The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

No doubt. But hey, some people here are saying that the AR change isn't noticable if you're engrossed in the film. If that's the case, great. Maybe it's one of those subliminal things and enhances the film. I'll know after viewing, but, still have my reservations and would have preferred both versions on the Blu.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

no doubt that blockbuster video and netflix will have people complaining about it. I already it mentioned tothe blockbuster manager. I just know that they will get alot of calls.

Jacob

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Yeah I'm still here, sitting back and enjoying the lunacy.

Popcorn movies, popcorn threads, all fun to watch..

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I warned my wife going in about the aspect ratios, expecting her to say something during the movie. About halfway thru, she said she hadn't noticed it at all, and I had to actually point it out to her the next time it happened.

I just picked up my first BD player on Black Friday, and looking at the reviews of this BD vs. DVD, I'm glad I did. I know in addition to the shifting AR's folks are also complaining about edge-enhancement, but it appears that the BD is superior in that regard as well.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Well that answers my internal question. I didn't warn my female friend about the aspect ratio change so I wondered if she just didn't see it because I hadn't told her about it. Since you warned your wife, and I don't think a woman has posted yet on this thread, I think we can state that *women can't detect the AR change!*

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I just found out that the collector's edition Blu-Ray doesn't have nipples on the box. What a joke...

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

lol! Can I join you?

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

^^as long as you get extra buttery topping.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

At this point, I would not trust any form of extra buttery topping...

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Not even Margarine-based?

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

cue Homer voice...


"mmmm..... buttery topping"

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

haha very funny ... NOT!!!

why is so hard to understand that many of us want a blu-ray with the film presented in it's original theatrical aspect ratio? in the case of tdk there two versions. that is what warner bros. should've been put on br.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Blu ray's latest feature.....

flexi-ratio

Sounds annoying but I haven't seen it either so I'm not complaing just yet...

Although it might be a bummer for those of us with constant heighth set ups.

The 2:35.1 portions are going to look really small now without the lens in place...

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

No nips NO SALE!

cue Homer voice...


"mmmm..... Batsuit nips"

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Sad to say, you are just wasting your breath. If single Aspect ratio supporters haven't been convinced in 11 pages of discussion then they never will be. In fair turnabout, the same applies to anyone who supports a dual Aspect Ratio release. This Blu-ray release has been fucked up by Warner Bros. and Nolan, but the fact of the matter is that most posters in this thread are happy with that reality. What has been done is done.

Edit: Took out the last line. Not my place to say that since it is your thread.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

The argument really hasn't revolved around that issue. It is very easy to understand why many people want what you're asking for. The issue is really one of expectations vs ownership. I want the changing AR version. Therefore, I'm happy with the current release (or will be when I get it). The reality is, however, that I am not the owner of the material in question. I am subject to the wishes of the owner and my only recourse is to vote with my wallet. I have no "rights" to be satisfied by the decisions of the owner. The owner is free to release whatever it wants and I am free to consume it or not. Nolan and Warner have made a decision. It is their right and I have no "entitlement" to having my preference satisfied over theirs (assuming mine did not coincide with theirs in this case). I have the right to be disappointed, but I have no ownership stake in the product itself.

Some have dismissed VAR objections in a way that goes too far, in my opinion, as the dismissals imply one has no real basis for objecting at all. But others have asserted they have a "right" to the version they saw in the cinema--and that is false. They have the right to be disappointed at the lack of that option, not the right to have the option itself. That rests in the hands of the owner.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Very well said, Paul.

And no, no popcorn for me -- I don't care much for popcorn even for a decent popcorn flick like TDK.

_Man_

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

It's just too funny. The only reason VAR only supporters are so supportive and understanding of the owner's (Warner) rights is because they are getting the version they want. I can just imagine the explosion of whining and bitching that would have occurred if the owner (Warner) had denied their employee's (Nolan) request to have this movie released in the VAR. The amount of posts with the word's NO VAR = NO SALE would have dwarfed this thread and there wouldn't have been any stupid popcorn icons being posted either.

