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Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

#1
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11/11/08 at 1:53pm
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This was one of my first HD-DVDs and it was amazing, both the PQ and SQ were outstanding.

I bought the Blu-ray release when it first streeted (my mistake for not checking specs) and went to spin it last night only to find no lossless track, no TrueHD like the HD-DVD.

After watching this last night with the standard DD 5.1 track (which is far inferior to the TrueHD track) I am left wondering what happend, a lossless track already existed how can it possibly not get on the disc?

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#2
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11/11/08 at 1:59pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

In the early days of Warner's releases they would have the lossless track on HD-DVD only. This was mainly due to the studio being initially HD-DVD only, but changing to dual format support before the initial launch titles. Some of the upper execs at Warner at the time were pushing for HD-DVD to win the format war. Obviously, things turned out differently. Fortunately, this discrepancy in disc spec only occurred for a few titles, and the releases ended up being equal for most of 2007/2008 format war, but we're still stuck with those titles being handicapped for the foreseeable future.
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#3
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11/11/08 at 7:32pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

I hope for a lossless on blu-eventually too.
the hd dvd sounds beautiful but this was one of the early warner hd dvds
that had a lower audio volume so you had to turn the volume up about 7 dbs or so to come up to "normal"
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#4
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11/11/08 at 7:52pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Thanks Brandon. Sounds like Warner is a little upset that their support for HD-DVD went no where and now their sticking it to Blu-ray with titles like this and recent releases that aren't getting the right treatment.

Warner is turning out to be one shitty studio.

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#5
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11/12/08 at 6:48pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

If you can afford the Japanese Blu-ray (which is about twice the list price of the USA disc) You'll be able to enjoy Phantom in Dolby True HD or PCM uncompressed 5.1 (BOTH are included!)

Although minus all the extras of the US discs, it's worth owning (IMHO anyway) just for the great picture and sound quality. No need to compensate for the HD DVD's -10db mastering, or the current Blu-ray's lack of lossless audio.

There is no region coding, so it will play fine on USA players. Works flawlessly on my PS3. Simply turn off the Japanese subtitles and enjoy.
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#6
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11/12/08 at 7:22pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

I'd gladly buy that Reed, any links to sites on where to find it. Thanks.

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#7
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11/12/08 at 8:53pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-P
I'd gladly buy that Reed, any links to sites on where to find it. Thanks.

I just Googled "CD Japan". Searched "Phantom" in movies, and found the Blu-ray for 4,700 Yen.

Amazon Japan also has it new for 3,800 Yen. Also available used.

I've used them both in the past for CD's and DVD's.

That's just 2 possibilities. I'm sure that you could find many more.
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#8
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11/12/08 at 11:50pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-P
Thanks Brandon. Sounds like Warner is a little upset that their support for HD-DVD went no where and now their sticking it to Blu-ray with titles like this and recent releases that aren't getting the right treatment.

Warner is turning out to be one shitty studio.
Nah, Warner is doing many great things. Those who were HD-DVD supporters in the upper echelons of the company have either moved on to other companies or are now 100% behind blu-ray. Warner's biggest problem is their size - they're a huge company, and the Home Video department is very big. They plan releases 2-3 years in advance if you believe the insider reports (and there's no reason not to). All things considered, they generally do a fantastic job.
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#9
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11/13/08 at 12:45am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Warner is turning out to be one shitty studio.

Really?!

That's a pretty bold statement to say of a studio that has been
continuously churning out more top-quality product than any other.

Perhaps there is an internal reason you are not aware of that is
preventing them from putting lossless on every BD release you want
them to. It doesn't sound like the exclusion of a lossless track is
something they are purposely doing.

We have a chat forthcoming early next year. I would suggest being
part of it and politely asking them why no lossless.
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#10
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11/13/08 at 6:27am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
Really?!

That's a pretty bold statement to say of a studio that has been
continuously churning out more top-quality product than any other.

Perhaps there is an internal reason you are not aware of that is
preventing them from putting lossless on every BD release you want
them to. It doesn't sound like the exclusion of a lossless track is
something they are purposely doing.

We have a chat forthcoming early next year. I would suggest being
part of it and politely asking them why no lossless.

It's a very bold statement but well deserved. There should be no reason, none, that a Blu-ray disc does not get a lossless track of some kind. This is a hi-def format, right? The 1080p image is only half the deal, lossless audio is makes up that other half and is just as important.

As for the chat, we'll see. I've already sent two emails (nice ones) and a letter with no responses back, nothing. I doubt I'll waste my time with a chat, they seem to not care enough to even send a simple reply.

So, my bold statement still stands, right now what I said is exactly how I feel about Warner.

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#11
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11/13/08 at 9:22am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Warner is turning out to be one shitty studio.

You are entitled to your opinion, but judging them on an early BD release doesn't make a lot of sense. They did make some poor choices regarding sound, everyone complained and they listened. There are still a few titles that were in the pipleine earlier, but everything released recently (catalog and new) has had lossless. Based on cutomer feedback they are committed to lossless and no DNR for future titles. Doesn't sound shitty to me. Not to mention they have some great classic catalog coming in 2009....

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#12
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11/13/08 at 9:40am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

I was going to say the same thing, Adam. Lossless tracks were extremely rare for Warner HD DVDs in 2006 and nonexistent on BDs. Release for PotO was 31 October 2006. It seems that some are just searching for something to complain about.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#13
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11/13/08 at 10:19am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
You are entitled to your opinion, but judging them on an early BD release doesn't make a lot of sense.

