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Need help in choosing a sub!!!

#1
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12/18/08 at 8:02am
  • Joined: December 2008
  • Location: Wood Ridge, NJ
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Hi all,

Need a little help deciding what sub to get. With so many available choices on the market, i can honestly say i haven't the slightest clue as to what brands/subs are good and which are phony's. Here's my setup if this helps:

Receive: Pioneer Elite VSX-92THX
Display: Pioneer Elite Pro 111FD
DVD Player: Pioneer Elite DV-48AV (upgrading to Blu Ray Shortly)
Center Channel Speaker: Boston Acoustics P450
Front L/R Speakers: Boston Acoustics P430's
Rear L/R: Yamaha NS-IW480C In celiling speakers

As you can see I've invested quite a few dollars into my set up and fully understand the sub is the "heartbeat" of the system thus don't wanna make any wrong decisions in choosing. Sub will be used for movies/music/games etc so need an all around great performer. Tight/deep base, room filling acoustics, aesthetics, etc.. The room is approx 18 x 15 and i believe a solid 10" unit should be sufficient. I'm looking at a budget of around $500 - $600 dollars for the sub + cables etc. I greatly appreciate all your input!!!!

Thanks in advance!!
Louis
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#2
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12/18/08 at 9:22am
  • Joined: January 2004
  • Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Here ya go: SVSound - Cylinder Subwoofers

If you can increase the budget to $1k: SVSound - Cylinder Subwoofers

If you don't like the cylinders, the box subs from SVS are just as good (but a bit more expensive).
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#3
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12/18/08 at 1:42pm
  • Joined: December 2008
  • Location: Wood Ridge, NJ
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

thanks...that's interesting, i didn't even consider a circular sub..i'll def look into it. I've seen numerous postings about SVS subwoofers although have never com across one and actually been able to hear it perform. How do they measure up to the more common sub brands like Polk, Def Tech, Mirage, Velodyne, etc? I have little knowledge about the brand other than seeing it posted here and there.

I was in bestbuy the other day to pick up the new batman dvd and noticed they carry a Martin Logan sub ($679). has anyone ever tested any of their subs? I know the legendary quality their floor standing 2.1 stereo speaker sets offer, is it safe to assume their subs are of the same quality caliber?
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#4
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12/18/08 at 2:45pm
  • Joined: January 2004
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

You will find that most high end speaker manufactures do not do a good job with subs (not all - I know there are exceptions). I have yet to hear a similarly priced sub beat an SVS. I bet there are folks in NJ that would be glad to let you hear one. Come over to south central PA and I will be glad to demo mine (I have an SVS older box sub). And I even have an Velodyne (although much smaller than the SVS).

If you search a bit you will find several sub shootouts that compare SVS with more B&M brands. Very interesting reading.
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#5
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12/18/08 at 3:44pm
  • Joined: August 2000
  • Location: Southaven, MS
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Other internet direct brands are Epik Subwoofers, Hsu Subwoofers and Elemental Designs. Most are partial to SVS because the founders met here in the DIY section where they were both building subs. On that note, DIY is the best value if you have the time and tools.

-Robert
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#6
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12/18/08 at 9:48pm
  • Joined: May 2003
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

A friend that lives almost 4 hrs. away from me, has an SVS cylinder sub. I call it "The Beast". That thing is awesome! I've never heard a sub hit lows like it did. There were even notes you couldn't hear, but could feel. I told my wife that when we could afford one, we would have one.

I like the cylinder shape too. It has a smaller foot print, than some of their box subs. I've never heard another sub that can even come close to it. But I've not heard all brands of subs. Some say HSU can hold their own with SVS, but I don't know that, personally. My next sub will be an SVS........
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#7
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12/20/08 at 5:39pm
  • Joined: December 2008
  • Location: Wood Ridge, NJ
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

sweet...i think i'm going to try my luck and get an SVS sub. i'm a little weary about purchasing something i can't see or test in person before buying...but SVS seems to be one of the most recommended sub brands on many of the A/V enthusiast forums.

