best Picture of 1971.

The dangling participle here is the question of whether Mr. Roizman, one of our great cinematographers was consulted.

RAH

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Watched this a couple of months ago when it was released in Europe. I was very impressed with the picture quality. It felt like I was watching a freshly struck print. It does look very different from the original release but the process that Friedkin applied enhances the cinema verite style of the picture in my opinion and I can understand why he did it.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

It's interesting to see how the threads from the past 24 hours have knocked this one clear down to page two.

I'll stir the pot again by providing a link to screen grabs from a review at DVDBeaver. While it's true that screen grabs fall short, here is some indication of what RAH has been describing.

The French Connection Blu-ray - Gene Hackman Roy Scheider

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I have to say that I don't get the resistance to this blu-ray just because the color mastering is somewhat different. It's not a different film per se. Paramount just put out Friday the 13th on BR and it's a different cut of the film. No one is balking at buying it if they don't put out the original version as well (which they're not). And they're putting out a less effective cut of the film. (I know it's silly to compare TFC with FT13, but the principal is the same.)

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Why? I'm sure I'm not the only person who prefers to see films presented as closely as possible to the way they looked when first released, whether or not I have already seen the film in question. In fact, filmmakers and film students, or anybody wanting to assess a film's place in the context of the aesthetics of its time, would regard such an aim as essential, I believe.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I disagree with this point. It assumes that the way a film is upon intial release is an artistic or aesthetic choice. Frequently, nothing could be farther from the truth. The way a film is upon release is often the result of (relatively) arbitrary things such as post-production budget and time available and fixed release dates (and even contracted running times). I would MUCH rather see the way the original artist(s) would prefer to see their film if they had the time and funds they needed than the way some studio executive "deems" it should be, however unkowingly or inadvertently.

Again, there is nothing wrong with offering BOTH versions in cases like this, but often the desire for the original is more about our own sentimentality for recapturing the experience of first viewing than it is about what the artists wanted.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

This should just be a basic consumer product thing, not an artistic thing that gets debated for years. There's no reason not to offer both versions if this new format is supposed to be so...ultimate. As with Amadeus and The Warriors etc., it shouldn't even be an issue to include the thing that actually played in theaters.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

But every decision in filmmaking is a compromise. Budgets, schedules, cast and crew, the weather, available technology - these are all factors that affect - often negatively - the creative process, and I'm sure there has never been a filmmaker who hasn't wished for more control over all of these things.


I certainly wasn't around when say the original "King Kong" appeared in 1933, but I'd like to see it the way that a contemporary audience would have - at least as closely as possible, so I don't see what sentimentality or nostalgia has to do with it.

There's also the issue of when changes are being made. It's one thing for a filmmaker to make changes based on audience feedback in test screenings. It's something else when they make changes decades after the fact - using technology that didn't exist at the time.

I have nothing against filmmakers - or anyone for that matter - making changes to films. Add scenes, remove scenes, colourize, desaturate, remix the sound, what have you - as long as the original version of the film remains available, as well.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Exactly. So why resist it when they get a chance to do what they want?




Well, to each his own. I for one don't care if I never see the title cards over the opening shot of Touch of Evil again. I prefer to see what the filmamker intended, even if I don't like it as much, as with Badham's Dracula. Plus, if I wanted to experience it as a 1933 audience member would, I'd have to have reel change markings on the print and not be able to start and stop at my leisure.

The reality is I am watching these works in 2009 in my living room. It's a fun game to imagine how audiences might have reacted in the past, but the reality is, we have no way of actually replicating that. Only sort of "pretending" we are.

And of course the new Disney Sleeping Beauty has more frame information than any previous version, including the theatrical release. It doesn't include the "original" visually truncated version but people seemed excited by that, not put off that they weren't seeing it the way it played in theaters.

But, more importantly, most people who get upset about these changes are people who HAVE seen these films, and are comparing them to their initial viewings, which weren't always back the films were first released. I bet many people here have no idea what TFC looked like on sceen in 1971 (let alone King Kong in 1933). And if they did, why would that be arbitrarily more vaild that what the original artists would like it to be today? Mostly, it's because of the "nostalgia" they hold for how it looked to them when they first saw it. And that may have nothing to do with how it looked to an audience upon first release.


Again, to each his own. I tend to not like the changes made based on audience dictates. I think Fatal Attraction would have actually been a more interesting movie with the original ending, instead of the ridiculous ending they concocted after the early screenings. Wouldn't have been as big a hit, most probably.