The thing is, if that had happened, I and others would have been in the thread taking the exact same position that both versions should be on any home video release. It is heart warming to see how understanding and concerned you all are for the rights of the owner, since most of you got what you wanted. I hope to see a continuation of that understanding when an owner releases a film in a form or manner that doesn't meet your requirements.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I was/am going to buy the Blu-ray regardless of whether or not it contained the IMAX aspect ratio. I haven't seen the Blu-ray yet, but I don't think it's *that* big of a deal.

Furthermore, I think it's ridiculous, scary, and sheer Totalitarianism to suggest I, like any consumer, should have the right force Warner or Nolan to release the Blu-ray to my preference based on any sort of rational ethics or morality - I don't care how it was released theatrically. I much prefer the original Star Wars movies too, but the idea has never crossed my mind that the government or "consumers" should force Lucas to release them on Blu-ray at some point.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I would have been disappointed, but I like the film enough to where I would have bought the release still. Even when I haven't bought a release because of only containing a version of the film I do not prefer (Last of the Mohicans Extended Cut DVD) I fully defend the filmmaker's right to present the film the way he desires. If Fox releases a BD of that film with only the extended cut in the near future, however, I may pick it up because I no longer even have the theatrical cut VHS widescreen release anymore, and while I prefer the theatrical cut, the extended cut is still a film I enjoy.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Now I'm advocating Totalitarianism.
Then I guess none of us should have been complaining when Warner and other owners were releasing P&S and non-anamorphic versions of their movies, because that was agitating for Totalitarianism?
I'm done. This forum sure has changed since I first joined.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

lol. You got it!

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

You have the right to complain and the right to purchase or not purchase this release; advocating you have the RIGHT to Dark Knight on Blu-ray as you see fit is another. It's Nolan/Warner's movie (however way they contractually agreed upon) - not yours - sorry. You seem to be suggesting that you as a citizen - as a consumer - has a right in someone else's individual freedom, art, and intellectual property (via public ownership here) whether it be details such as AR or anything else related. That my friend is a form of Totalitarianism.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

For those who have NOT seen it in IMAX format and want to know exactly what scenes were shot this way, I made a list of them.

I have NOTHING to say about this debate because I don't give a damn about it anymore (hence the ) but I'll post for the hell of it.

Here goes:

IMAX Scenes are as follows:

-The entire opening bank robbery and quick night time cityscape shot that followed the sequence

-The city shot closing in on the Wayne Enterprises building

-The seaplane landing close to Bruce's sailboat

-The helicopter flyover of Hong Kong, including Lucius Fox's walk across the helipad and into the L.S.I. Holdings lobby where he surrenders his cellphone

-The establishing shot of Bruce standing atop a building in his new Batsuit, where he fires sticky bomb charges on the L.S.I. windows. He then jumps and glides to the building. (This is intercut with 2.35:1 shots of Lau in his office)

-The explosion of the sticky bombs behind Batman and Lau, leading to the seaplane's flyover and skyhook extraction of the two.

-The short close-up of Wayne's penthouse apartment for the party sequence

-The shot closing in on Batman as he stands on the Sears Tower (if cropped without adjustments, Batman's head would be missing in the 2.35:1 version)

-The very short overhead shot looking down on the Police funeral parade.

-The entire sequence involving Harvey Dent ("the Batman") being escorted by SWAT team convoy to central holding, when Joker lures them underground to destroy the convoy and eventually the Tumbler. This is the longest IMAX sequence in the film and covers everything including the Batpod's reveal and blasting through the subway to the Joker truck flip-over, ending after Joker is captured by Gordon.

-Short cuts of Batman racing on the Batpod to find Rachel after the Joker interrogation.

-The shot of Joker hanging out of the police car like a dog, as well as the aftermath of the building explosion where Rachel was being kept, including Alfred's reading of her letter to Bruce. It lasts up until Bruce is resting in a chair with parts of his Batsuit on the floor.

-The Lamborghini racing down streets to find Gordon and Reese, intercut with 2.35:1 shots of the police barricades and hospital interiors.

-The infamous Joker walking out of the hospital explosion, intercut with 2.35:1 scenes of reporter Mike Engel being pulled into a school bus and screaming patients inside the bus.

-The overhead shot of the explosion aftermath.

-A short shot of Gotham being evacuated.

