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Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

#1
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11/10/08 at 9:52am
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Ok. I am going to ditch my old Pioneer 480i/p SD DVD player, connected to my new Sony SXRD-KDS-60A3000 via Component cable. I am determined to get the Oppo 980. I'm going to connect it to the Sony via HDMI, with a separate Optical Audio link from the Oppo to my (older, but fine) Denon 5.1 receiver. (I'm a stalwart SD-DVD luddite.)

QUESTION: It has been said here that "an upscaling SD-DVD only player is only worth it IMO if your TV is known to have poor scaling performance..." So, am I making the correct decision? What settings will I have to make on the Oppo and on the Sony to optimize my viewing pleasure? (Will I choose an image number from the Oppo -- 720, 1080, etc -- or turn everything off and let the Sony deal with what comes out of the Oppo without my fiddling? Or, visa versa: Do I make some setting on the Sony that automatically upconverts the HDMI signal from the Oppo?)

As usual, your help is appreciated muchly.

THANK YOU!

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#2
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11/10/08 at 11:48am
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

They both don't need to try and upscale at the same time. Try each one separately (with other's upscaling turned off), and see which one does the best job. That's about all anyone can do, unless someone with the same exact setup as you, has already done the test, and can save you the time..............
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#3
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11/10/08 at 12:43pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Now that I'm sitting here thinking about it, I can't seem to figure out how to ask the Sony to not upconvert. I don't see any documentation on it. Maybe I can't turn the Sony's upconversion "off"?

Maybe it is "off" now and I can't figure out how to turn it "on"?

Huh. Any insight?

(Thanks, Ed!)

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#4
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11/10/08 at 1:02pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

BTW, Ed -- I note in my previous posts on this same stupid issue (I'm a dolt) that you've been very helpful... So... where do I find documentation that allows me to adjust what the TV is doing with the signal? Can I? This Sony TV has more adjustments within adjustments than I have ever seen, but I see nothing at all about adjusting or determining what the TV's own upscaler may me doing or not doing.

Any help?

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#5
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11/10/08 at 2:03pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Maybe... DRC Mode? ("DRC Mode -- High Density, Progressive, Off -- is available only with 480i sources.")



MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#6
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11/10/08 at 2:57pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Not sure what to tell you. I'm repeating what I've read before. I hope to get my first HD tv after the first of the year. Maybe somewhere in the manual. It must say something about it.................

Maybe your tv doesn't upscale, and it relies on the player or receiver to do it? All I can say is read the manual.............
Sorry I'm not morer help with the tv.
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#7
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11/10/08 at 6:57pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Ed... You're like the most knowledgeable guy on my threads!

The manual says nothing of scaling or manipulating the scaling, except for that DRC Mode thing. I set my DVD player to 480i (the basic DVD source) and then fiddled with the DRC Mode.

Did it do anything? I can't really tell. The on-screen display shows the source as "480i," which is what I know the source is transmitting. I do not know what the TV -- which is reputed to have one of the best "upscalers" in the biz -- is doing to that source (is it upscaling it and just not telling me?).

Nor do I know whether or not having an upscaling DVD player like the Oppo will in any way improve or supplant the TV's own upscaler. Will I have a better picture if I get the Oppo and ask it to transmit a 1080 image to the TV (instead of transmitting a 480 pic as I am now limited to by my old DVD player)?

These are pressing questions, because if I can get away without buying a $175 DVD player at the moment I will be sort of relieved and happy. (But if the Oppo would be better, then the money is not an issue.)

Pressing questions!



MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#8
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11/10/08 at 8:08pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

I found your manual online, and I saw this a couple of times:
"Note that this TV displays all video input signals in a resolution of 1,920 dots X 1,080 lines." Did you turn the DRC mode off, and try it?
Only other thing I know to do is contact Sony, and ask them. If you do, let us know what they say?
Good luck!
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#9
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11/10/08 at 9:25pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

You don't manually turn off the upscaling on the tv. As the manual states, it displays at 1080, regardless. So, if the Oppo is set to output 480, the tv does the upscaling. If the Oppo is set to output 1080, the tv doesn't upscale. If you set the Oppo to 720, they both do some upscaling, which is probably not a good idea.


They flutter behind you, your possible pasts.
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.
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#10
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11/11/08 at 5:20am
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Ahhhh.............ok. That makes sense. The tv auto detects if something else is doing the upscaling. That's good. Thanks for the info John.

