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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
On the surface this makes sense (as 35mm film theoretically has more resolution than 2K). But I still can't reconcile how much better TDK Prologue looks on my HDTV than the Batman Begins portion of the BD. It may be the same pixel count, but the IMax-shot TDK Prologue just looks much sharper than the film Batman Begins. And it's not close, to my eyes.
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Well, there's plenty of speculation that BB was filtered to some extent possibly to reduce film grain. For my money, I don't recall the TDK Prologue looking any sharper than several other BD titles I own -- certainly, many titles have scenes that are comparably sharp, if not for the entire film.
Heck, I just watched The Lives of Others last night, and that relatively low budget foreign film looked surprising sharp for most of its length -- w/ many scenes being reference level sharp, IMHO, and no artificial looking enhancements like Dr. No (IMHO) either. BTW, great film that one and highly recommended on BD, again IMHO.
_Man_
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Vincent_P
Where did you see it in IMAX, Robert? When I saw it in Manhattan at the Loews IMAX on 68th Street (I think they had the New York premiere there), the 35mm portions were definitely Panavision aspect ratio.
Vincent
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I saw the film at The Bridge, somewhere near LAX. Wonderful presentation. Did not look like Panavision, although it could have been a long day.
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did." T.E. Lawrence
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Douglas Monce
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Jason Seaver
Not really; this is just an odd case where the home video version including exactly what was on the screen in theaters would undermine the intent. If the IMAX-shot scenes were pillarboxed, then there's a good chance that the person watching it would see it as smaller than the widescreen scenes. Sure, the IMAX-ratio scenes would cover more area (1.44 square screen-heights vs 1.34 square screen-heights), but the brain probably wouldn't process it that way. If Nolan wants those scenes to come across as bigger than the rest, then cropping them to 1.78:1 is probably the best compromise.
I suspect Nolan might have wanted to do it the same way in conventional 35mm theaters, but there's no good way to do that with an anamorphic film print. (I'm now idly wondering which way digital projection would work - does that use an anamorphic lens for scope movies, or does it project 16:9 like a BD?) By that argument, both 35mm and BD are compromised, with Blu-ray compromised less.
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This same argument could be used with regard to Vittorio Storaro's approach to wide screen on home video, yet he is branded a mad man. Both choices are a compromise on video, and an artistic choice on the part of the filmmakers.
Doug
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Robert George
Well, for the sake of debate, I have seen this film both ways on video (IMAX and constant matted to 2.40:1). I found the 2.40 version plays more seamlessly. The IMAX version can be distracting with the shifting AR.
As to shifting aspect ratios and the director's intent, the shape of the frame is not the reason to use IMAX. IMAX format offers a huge increase in resolution and depth over 35mm scope photography, but that only works in an actual IMAX venue. Seen in IMAX, the 70mm IMAX shots would be breathtaking. However, transferred to video, even HD, the maximum resolution is about 2K and it doesn't change when the AR changes. The IMAX effect is lost on video, therefore, there is no good reason to change the AR.
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I have to agree with this. BD just doesn't have the resolution to be able to see the difference between the 35mm scope shots and the lazy 70mm Imax shots. If it weren't for the aspect ratio changes, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
For my money it kinda makes the whole point moot.
Doug
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Douglas Monce
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
On the surface this makes sense (as 35mm film theoretically has more resolution than 2K). But I still can't reconcile how much better TDK Prologue looks on my HDTV than the Batman Begins portion of the BD. It may be the same pixel count, but the IMax-shot TDK Prologue just looks much sharper than the film Batman Begins. And it's not close, to my eyes.
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This could be many things. Different film stocks used. Superior telecine equipment used on the newer film. Filters used on the cameras for BB and not for DK.
Doug
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Robert George
Don't EVEN get me started on this.  |
Couldn't resist poking a stick at it!
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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| I didn't find the aspect ratio changes annoying at all, but like I said I was watching the movie, not the aspect ratio changes. I don't want to move in on Cameron's turf since he will be the one officially reviewing the title, but lets just say that I though it looked and sounded fantastic and I will be buying this on street date. |
If I get any flack, I'll just point them in your direction.
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
I also had the opportunity to watch the BD before I sent it to Cameron to review. I had not seen TDK in the theater, but was aware of the IMAX aspect change. I watched on a 128 inch screen.
I didn't find the aspect ratio changes annoying at all, but like I said I was watching the movie, not the aspect ratio changes. I don't want to move in on Cameron's turf since he will be the one officially reviewing the title, but lets just say that I though it looked and sounded fantastic and I will be buying this on street date.
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I suspect the AR changes would not be particularly annoying to me either if I have a 128" screen at home (viewed from say 12ft or so away)
-- that would probably be close enough to the IMAX experience for me. Unfortunately, I only have a 53" display viewed from ~9.5ft away (although I do plan to bump that up to 60-65" at some point in the next year or so).
I really think the individual viewer's screen-size-to-viewing-distance ratio will be a big factor in whether the AR changes will be noticeable, distracting or not at all. OTOH, there's probably very little chance that the AR changes will yield the same kind of effect as the original IMAX experience. IOW, I agree w/ those who feel that Warner/Nolan should've just provided both feasible versions to us (ie. both this compromised IMAX version and the theatrical 2.4:1 non-changing one) ideally on one seamlessly branched BD50 even if I personally end up finding this compromised IMAX version to be just fine w/ the AR changes not being distracting to me.
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
I've watched this film three times, but only in an IMAX theater so the shifting AR is the only way I have seen the film which is why I'm glad it's that way on the BRD.
Crawdaddy
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Ric Easton
Seems like the majority are happy with the changing aspect ratios. I still think it should have been released both ways. If I want to see it the way I experienced it in my theater, I have to go to an inferior format. Kinda frustrating.
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Different /= inferior.
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
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Originally Posted by Ric Easton
You got it, Paul. Im was indeed talking about DVD vs Blu-ray. Thanks for making clear what I was obviously unable to do! At first I didn't get what David was trying to tell me!
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Ah, sorry! Yes, I did misunderstand what you meant. My apologies.
I saw this in both an Imax and regular theater, and the Imax scenes were jaw-dropping with the full aspect ratio. I don't expect a similar experience from the Blu-ray, but I also don't think I'm going to be bothered by the shifting AR. I saw
Brainscan at a great old theater in Pittsburgh when it came out and I remember being very impressed when the movie switched to 70mm for the brainscan scenes.
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Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke
Probably not. I didn't get a chance to see the IMAX version, but my understanding is that the area of the IMAX negative transferred to 35mm for wide release is not constant, kind of like when Super35 films are prepped for anamorphic conversion. Am I right?
\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert
