The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I think Nolan should supply us 10 versions of the film. It's our right as the audience to be given them all:

1. Varied aspect ratios to replicate as close as possible the IMAX experience.
2. Scope 2.40:1 version
3. 4x3 Full Screen version. If it's out on DVD, he can put it on BD.
4. Black and white version
5. Sepia toned version
6. Version where film goes to 3D for every scene not involving Two-Face (trust me, this version really brings to life the 2-sided personality of the character when he's NOT presented in 3D like everything else)
7. Alternate version with Johnny Depp as The Joker
8. Batsuit with nipples version
9. Version where Alfred is diguised as one of the copy-cat Batmans
10. Mirror Universe version where the Joker is defending Gotham against the evils of the goatee wearing Bruce Wayne

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Doug,

I was referring to the DVD director's cut version of this title, absent the narration, which for years was the only way you could view this title on DVD. However, I was fortunate to have kept the LD theatrical version.
This concern is no longer valid because of the superb Blur-ray release with all versions included that you mentioned.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

If he had actually made all those versions and released them theatrically then by all means they should be on any home video release. However, the first two are the only ones he made and released theatrically; therefore, they are the only two that legitimately should be on the DVD and/or BD release.

The attempt at distortion and extrapolation falls flat, but by all means continue to keep trying if it makes you happy. The winky smiley at the end of the post doesn't cover up its real purpose.

Edit: I just thought of something. If Nolan decided to have a new vision and, in the future, wanted a B&W version of TDK then by all means it should be included on any future DVD or BD release, along with the original two versions that are now in existence. So your post, although filled with ridiculous examples, is not completely without merit.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Funny, that mirrors the experience I posted earlier where the friend with whom I went to see it in Imax said she didn't notice anything about the aspect ratio change. Or maybe it's just women who don't notice aspect ratios.

My guess is that upwards to 95%+ of the people who purchase this BD either won't notice or won't have a negative view of it. Not to belittle the position of those who do have a problem, just that WB is unlikely to remedy this if the vast majority of buyers won't have a problem, and the sales of a second, 2.40:1 constant ratio BD will likely be miniscule [BD sales are already small and if 5% or less of BD buyers will buy the second version, that's really a small sum] and not worth the re-mastering and re-pressing.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

You took her to a standard IMAX theatre and she didn't notice a change in aspect ratios? Are you sure she didn't just fall asleep while watching the movie?

I find it a bit amazing that someone would be that unaffected by such a change on such a large screen. What was your personal experience?

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

(Deep breath...)

Okay...


Not exactly. I see two points of view. One is those that think they are being some sort of artistic purists by insisting on the IMAX version as the "director's intent", even though it is obvious that the "intent" of the IMAX photography was to be seen IN IMAX. The other point of view is that there are TWO versions of the film that people saw theatrically and we are only being given one of those on Blu-ray. To those people, it does not seem unreasonable to want to seen the film in the same format they saw it theatrically.

To those that claim technical or market limitations for not including both versions, I have one word for you...How The West Was Won. Adding an additional BD25 to what will surely be the biggest selling Blu-ray disc in the format's short history is truly a no-brainer when one considers Warner did not have a problem including two versions of the film on the BD release of a 45 year old catalog title.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

when I saw the dark knight in imax. you were so invested in the story that the screen change didn't matter. you might notice it a bit at the beginning.but then you just enjoy the movie. maybe that is what happened? I know it did for me.

Jacob

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

She was definitely awake. Mesmerized by Ledger's performance probably. It was her second time seeing it, first in Imax.