I'll post back with a review once it arrives to let you know what i think of it!
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#8
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12/22/08 at 11:36am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

I like my Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus! It hits very nicely. It's a 12" that cost $549. I can't seem to find anything I don't like about it!
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#9
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12/22/08 at 9:29pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

the only thing i might not like about the svs is the size...looking at the dimensions online this thing is HUGE.
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#10
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12/23/08 at 3:58am
  • Joined: May 2003
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Yes, they are. That was one reason I like their cylinder subs. Smaller footprint, but is a little tall. But I can easily live with the height...........
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#11
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12/23/08 at 6:31am
  • Joined: January 2004
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcd327
the only thing i might not like about the svs is the size...looking at the dimensions online this thing is HUGE.

A sub has to be large to accomplish its mission. You can go with a smaller sub, but there is no getting around the laws of physics. The size of the enclosure, the size of the driver, and the power (watts) all work together to produce the low, flat, hits you in the gut sound we desire.
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#12
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12/23/08 at 7:19am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

funny i was at 6th ave yesterday and listened to the mirage "super cube" and a few other subs in the same price/size range . all fairly average sized only about 12" cubed.. at low volume they all sounded clean but once the volume got turned up even a little they became extremely sloppy. i could hear the cones literally rattling and clicking as if it were going to explode. This is what these stores sell for $600?? it was a joke.

that being said, I fully understand the physics part of it. It's almost impossible to get the deep, solid and continuosly tight bass at high(er) volumes from most of these little subwoofers.

How are the cylinder subs as opposed to the cubes? are they as tight and deep, or is there much performance sacrificed just because of their shape?
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#13
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12/23/08 at 9:16am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcd327
I've seen numerous postings about SVS subwoofers although have never com across one and actually been able to hear it perform. How do they measure up to the more common sub brands like Polk, Def Tech, Mirage, Velodyne, etc?


SVS will kick the ever lovin' BEJEESUS out of those brands. When I was watching "The Incredible Hulk" a few weeks ago, my PB13 Ultra was very convincingly conveying the impression that the Hulk was stomping right through my listening room. SVS rules!

"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
-Dustin Hoffman as 'Bernie Focker'

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#14
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12/23/08 at 9:20am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanZ
SVS will kick the ever lovin' BEJEESUS out of those brands.

Great post Alan. I can't see SVS using your quote on their website but that was a great pitch for their subs.
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#15
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12/23/08 at 3:17pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ennsio
Great post Alan. I can't see SVS using your quote on their website but that was a great pitch for their subs.

When I was looking at SVS a few years ago, someone here described the sound as "skull crushing". They weren't kidding.
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#16
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12/23/08 at 3:31pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcd327


How are the cylinder subs as opposed to the cubes? are they as tight and deep, or is there much performance sacrificed just because of their shape?

To my knowledge, there is little difference. It's just a different way to get the volume needed to produce the deep bass.
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#17
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12/23/08 at 7:39pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ennsio
Great post Alan. I can't see SVS using your quote on their website but that was a great pitch for their subs.



It's just rare in this hobby to have a product or a company you can stay with for (literally) years and be as happy today as you were back when you first discovered them, you know? I probably change my gear a little less often than most folks in this hobby, but I do still change/upgrade. Well, with SVS it's always just been a matter of, "okay, I have more space...I'll just get a bigger SVS!" That's not a knock against the other guys in the sub arena, but from top to bottom...from customer service, to turnaround time, to tech support, to overall product performance in my home...I've had immensely positive experiences with the SVS guys in every aspect of the purchase.

"Come on you Fockers....CONGA!!!"
-Dustin Hoffman as 'Bernie Focker'

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#18
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12/24/08 at 6:58am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcd327
the only thing i might not like about the svs is the size...looking at the dimensions online this thing is HUGE.
Huge is relative. Here's a pic of a DIY sub. It doesn't look impressive until you realize that is an 18" driver. The box is the size of an industrial refrigerator.

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#19
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12/24/08 at 7:19am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
Huge is relative. Here's a pic of a DIY sub. It doesn't look impressive until you realize that is an 18" driver. The box is the size of an industrial refrigerator.

WOW. i take back calling the svs "huge".
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#20
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12/28/08 at 11:13am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

SVS, I have two tucked in a corner....I can't say I hardly notice them or anything because the shake the entire room. They are just tall but take up a little of 1 foot of floor space.
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#21
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12/30/08 at 5:19pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

I will give the SVS a two thumbs up as well. I have had my SVS Ultra 13 a little less than a year and I can say my system outperforms any public theater I have been in...easily.

The extension and overhead is all I need or could imagine needing. When I stretch it's legs, the house, my ears, my insides give before the sub/speaker setup I have do. I cannot sustain those listening levels for long without fear of permanent damage to my hearing. Or lumps on my head from my fiance yelling at me to turn it down with a broomstick in her hands.

You seem concerned with a cylinder being a detriment to the sound. Actually the design of a box presents more problems than that of a cylinder. It is doubtful you would hear the difference between the cylinder or box version of the SVS Ultra 13 for example but a box might add coloration in areas the cylinder would not. (if not designed properly) I will leave that to the experts. I cannot vouch for other brands or even other models of SVS however with all I have read the cylinders are outstanding.

You seem to have a budget of around $600 though and it will be difficult to get a sub with the LFE extent below 20Hz that will give you what it seems you are looking for....especially in a 10" solution.

With a $600 budget you could build an awesome home project though. Maybe an infinite baffle solution could suffice for you.

.....this is truly an illness

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#22
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12/31/08 at 2:23pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

this beginning to sound like a svs site, but I will say I have two and absolutely love them, I upgraded from a 20-39 cs passive to a pb12/ plus 2 and even with a concrete floor in my theater room it is violent, I actually just put my 20-39 cylinder on ebay
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#23
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1/1/09 at 4:48am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bert lancaster
this beginning to sound like a svs site
That isn't surprising since the two founders of Stimpson Vodhanel Subwoofers (Ron S and Tom V) met on this forum in the DIY section. Ron was wanting to build a sub and Tom was helping him. It worked out very well. Another long time DIY sub builder, Jack G, also works for SVS in customer service.

And SVS isn't the only company with ties to this forum. Chad, the owner of Epik Subwoofers, is also a member here. Dan Wiggins, the former owner of Adire Audio and one of the first to take subs into the high excursion level, was a very frequent poster. He even took our advice when creating the Tumult driver.

-Robert
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#24
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1/1/09 at 6:48am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

I think I am going to go with the cylinder sub as I like the design and concept. The PC12-NSD is the sub in my price range at $549 + shipping etc,.... would it be worth the wait to save up and get the PC-12 plus?? how much of a performance difference is there between the 2 models??
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#25
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1/1/09 at 7:50pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

If you don't push the NSD sub to its limits, then there is no difference. When the NSD starts to distort at its limits, the Plus will just keep working without straining. You already have a decent sized room. Is it closed off from the rest of the house? Do you like action movies? Do you listen to them at reference or near reference levels?

-Robert
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#26
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1/1/09 at 10:24pm
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
If you don't push the NSD sub to its limits, then there is no difference. When the NSD starts to distort at its limits, the Plus will just keep working without straining. You already have a decent sized room. Is it closed off from the rest of the house? Do you like action movies? Do you listen to them at reference or near reference levels?

-Robert

yes, it's closed off. is actually a basement. bedroom on one side, squared off living room on the other. marble floors, low sheet rocked ceiling, insulated walls, etc. i listen at moderate to slightly loud....max i usually go is -10.0 dB....and that's MAX. i'm comfortable at -25.0 dB to -20.0 dB.
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#27
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1/2/09 at 6:04am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

Then I think the NSD will work fine for you.

I have a closed room that is about 18x24x9 and a Dayton DVC 12" sub (similar to the NSD driver) in a ported sonotube. It is more than enough for most people. It can even send minor shockwaves through the concrete floor. Good think that I built it for a family member because it isn't enough for me. My dual 15" sub is adequate. I think my quad 18" sub will finally satisfy my need for bass.

As you can see, what is overkill for one is barely adquate for others.

-Robert
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#28
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1/2/09 at 6:16am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

i was weary about a down-firing sub because the floor is tiled. how will a tile floor effect the acoustics of the sub? or will a down-firing be just as good as a front-firing?
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#29
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1/2/09 at 7:57am
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Re: Need help in choosing a sub!!!

It makes no difference. If one driver orientation were better than the other then every sub manufacturer would be using that method. Some will say that a down firing sub will vibrate the floor more. I say a quality sub will vibrate the floor no matter what direction it is pointed. All you are doing is exciting the resonant frequency of the floor.

-Robert
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