-Various shots of the SWAT team taking over the Prewitt building where hostages, clowns and Joker are located. This has brief 2.35:1 shots of the same scene, as well as 2.35:1 shots of the ferry scenes.

-More of this sequence, this time with Batman's sonar vision in IMAX, along with Lucius overseeing the action. The IMAX scenes continue right up until Joker is tied up by Batman after throwing him off the building, but all the ferry scenes in between all of this are 2.35:1.

-The closing montage beginning with Gordon's eulogy (at Dent's funeral) and epilogue speech about who and what Batman is, leading up to the on-screen title card.

I don't think I've missed any, but if I did add them to the list so people who haven't seen the IMAX version will know in advance.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

It seems to me that some of the more ardent defenders of the Blu-ray are going too much on the defensive, overzealously defending the decision of a filmmaker they idolize and resenting those who dare question it.

Why else bring "rubber nipples" into the argument? It seems to be just a way of offending people who want the film presented on BD in the same ratio it was presented in theaters.

I don't think anybody's arguing that Nolan and Warner be legally obligated to put out the OAR version, but it's funny that in a Home Theater Forum of all places, people are acting as if there's nothing wrong with filmmakers who chose not to present their film in OAR and that there's something wrong with home theater enthusiasts perturbed by such a decision.

To me, Nolan and Warners are refusing to put TDK on BD in OAR. That's wrong, pure and simple. It's an act that goes against pretty much all the standards and ethics that Home Theater stands for. Doesn't matter if it's a decision by Kubrick or his estate, Nicholas Meyer, Coppola and Storaro, or that guy who directed Austin Powers. It sucks that these filmmakers have chosen not to have their films presented on Home Video the same way they were presented in theaters. It doesn't necessarily mean I won't buy them or be unable to watch them as Apocalypse Now, Star Trek VI, and many open matte Kubrick films (before last year's widescreen releases) got a fair amount of rotation in my home. I just didn't like that they were not in OAR.

To me, the fishy thing is that the film is not presented the same way on DVD. If they were consistent, I'd be a little less wary of "artistic choices". If Nolan genuinely prefers the version on BD with the IMAX scenes presented in the 16 X 9 ratio and that's his artistic intent that I should have to respect (and to many of the supporters, not be justified in having a problem with), then why isn't that version out on DVD as well?

Wouldn't that mean that Nolan and Warners are intentionally stiffing people who only own DVD players? The overwhelming majority of consumers still only have DVD players and may not possess the means to upgrade to Blu-Ray, or the desire to upgrade just now. If Nolan's so serious about his preferred version then shouldn't he be as much, even MORE concerned about how it's presented on DVD as well?

There's probably a huge number of TDK fans who only own DVD players and who would love to have the VAR version available to them. After all, that's the version Nolan has gone on record that he personally prefers and is more suited to his artistic intentions and vision. By ignoring the wants and desires of millions of fans who just want to see his preferred version, frankly, makes him come across as a bit of a dick!

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

For the record, when I brought up rubber nipples it was all in Swinton-esque good fun.

Again, OAR has become overrated in comparison to the real goal, which is filmmakers' intended presentation. As I said before, OAR is a means to an end, not the end itself.

As for the DVD - yes, Nolan and Warner are "intentionally stiffing" that crowd. Nolan has gone on record stating that he believes the HD resolution of the Blu-ray allows for the IMAX scenes to come across with the intended result when opened up. By inference, one can surmise that he doesn't think SD is up to snuff to make any such significant difference, and therefore he left it at the 2.40:1 ratio.

I don't think Nolan cares as much about larger audience. He knew that most theatrical presentations would be the scope version, yet he shot many scenes with the ideal presentation being on IMAX; he knew that most home video presentations would be in SD, yet he designed the HD version to be reflective of the IMAX experience. It's a pretty consistent stance, IMO.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I also suspect that the fact that many/most of the DVDs will be played on (smaller) 1.33:1 screens factors into it - opening up to 1.78:1, which is still going to be seen as letterboxed, doesn't have quite the impact as opening up to the full screen does in IMAX and on BD. It's not the specific 1.44/1.78/whatever aspect ratio that Nolan and company are going for, but the way the viewer's brain processes it.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

^ That's a great point, and one I had not even thought about.