My own experience was that I noticed it, but since the top/bottom of the Imax screen is out of my peripheral vision, it was not jarring at all to me. I noticed the switch the first couple of times it happened, and then when I just settled in to watch the movie (which I loved) the AR changes registered in my brain but did not take me out of the movie.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I for one thought Brandon's post (top of this page) was very funny. Makes me glad I waited until now to unsubscribe from the thread.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Me, I'm withholding serious judgement on Brandon's piece less he change the content (artist prerogative you know) or he expands his verse with an IMAX version, if you will.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

At the end of the day, Warners decided if they were going to do up HTWWW on BD right, it was worth it to drive sales from a marketing perspective on a title that needs the extras to give prospective buyers another incentive to upgrade to the BD edition.

Obviously, Warners and Nolan don't feel that TDK on BD is going to need to add a 2.40:1-only edition in the initial release of TDK on BD given its recent box office performance, and the built-in demand for the product released before Christmas this year. Alot of the decision to offer Nolan's version on BD is based on marketing and timing. Perhaps if enough people actually wrote letters to Warner requesting the "true" 2.40:1 theatrical release on BD, and the number of letters was high enough to be deemed profitable for Warners, it might happen, but if a small but vocal (via online posts) percentage of BD consumers are bothered by the lack of a 2.40:1 version, Warner's inaction on the topic is pretty much the same as them telling that small percentage: "tough nuggies." For that small percentage, they have 3 choices: buy, don't buy, wait and hope. Life's too short to cut your nose off to spite your face on this issue (if you enjoyed TDK earlier and want to see it at home on BD or want to see it for the first time on BD).

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

That's five words. And to show that accurate numbers aren't just pedantry:

Neither of the discs on HTWWW was a BD25; both were BD50s, as indeed a second disc with an alternate version would have had to be for TDK.

The reason for releasing alternate versions of a 45-year-old catalogue title shot in a unique filming format of historical significance that is no longer used (and rarely exhibited) should not require any explanation and has zero applicability to the present discussion. If someone else had made this shoddy a comparison, you'd be among the first to point out the flaw.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Humor. You might want to try it sometime. Sheesh. I'm glad some could appreciate it.

I was simply using humor to point out that there are HUNDREDS of decisions Nolan made that influenced this film. The IMAX ratio is but one of them, and by no means is it even the most significant, IMO. Complaining about how he presents his film is to me no different than complaining about how he cast the film, how he shot the film, how the actors delivered their lines, etc.

Why is the theatrical presentation considered paramount anyway in today's market? If anything, more people see films in their homes now than at the theater. It makes sense to me that in this day and age, if the filmmaker is around, that the home video version is often the definitive version. It has the biggest audience, and it has the longer distribution.

Don't get me wrong - I understand the idea of presenting something in the home to best recreate a theatrical experience. But practicality suggests that in most cases a filmmaker considers the home video release just as much, if not more than, the theatrical release.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

pretty obvious that it was a joke.

edwin seems to have made his point hasn't he?( i don't agree with him)

also hasn't this entire topic come to an end and become a bore, is there any good reason to keep it going?
this going.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

We don't know how small the percentage of people dissatisfied with having only the IMAX version of the film as it is not yet released so most people haven't even seen it yet, and how would we know anyway.


Actually, there's a fourth, but I suppose we don't discuss Bit Torrent in mixed company so we'll leave that there.


Actually, I consider the applicability of these two examples nearly identical. HTWWW has historical significance and TDK has popular significance (one of the highest grossing films in history).


Shoddy? Well, excuse me for assuming the readers of this thread might actually have some knowledge on the subject. For the readers in the peanut gallery, I was not saying HTWWW was on a BD25. My point was an additional BD25 is all this would be required to include the scope version of TDK in the BD release. This is a new production with a very clean source (That means it compresses better) and no additional material would have to be included on an additional disc. A 152 minute 2.40:1 film with a TrueHD track, and likely a few more 640 kb/s tracks would fit easily on a BD25 with the bit rates Warner gets out of their VC-1 encoders.

My apologies for non-specificity.

(As for the five words not one part, if you don't get that old joke, that's your problem.)

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I went to the one in Manchester, CT. The one in Toronto sounds like a really special one from what I read. I believe the one in Manchester is probably more in line with yours, but I absolutely loved every second of watching it on that screen.

