The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Count me in the disappointed column for the PQ on this release.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

The gulf is curious...I could understand someone saying "not quite reference" but "no where near" and "far from" makes me scratch my head.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Glad I'm not the only one who found the Bat voice completely distracting.

This arrived today and I'm going to spin it shortly. Looking forward to watching it due to all the hype that has surrounded this release. Depending on how it looks and how distracting the AR shifting is will determine on if I buy this or not.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I kinda like the voice, especially when he says, "hockey pants."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

The imax footage looks very very good, (save for the occasional EE like when you first see The Joker from behind, there is some halo-ing going on)
but the 35mm footage, like 80% of the film, looks (at least to me) a bit too processed, edgy. I'm sure on say a 50" plasma it looks great but on a FP at 92", the EE is distracting, at least to me. It actually draws my eye to it at times.

To me, reference means, as good as the best out there and as good as it could potentially be. Unfortunately, this is neither IMHO.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

How far do you sit from the screen?

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

10' from a 92" screen.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I sit 7' from a 7' screen with an Epson 1080up shooting the image and the PQ looked fantastic. I didn't notice any EE, the image was clean, sharp, detailed, colors were spot on, blacks were fantastic. I'd give it a clean bill of health.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Ron, there is DEFINITELY EE, sharpening, halos, ringing whatever you want to call it on the disc. Whether it is an issue to some is debateable but it's there. Even reviewers giving the disc glowing reviews all comment on it and Xylon has clearly shown in caps directly taken from the disc that it is there.

Blu-ray Review: The Dark Knight | High-Def Digest

"Unfortunately, my caveat is that there is edge enhancement that results in visible edge halos. While the encode is otherwise rock solid -- I found no artifacts, such as aliasing or pixelization -- the edge enhancement, if slight, is clearly visible in longer shots (such as the parade sequence). It is the only element of this presentation that deserves any knocks, though hardly a fatal flaw..."

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...commended.html

"The minor issues - so minor I don't think they necessitate a reduction in score - are the occasional presence of slight halos along high contrast edges and some subtle black crush here and there. These issues could also be inherent to the source material..."

The Dark Knight (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - AVS Forum

"I also noticed several scenes that appeared artificially sharpened which resulted in a slight ringing or halo effect around objects. From what I have read many seem very concerned about this. I didn’t find it objectionable as it is not deleterious to image quality but its presence is worth noting..."


It is very possible a source issue since the IMAX print had all the 35mm shot footage digitally smoothed and then sharpened. (What the IMAX site says...)

http://www.imax.com/ImaxWeb/imaxExpe...ovieTechSelect

"
PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE CREATES AN EXTRAORDINARY NEW FILM EXPERIENCE
IMAX digital re-mastering starts by converting a 35mm frame into digital form at very high resolution, capturing all the detail from the original. Our proprietary software mathematically analyses and extracts the important image elements in each frame from the original grainy structure to create a pristine form of the original photography. This is the most complex step in IMAX digital re-mastering.

HOW DO YOU MAKE 35MM MEET THE IMAX STANDARD?
The image on a 35mm film frame is comprised of a fine grain structure like that of all photographic images. This grain when projected on to the IMAX screen looks like a TV channel with bad reception. IMAX DMR removes this grain while preserving the quality of the underlying image making what you see on the screen crystal clear.

DIGITALLY RE-MASTERED, REFINED, AND RESIZED!
To create the brightness and clarity that audiences have come to expect from The IMAX Experience®, IMAX uses a proprietary computer program to make the images sharper than they were originally, while colors are adjusted for the unique technically superior characteristics of the IMAX screen..."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Ron said he "didn't notice any EE". I think the net is filled with screenshots showing that of course there is some haloing (and as I said, I saw it in the theaters) so I don't think he's debating their existence.

But I think it's important to note what Ron actually said. He didn't notice it. And if he didn't notice it, then it wasn't intrusive or a problem for him, screenshot or no.

For myself, I watched about an hour of it, and I too "didn't notice it." I know the scene with the cops fleeing after the shooting scene is the worst offender, and I didn't notice it there in real time because quite frankly that scene of the cops scattering is like 4 seconds long. It's not intrusive and doesn't permeate the scene before or after that part. I actually went back, freeze-framed, and got real close to my TV, and yep, it's there. But while watching I didn't notice it.

FWIW, for the first hour, I would have given this a 4.5/5 PQ score.

I have a 60" Sony SXRD (60-A3000) that I sit 11' away from. EE/Haloing not noticeable/not problematic at that distance for the first hour I've seen. Dave you sit a foot closer to a 32" larger (diagonal) screen. I don't doubt we're seeing different things. But I want to put it in perspective for the many people out there who, let's face it, will be watching this more along the lines of my equipment than yours.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

TOTALLY agree, carlo.

Everyone indeed has different circumstances for viewing and sees things in a different fashion. The scene that this cap is from for instance is an example of where my particular eye gets drawn very quickly. To the halo around the jacket of the cop.


If you click on it, then the enlargy thing on the lower left you will see the full noncompressed 1080x1920 png file taken directly off the disc.

