The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Quoted for fucking truth.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

For my part, I cannot remember ever saying that the director's intent is some sacrament. I don't hold with the view that a director's intent automatically makes a film of his/hers the only and best version. There are plenty of examples where the director's "preferred" version does not improve and, in some cases, may actually make a film worse. Two that come immediately to mind are APOCALYPSE NOW REDUX and THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.

AN:R is not improved by Coppola going back and tinkering with it to create his "definitive" version. To his credit, he doesn't have the arrogance to demand that we only watch his supposedly definitive version. He is obviously intelligent enough to realize that both versions of AN are his and both versions are available. I thank the man for allowing his audience to make up their own minds on which version they prefer to watch.

TG, TB, and TU extended cut which was designed to posthumously recreate the director's "vision" is another film that is not in necessarily improved by the reinsertion of extraneous footage. Except for one small sequence, the rest of the added footage only succeeded in making the film longer. the phrase, "sometimes you have to kill your babies" aptly fits some of the footage that was put back into that film.

Now, as far as director's intent goes, I like to see the director's "preferred" version, so that I can compare it to his or her other versions of the film and then I like to be able to make up my own mind as to which one I prefer to watch. I'm not someone that suscribes to the misbegotten belief that the director is always right and, therefore, I should only watch the version that he personally likes.

That is why I respect directors like Ridley Scott and Coppola. They may like their later versions better than their earlier efforts but they are not so arrogant to demand that their audience watch only the version THEY PREFER. That is called professionalism in my book. Nolan's alleged insistence that the BD of TDK contain only his "preferred" version shows a lack of professionalism, to some degree. Both versions of TDK are his film and he should have had the professionalism to realize that and ensure that both OARs were available on the BD. He should have had enough recognition of the individuality of his audience to let them make up their own minds on which one they prefer to watch, not try to force every audience member into conforming with his wishes.

Edit: Took out the more inflammatory statements. No one is perfect.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Okay, I think I'm done with this pathetic nonsense now.

Enjoy the disc or not, probably not, I no longer give a damn.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Good call. Its hopeless!

I am done here as well. Hope some of you can enjoy this BR as much as I have and will again and again.

Take care

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I can say the same about your view on the matter, but I don't mind you continuing to post your no less "hopeless" position.

The "pathetic" statement has been edited. I agree that it was too inflammatory. I also edited some other language that I decided could be interpreted the wrong way.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

It's his film, not his audience's. The variable-AOR presentation found on the Blu-ray is how he wants the film to be experienced in a home environment. Period, end of story. He's hardly "unprofessional" for doing what he wants with his movie, and he's under no obligation to pander to his audience's preferences. He's the artist, and thank God that the artist had the final say in the matter. In Hollywood, that's typically NOT the case.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Some of you guys are so dense we could call this the black hole forum.

"The gravitational field is so strong even reason and common sense can't escape."

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Ok, now I am done.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Thanks for proving my point.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

And thank YOU for proving mine

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I can't believe this has gone on for nearly 10 pages.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

You think this is bad, check out the AVS "Dark Knight PQ issues" thread. Talk about ridiculous.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

My goodness, MAN! I thought you were already "done" (at least 2x already in the same afternoon/early evening.


To *ALL*,

This matter has definitely gone into the realm of philosophy whether y'all want to admit it or not. Some seem to not recognize it adequately (or not understand the philosophical point and practical implications that some others make). Until *all* of y'all can get to the point of being able to actually see (and understand adequately) the other persons' POV, you're just gonna do nothing more than speaking to the wall (or the "hand" perhaps).

And this probably goes mainly for those who seem be making this thing too "black and white" w/ blanket statements like "this is only correct/valid way to see it no matter what". Chill out and just agree to disagree for now, if you really do not "get" what the other person is saying. It's ok to admit (at least silently to yourself) that you don't fully understand the other person's POV on the facts of the matter (and whether the other POV is actually equally or maybe even more valid).

OK now... Carry on...

_Man_

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

This isn't necessary if we just make it a personal war.

First lets take a moment to uniformly define the two groups of thought within the thread; pro-variable aspect ratio supporters, or ProVARs, and anti-variable aspect ratio supporters, the NoVARs.

Now lets set the goal, the format of "The Dark Knight" on Bluray disc.

When viewed like this it's actually 10 pages of very rewarding content for a Provar, because they've already won the war and the teary eyed Novars can just suck it.

---

Next week I'll put an end to the Palistinian/Israeli conflict.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Actually I think the "final say in the matter" is reserved to each individual who buys or doesn't buy this title (or any other title for that matter)and isn't that really what it's all about....the final $$$ take.
When I purchase a title, I expect to see the version I saw in the theaters. That's not too much to expect is it. For a director or anyone that alters the theatrical presentation for whatever purpose while restricting viewing to only the altered version commits an unpardonable transgression in my book and I will not buy the product no matter how much I appreciate the film.
Two examples come to mind: Ridley Scott's DVD director's cut of Blade Runner and Michael Mann's expanded edition of Last of the Mohicans.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

FWIW, I consider Nolan's decision to be creatively pragmatic given the constraints of the conventional 16x9 AR for BD.