But I definitely like to see what they do if they're given more time and more money later. Again, I don't care if I ever see the theatrical cut of Star Trek: The Motion Picture again after Robert Wise was allowed to go back and finish the special effects and add back in scenes he preferred be in the film. It's still not a great film, but it's much improved. Same with Aliens.


But TFC is. Just not on this same blu-ray.

I guess what I find strange is the resistence to this release when people have not even seen it yet. And it's not like the "original" is no longer available.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Ok... you like the new versions of movies better, that's nice, I do too. Is that really a good reason to not include other versions that exist when selling a product that can easily include them?

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Not NEW versions necessarily. Artists' preferred versions. Sometimes they're even the original versions, before changes were forced on them.

As I said before, more than once, it would be great if they included both. But why should it be a deal breaker if they don't only for this film? Neither Mr. Harris in his review nor any other posters in that thread said they'd forgo the Friday the 13th blu-ray because the original isn't included. Neither Mr. Harris in his review nor any other posters in that thread said they'd boycott the new Sleeping Beauty blu-ray since the original isn't included.

I'm just wondering why it's such a deal breaker on this particular release when no one has seen the blu-ray yet, except for Mr. Harris who called it beautiful and (highly) recommended it, even with its differences. I'm not begrudging anyone's right to pass on it for whatever reason, I'm just trying to understand the extreme positions being taken against this release in particular when others get a pass.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

The bottom line here is unless you pull a Close Encounters or Blade Runner and release a multi-disc multi-version Blu-ray, you are going to have arguments from both "purists" and "director's intentists" saying their version is better and they're not buying it unless it is included.

Star Trek: TMP press release says they are releasing the theatrical version. All I see are posts lambasting Paramount for the decision not to include the DC.
The French Connection Blu-ray is released with a new director's intent look and Fox/Friedken are lambasted for not including the theatrical version.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

This movie has long been one of my favorites, and when the Five Star Collection dvd was released in 2001 I was hugely impressed and very happy with the presentation of the movie. Having lived with the European blu-ray for the last 2 months I can say it's been hard to take this new director approved version.

A side by side comparison with the original dvd shows not just the questionable new colors, but also the enormous amount of loss of shadow detail in dark/night time scenes. This can be attributed I think to the oversaturation of colors, used in the new color timing process described in the new features on the disc. Where the side effects in daytime scenes are mostly limited to color bleeding (most distracting also in some close-ups of faces), it kills any fine detail in the darker scenes. One example in the night club scene, where behind the Sal Boca party a band of musicians is clearly seen playing on the dvd: on the blu-ray they're almost completely lost in the shadows and hard to make out at all.

Also, in the tailing scene after coming out of the night club there seem to be a couple of shots where the grain structure seems frozen and unnatural. Specifically the scene where Doyle and Russo are watching Sal and Angie from the car through the window of the cafe: the faces of the detectives almost turn to mush in a couple of shots.

Luckily the original dvd is still a marvel upconverted. But my heart breaks every time I think of the lost opportunity here. Friedkin in my opinion has really not thought through this new colour timing process.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I'm fine if a director wishes to alter how HIS film looks and I may pick this blu-ray up.

I also agree with JohnMor how it is funny nobody complained about sleeping beauty being altered yet this (and some other releases) get the complainers out in full force...why the double standard?

To each their own I guess. I really don't care if people are going to not buy this because of the changed colour just like I don't care if people do buy it.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

According to DVDSavant in his review of the BD, the DVD is far removed from the look of the original release prints:

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Funny, people are praising the DVD which only has a 5.1 or stereo re-mix of the film. This Blu-ray includes the original Oscar nominated mono track. There are no editorial changes to the picture, just a different color palette which the director prefers. The re-mix done had all sorts of replaced sound effects, which really changed the movie.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

According to the people who did the restoration, Sleeping Beauty looks the way it's supposed to look, and how it looked when it premiered. Friedkin changed The French Connection to how he wants it to look now. Those are different things in my opinion.
And even if you want to discuss SB's restoration, it's still nowhere near as drastic as the alteration of The French Connection.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Actually that is not quite true. According to Theo Gluck in his interview with Robert Harris, there is info in the frame that has never been seen before, even in it's theatrical release:



To me the difference in the looks of each SB and TFC are no more "radical" than the other.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Sleeping Beauty is different in two ways. No grain -- the concept being that the original cells had no grain -- and a large format negative had 50% smaller grain anyway, but it is also extremely sharper, as the original dye transfer prints appeared to be far sharper than they actually were. The new Blu-ray of SB has the full resolution of the original SE negative.