Now some won't see that until it's pointed out. But I saw examples like this throughout the film. Usually when something dark contrasted against a lighter background. To some, no big deal. It bothers me as it attracts my attention. I don't "go looking for flaws" I want to enjoy the film. But the EE also really shouldn't be there. It's not on the original film footage. It was done digitally to "enhance" the image which to me is backwards... It would look ALOT better, more natural, more filmlike and JUST as detailed without it.
I've taken photos in the past for my sister's ad company and her art director would give me total hell if I submitted a picture that sharpened.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Watched my copy from Netflix last night. I started out watching this in a 16:9 screensize, but 3 minutes after the prologue ended I had to zoom it out-all that empty letterbox space was too distracting. I ended up watching the rest of the film zoomed out to about a 2.00-2.1:1 AR. At that ratio, neither the LBX bars nor the overspill from the Imax segments were a big distraction. I'll admit the framing on the Imax material is more enjoyable at 1.78, but overall this was a much happier compromise for my set-up. I no longer find the shifting AR a deal killer. However I'm still not going to be rushing out and buying it anytime soon. While I can honestly say I was never distracted by any specific haloing (and I was looking for it), I too felt the film often had an edgy processed feel to it. This was apparent in the well lit day shots such as when Gordon and Dent enter Dents office space early in the film. I also noticed quite often what I suspect is a detriment of the Imax DMR filtering-the way resolution is lost on a object that moves subtley within a fairly stationary frame. To me this doesn't look like a slight loss of focus so much as a digital slurring of detail that accompanies filtering. The net result to my eyes was an 'ok' representation of the film, but nothing spectacular. How The West Was Won is a spectacular visual experience- TDK was on the whole slightly better than average (jmo, on my set-up).

I see now why I wasn't motivated to catch this more than once at the theater. It has some truly spectacular aspects to it, and some robust thematic notions, but at the same time logic is frequently out the window and weak elements from the first film are used more frquently here to disatarous effect. The voice is embarrassing, and the new suit looks even more ridiculous than the old one-compounded by the fact that it is so often seen in full light. It's hard to stay engaged in a tense dramatic scene like the interogation room, with the combination of the goofy headpiece and the hoarse whispering speec

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Agreed. I noticed the EE 1 or 2 times during the film, but it did NOT take away from the viewing experience for me in any way. Watched at 110" from ~10'. Apparently there is a small number of people who are VERY sensitive to EE in particular and it actualy distracts them somehow, but I am certainly not one of them and overall I would give the PQ of this release a solid 4.5/5 Like you said, colors, black level, shadow detail were all excelent and the EE was EXTREMELY minor in the grand scheme of things, IMO of course Best blu purchase of the year for me. The audio........

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

It must be that I had just finished watching another Warner DVD that has horrific EE (Hey There It's Yogi Bear, if you're curious), but the EE in this went by completely unnoticed by me. I thought the picture looked great, and barely even noticed the shifting aspect ratios---even though I've seen it before, DARK KNIGHT just totally sucks me in 100%.

OTOH, I was watching it for enjoyment rather than critically. Matt Serafini at our website did notice and comment on the EE, but like many wasn't too troubled by it: dOc DVD Review: The Dark Knight (Blu-ray) (2008)

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I think he says "hockey pads."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I always heard "I'm not wearing hockey masks!"

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

subtitles would tell us what he says?

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I'm pretty sure he says "I'm not wearing hockey pads."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I think it's more fun to play "Batphone."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

You Can't even compare the two films, How the west is Cinemascope on Bright open vistas, TDK is dark, claustrophobic and nowhere near as detailed.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

How the West Was Won is Cinerama, not Cinemascope. Though I suspect that was a typo on your part.

Doug

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I have no doubt it's there Dave, too many have made comments about it. But like Carlo stated, I did not notice it, of course, I wasn't going out of my way to look for it either.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Gotcha, Ron.

How's the driftwood theater doing these days? We moved back east and now have a toddler toddling through the Cinemack every night!

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Variable AR? No big deal.
EE? No big deal.
Movie Quality? Big Deal. And it was excellent.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Well said. Totally agree.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I think the aspect ratio and general video quality, including the presence or absence of edge-enhancement, certainly are "big deals." Of course, video quality means nothing if the film itself is crummy, but I certainly wouldn't call a halo-ridden pan-and-scan transfer of a film I liked "no big deal."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I think he meant it in relation to this particular film, as in: The VAR doesn't bother me and the EE is not bothersome either (so, "no big deal"). I doubt if he considered either the AR or the video quality to be seriously subpar he would shrug it off without a care (not that I know him, but if he's here, chances are he would care if either of those things was seriously deficient or bothersome).

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Correct.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Unless you have a constant height setup, the variable AR is a non-issue. The way the film is cut you barely notice the changes. I saw the film in both IMAX and standard 35mm and I definitely preferred the IMAX, and I'm glad this presentation was on the Blu-ray. Sure, I think they should have put a constant AR on the disc as well, but the change is not distracting at all.

I'm viewing on a 104" diagonal Stewart screen using a Sony VPL-VW40, just for the record.

While there is some EE, I didn't find it bothersome. Sure, again, I would prefer that it not be there, but it didn't distract me the way EE has on some other discs.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

It's a logical error to use a constant height projection technique when viewing IMAX images.

In fact, for exactly the same reason CHP is used to assure that wider screen images are indeed wider, IMAX images should be higher than normal images. It's the same conceptual principle, but to be applied to a different direction in the x-y plane of the screen.


Cees