**EDIT**
In going back and reading the thread from page 7 where I first posted my comment up to now I would have to say that the IMAX screen in Manchester is a standard IMAX. It certainly isn't a dome, but it is also not an IMAX lite screen.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

My apologies. I mistook you for the Robert George I used to know.

This reader has enough technical knowledge to know that this is a questionable assertion -- at least if the goal is to achieve no diminution in image quality -- but it has the advantage that you'll almost certainly never have to put it to the test. And you've managed to dress it up with some credible-sounding rhetoric. Well done!

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I'm just curious if some Viewers, perhaps new to HD, might think something is defective with their disc. Will there be a disclaimer at the beginning re: the changing AR's?
Will be interesting to read the "reviews" on Amazon after it streets.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I see your point. I would suppose that most if not all of the people that initially purchased the title would have already seen the film in its theatrical run, bonded with it for any number of reasons, and this group would represent the vast majority of purchasers. It occurs to me that the theatrical version and the home video version should be one in the same as well as this just makes smart business sense.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Actually, I forgot the real 4th option: Rental.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Oh got you. I misunderstood your post.

Doug

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Patrick- You forgot about option 5: Watch it on a rear projection set and tape black painted cardboard on the screen to cover anything above and below the 2.40:1 image.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

My understanding is the framing isn't the same as the theatrical version when you do that. If it were, most constant-height set-ups wouldn't have a problem.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Frankly I find the fans fanning the flames of the corporate sales pitch that the Bd version is how this should ideally be seen in home, to be comical.
WB is right now actively engaged in differentiating Bd releases of high profile/big push titles specifically to make the case to consumers to adopt the format. This is a strategy that a few of us here for the longest time were saying was critical. Simple as that. The format needs compelling exclusive content- something more than a few more pieces of EPK fluff in the extras section, if they want to woo film buff collectors rather than merely early adopter video/gadget-philes. While I'm sympatico with Robert George in most of his comments, to me it's clearly apparent why HTWWW was accorded a more comprehensive exclusive configuration and why TDK was only given this. HTWWW is not going to be a candidate for double dippping anytime soon, whereas the LATEST this will be re-issued in a different configuration is three years from now...and possibly even sooner. What bites is how much more improved the visual aspects of that disc will likely be since it will be almost a given that a second dip will necessitate a new justification for purchase. What better differentation than to offer the 'other' AR version of the film (w/ the obligatory "FIRST TIME ON BD!" sticker) -a version which wasn't nearly as negatively processed for exhibition as the IMAX version was, and thus one likely to yield a finer image. Not only do they appeal to the fanboy completeists who need to own every different iteration of a logoed product, but they appeal to the videophiles who will upgrade any popular given title if feedback says there is an improvment, as well as people like me who want a version to use more seamlessly with a constant height setup. Throw in some better special features (like a comprehensive overview of all the viral marketing stuff ...stuff that already exist) and you expand that double dip pool even further

This is a full on no-brainer.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I would be interested in any additional information on this. If there are specific shots or scenes that have been cited (authoritatively) as framed differently/incorrectly when the IMAX shots are simply matted to match the 35mm shots, I'd like to know so I can do some comparison. I have been able to compare the opening bank robbery sequence and the 2.40:1 framing looks fine here.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Robert, there are a few shots I know definitively aren't center "slices." The aerial shot of the bank robbers on the zip line, or the close up of the bat signal as Gordon destroys it with an ax.

Now while these are *slightly* different, they work perfectly fine as center extractions, so if you were to judge the framing yourself you probably wouldn't think they would have changed anything, and I think that's how much of the movie is.

The only shot I know of that just doesn't work centered is this one;



This was taken from the top portion of the Imax frame, and when centered for 2.35 Batman gets cut off at the top

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

... and it better be seamless branching or I'm not buying!

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Nicholas, you are a trip.