RAH

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Thanks John and Robert, I actually meant Sleeping Beauty looked correct in terms of the colors, since the changed color palet of TFC sparks the most controversy.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I'm buying both I & II on BD, BUT I'm keeping the SD editions I have in case I have issues with the "coloring" change in the two films.


I'll bet J6P WON"T give a darn!

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I don't know if anyone else is following all the talk about the transfer over at Jeffrey Wells' HOLLYWOOD ELSEWHERE, but apparently now the cinematographer has come out against the film, calling the transfer "atrocious" and "horrifying" and that he wasn't consulted on it.

"Atrocious...Horrifying" :: Hollywood Elsewhere

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

God has spoken!

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

God? Hardly. What this boils down to is two failures: (1) a failure of Mr. Friedkin to communicate with Mr. Roizman; and (2) a failure to acknowledge the collaborative nature of film. The end result is that Mr. Friedkin has the film looking exactly the way he wants it right now. which may not have been his intent @ the time of shooting. That look is clearly @ odds with how Mr. Roizman wants the film to look right now, and his belief is that he wanted something different @ the time of release. The ultimate question is, whose opinion should prevail? Auteur theorists would welcome Friedkin's new version as a manifestation of "director's intent," while others believe it should look as it did in 1971. It is a conundrum and one that RAH has graciously avoided by saying that it looks like film (meaning no DNR), but that the film as presented on BD is not the Best Picture winner of 1971. Is it a hideous travesty, as Mr. Roizman would have us believe? I don't think so.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I'm sorry, but the cinematographer, however talented (or in some cases, even a genius), is but an additional tool for the director to realize his film intent. Similar to the art director and actors. They are all there to serve the director and his vision. It's a collaborative art, but they are all collaborating on the director's vision of the film (or should be.)

Also, Friedkin states in his intro that this is now closer to his intent at the time, not merely some new-fangled reimagining.

And apologies to Mr. Roizman, but it is impossible for a film transfer to be "emasculated." That word is senseless in the context in which it was used. Add to that such extreme overly-emotional hyperbole as "horrifying" and "atrocious" and it becomes impossible for me to take his point of view seriously.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

He shot the fucker - he can say whatever he wants about it.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

I'm been laid up most of the day with a stomach bug or something, so I decided to watch The French Connection on Blu-ray Disc. Would I be lynched if I said I didn't notice a huge difference between the BD and the DVD transfers? The color timing featurette, the only special feature I have watched at the moment, does a comparison of what the transfer would've looked like if they'd stuck with the original timing vs. the new look. It wasn't as exagerated as I thought it would be. Additionally, a comparison of the BD and the DVD did not yield the 'revelation' I had expected.

When it is all said and done, I have no issue with the BD transfer, though I agree with Robert Harris that the smart thing to do would have been to include both. That certainly would have been the polite thing to do for both the audience and Mr. Roizman.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

Agreed, but it would actually mean something if it made sense. How can a film transfer be "emasculated" ?

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

If Friedkin's manipulations have, in the opinion of Roizman, weakened the cinematography then he (Roizman) is fully within his rights to say the film is emasculated. I read on another site that shadow detail has been reduced due to Friedkin's manipulation. An example that was brought up was a scene where a band in the background almost completely disappears into shadow in Friedkin's transfer, while the band is very visible in the original cinematography. If that is the case then I would say that Roizman is within his rights to say that the image has been emasculated, since the visual composition has been weakened.

Re: A few words about...™ The French Connection -- in Blu-ray

But he didn't say "weakened." He said "emasculated."

Sigh. Very typical. Clearly you did not read my post. It wasn't about Roizman being critical of the transfer, but the overly emotional, hyperbolic way in which he expressed it that makes me take him less seriously. A film is not "human" and it's not "male."

Neither is this transfer "horrifying" or "atrocious." He may hate it. He may feel it's wrong. He may feel it's ugly. But "horrifying" and "atrocious" would be clearly and uniformly unwatchable to ALL viewers, whether or not they had ever seen the film before. This transfer is not.

Anyone can dislike it for whatever reasons they want, most particularly the cinematographer. But if they can't express their opinions in realistic, direct terms without over emotionalizing them, then I can't take them seriously.