As for Phantom, it had a TrueHD track on the HD-DVD so why did it not make it to the BD release. It already existed. As for early BD releases; what about Speed Racer and Journey to the Center of the Earth? Both released within the last month and no lossless. I'm hardly judging them based on early releases.

Searching for something to complain about? Hardly. This has been, and still is, a problem with Warner. And it seems communicating this to them does nothing. I was just very surprised that this title did not get the TrueHD track that already existed.

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#14
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11/13/08 at 10:23am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

I already explained why there was a discrepancy between the Phantom HD-DVD and BD release back in 2006. It was because of inner studio politics at the time.

As for Speed Racer and Journey to the Center of the Earth, it's not as though they started pulling together the BDs of these a month before they were released. The process was probably started well before the theatrical debut of each film.
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#15
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11/13/08 at 10:55am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Ron-
Quote:
As for Phantom, it had a TrueHD track on the HD-DVD so why did it not make it to the BD release. It already existed.


There was room on the HD DVD, but not on the BD. See my note below to Brandon.

Quote:
what about Speed Racer and Journey to the Center of the Earth?

As Brandon and I have said, they had some titles in the pipeline that still came out with DD. When WB committed to releasing titles with lossless after consumers complained they said that there were some titles that were too far along to change. Everything going into the pipeline today has or will have lossless. Your main complaint is about a title over two years old.

Brandon- I think the Phantom BD not having lossless had less to do with politics and more with space. It was on a BD25 and took up 24.7GB. The HD DVD was on a dual layer which gave it 30GB. Back in 2006 there were still a lot of problems with BD50 yields and they were a lot more expensive than the BD25s, so it was probably pure econimics. I'm not saying that there there were never political considerations, I just doubt that this title was one of them.

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#16
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11/13/08 at 11:20am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

By "today" you mean literally TODAY?

Get Smart was a Warner wasn't it.
ust came out a couple weeks ago. J
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#17
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11/13/08 at 11:22am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
Brandon- I think the Phantom BD not having lossless had less to do with politics and more with space. It was on a BD25 and took up 24.7GB. The HD DVD was on a dual layer which gave it 30GB. Back in 2006 there were still a lot of problems with BD50 yields and they were a lot more expensive than the BD25s, so it was probably pure econimics. I'm not saying that there there were never political considerations, I just doubt that this title was one of them.
Valid point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
By "today" you mean literally TODAY?

Get Smart was a Warner wasn't it.
ust came out a couple weeks ago. J
But production on the elements that went into making the disc likely started up to a year ago.
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#18
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11/13/08 at 11:25am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Not sure which today you are referring to. If it is
Quote:
Everything going into the pipeline today has or will have lossless

Then yes I mean today. Like Brandon said
Quote:
As for Speed Racer and Journey to the Center of the Earth, it's not as though they started pulling together the BDs of these a month before they were released. The process was probably started well before the theatrical debut of each film.

Things are in the pipeline for a few months, sometimes longer before they make it to retail.

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#19
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11/13/08 at 11:29am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Brandon is quicker with the mouse (again)

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#20
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11/13/08 at 11:33am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

I've been complaining about Warner's lack of lossless since HD-DVD, they are by far the worst offender of any studio when it comes to not including lossless tracks.

I don't buy the "some titles were too far along to change" statment. Lossless tracks were making there way onto HD-DVD and Blu-ray before these recent titles were considered for Blu-ray.

But if this is true...
Quote:
Everything going into the pipeline today has or will have lossless.
I will be quite happy and change my opinion of Warner. Do you have an official announcement from Warner on that?

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#21
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11/13/08 at 11:37am
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Gregorich
Ron-




Everything going into the pipeline today has or will have lossless. Your main complaint is about a title over two years old.
that is the "today" i referred to.

I still don't completely buy that reasoning.
there have been people saying the everything after "today" thing for a few months now and there are still releases that don't get lossless.

I suppose the "after today" should only refer to everything released theatrically after today, and by today I really
mean within the last month or so.
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#22
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11/13/08 at 12:53pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

I think the best example of how things are changing is the Lossless 1.0 track on the Being There release in January.

However, I do think that Warner may still be hesitant to put lossless on some Direct-to-Video titles, TV titles, and older catalog titles. Hopefully I am proven wrong.
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#23
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11/13/08 at 12:58pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
I will be quite happy and change my opinion of Warner. Do you have an official announcement from Warner on that?

Glad to hear. There is no official announcement, but sites like HTF and The Digital Bits have been commmunicating the frustration about lack of lossless and application of DNR (mostly on New Line titles) to studio executives and have been told that they "get it" and that titles entering the production pipeline at WB will be released with lossless and no DNR. For what it's worth these conversations happened a few months ago back after Fools Gold and the Bucket List were released with just DD and Speed Racer was announced with just DD. There may still be some releases that were in the production pipeline when they made that decision that haven't come out yet that won't have lossless, but with rare expception anything going into it recently should come out with lossless.

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#24
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11/13/08 at 1:03pm
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Re: Phantom of the Opera Blu-ray (where's the lossless track?)

Quote:
I still don't completely buy that reasoning.
there have been people saying the everything after "today" thing for a few months now and there are still releases that don't get lossless

I think you are taking "today" as any title that shows up in the store today, where it is really anything that the studio decides to prep for release and put on the release calendar after today (which was 2-3 months ago).

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