If you think about it, the 2.35:1 version in non-IMAX theaters is a more MAR'd version than the BD version. Nolan is trying to give BD owners more of TDK then was seen by conventional theater-goers, and he's getting raked over the coals for the decision.

If it bothers "you" that much, just throw up some mattes on your TV when you play the TDK BD, or smaller mattes on your projector if it's pragmatic for you.

I don't think the BD market is large enough to support a 2.35:1-only version, and a modified Imax version, plus it would be confusing for consumers and retailers alike if 2 versions were available now.

Could Warners and company have tried using seamless branching to fit both versions on one 50GB BD? Perhaps, but not only would you be diminishing video quality overall (20 extra minutes added to a running time of 154 minutes would impact video quality), it would be a production fraught with peril if it caused stuff not to work (BD-Live, IME, commentaries, etc), and a black eye on a high-profile BD release such as TDK is not something the BD industry needs right now.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

To be fair, Xylon's screen caps thread shows some pretty obvious EE on THE DARK KNIGHT, and even many of the pro-reviews have mentioned EE. A couple of the screen-shots look pretty bad, and while I'm not one to rely entirely on screen-shots, I don't see why THE DARK KNIGHT on Blu-ray should have any added EE, and like I said even many of the pro-DARK KNIGHT BD reviews have mentioned that it's present.

Vincent

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Totally agree.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Maybe Mr Nolan did too much.....or not enough.
I'm thinking of Ron Howard's approach in presenting Apollo 13 in both widescreen and IMAX versions. He just did it on 2 separate discs.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I think these two paragraphs merit quoting for emphasis, for they are excellent points.

I would *not* want to risk 174 minutes on a single BD, especially given how much more on-screen action there is compared to say The Godfather, which has a lot of static shots and can use lower compression rates for those scenes. Give me the best PQ/AQ possible.

And yes, to release two versions would be confusing to a developing market. In fact, one could argue it would be confusing to an established market, which is probably why there aren't two versions available on DVD.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Deleted. Changed my mind. I've expressed my feelings on this issue and obviously it has gone about as far as it can go when someone starts posting that other people can suck it. Just for the record I'm not anti-variable AR.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I do not own a copy of Iron Man.

Just kidding.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

That's a shame. In the case of Blade Runner at least, it is one of the finest home video presentations ever released. In that case I truly do not understand your position, when Blade Runner includes every cut of the movie ever released.

Doug

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I don't think that would work as some have said that it appears that not every shot has been pulled from the center of the IMAX frame for the 2.35:1 extraction.

Doug

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Others have stated in this thread that the alleged edge enhancement was visible in the theatrical release and is likely the result of filtration used on the cameras.

Doug

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I have to disagree with this. The director's cut of Troy at 196 min on HD-DVD looks spectacular and includes lossless audio. That is with 20 gigs less space and somewhat less bandwidth to work with. There is no reason that an extra 20 min couldn't have been included on Dark Knight.

Doug

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Actually what I believe has been said is that some EE was noticed in the 35mm segments of the IMAX version*, which makes sense seeing as how the DMR process that's used to digitally convert 35mm footage to IMAX involves digital grain reduction and digital "sharpening" of the 35mm material. I haven't seen any mention of folks noticing the EE in 35mm prints. There's really no reason for the DMR-processed 35mm material to have been used for the Blu-ray, if that is in fact what happened.

Vincent

* Which I noticed during some shots when I saw THE DARK KNIGHT in IMAX. It honestly didn't bother seeing as how brilliant the overall IMAX presentation of the film was (ESPECIALLY the native IMAX footage), but I definitely did notice the occasional edge halos during 35mm blow-up sections and noted them during viewing.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

Agree with Doug on this point.

Also, Carlo's use of THE GODFATHER is flawed because while, yes, THE GODFATHER is a "slower" film with more "static" shots, it's also a very grainy film, and grain needs a lot of bits to encode correctly. Plus, THE GODFATHER is entirely 1.78:1. taking up the full HD frame for its almost 3-hour running time, whereas the bulk of THE DARK KNIGHT is 'Scope, which is itself easier to encode since a sizable number of pixels are taken up by the unmoving, unchanging black bars.

Vincent

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

I received this disc today and promptly viewed it.

I just want to add my two cents to the issue and say that, for my money, the alternating ARs are hardly noticeable. I thought for sure this was going to annoy the hell out of me but I didn't even notice it after the first "shift."

When the movie was done I asked my girlfriend if she'd noticed it and she hadn't noticed it at all.

I'm just saying that some people who've already made up their minds without seeing it might be surprised by how much of a non-issue it turned out to be ... to me at least.

Re: The Dark Knight changing Aspect Ratio feels like a Joke

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