Micah....... BTW, I haven't asked yet:
You'd rather have an Oppo upscaling player, than a real blu ray player? Upscaling can be good but not as good as the real thing. Blu ray players also upscale regular dvds. Oppo is supposed to be coming out with a blu ray player soon, that also plays sacd and dvd-audio music discs, if you like those formats. They will probably sell very well, unless they're priced too high.
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#11
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11/11/08 at 5:51am
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Price is a consideration, and I do not plan to go Blu (really, at all). So, I'd be buying a BD player merely to upscale my SD discs. (And, even working in the industry I managed to avoid getting caught in the SACD and DVD-A traps.) I just have too big a collection of SD-DVD to go Blu. I'm happy here. I'm tired of chasing technology.

I have been fiddling with the TV's DRC Mode thing, which seems to adjust the TV's scaler. With my crummy DVD player transmitting at base-level 480i (instead of "p"), the TV, using the DRC Mode, seems to really improve the image up to and beyond the "p" ideal I have been watching. I'm still fiddling with this, so I am not sure yet that I don't want the Oppo. It may have a "better quality," "closer to the source" scaler that will allow the TV to take a backseat and produce a superior image on its own.

Can you give me a link to "finding the TV's manual online"? I have the manual, all the stuff that came with the TV, but I have not been able to find anything like a manual online, and I wonder if it's the same thing.

Anyway, I appreciate everyone's input. As always.

I will keep everyone in the loop on this. More fiddling later today.

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#12
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11/11/08 at 6:01am
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

See here: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KDS50A3000.pdf

I have about 1000 dvds myself, and want a blu ray player really bad. Will only double dip on very few movies. Will rent first, then buy the ones I really want.
Wife and I will definitely buy the blu ray versions of Lord of the Rings trilogy, when they come out! We want those more than any other............
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#13
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11/11/08 at 6:37am
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

...That seems to be the same manual I got. The DRC Mode stuff is on page 33-34-35. Same stuff. I was hoping for some more technical explanations. But I think I just have to fiddle about and see what works.

I am less interested in BD than I am in watching films (netflixed or owned) on a nice, film-like big screen TV. And the Sony is super. I can't say enough about how impressed I am with this TV. And (as you can tell from this thread alone) I am sure there are adjustments to it that I should make and have not yet discovered.

Remember when you just turned on your TV and... there it was? None of this "DRC Mode," "Advanced Iris," "Sharpness/Brightness" stuff?

Remember when... Anyone who says that is not meant for "Blu-Ray."

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#14
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11/11/08 at 12:50pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Interesting in-depth technical review and info about the Sony and about DRC Mode here.

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#15
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11/11/08 at 1:29pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Did you try any of the settings he mentioned in the article? It was good reading.
I've said for a long time that the absolute best pictures I've seen on a tv were on the Sony SXRD and JVC D-ILA (both are LCoS technology). I can't believe both companies quit making them! I think that was really stupid..........

I've been in arguments with salespeople, because they called the SXRDs and D-ILAs DLP sets. I had to set them straight!
Samsung HL61A750 (LED DLP)            Onkyo TX-SR805
Oppo BDP-83 Blu ray                                  Polk Audio LSi9
Polk Audio LSiC                                  Sony SS-MB100H
JBL PSW1200 (Sub)                        ...
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#16
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11/11/08 at 2:22pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Out of the box, the Sony was beautiful. Huge, bright, cinematic. Amazing. If you can find one still on a sales floor somewhere, I'd buy it if I were you. (I had my guy at HHGregg hold the very last 60" for me for over two months after they zeroed out the product while my room was being built!)

Now, I'm just fiddling, I guess. My idea behind this thread was to determine whether or not I "needed" a new DVD player, the Oppo, possibly.

I might not even bother now, as I dig deeper into the advanced settings and the DRC Mode. Everyone seems to say that the Sony's scaler is excellent, so I might be able to set my DVD player to "basic" and be wowed by the TV itself.

More fiddling coming up this evening. I'll report back. All these settings!

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#17
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11/11/08 at 5:57pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Well... This thread has gone off the rails. But I guess if you have an old DVD player and new Sony SXRD-KDS-60A3000 this might help you. For what it's worth, and for everyone's information, this is what I have done to "improve my image."

I have set my old DVD player at its basic 480i, and then asked the Sony TV to deal with that setting via Component connections in the following way:

Contrast = 70
Brightness = 45
Sharpness = 30
Color = 59
Hue = R1
Advanced Iris = Auto 2
Color Temp = Warm 2
Black Corrector = Low
Gamma = Low
Color Space = Standard
Detail Enhancement = Low
Motion Enhancement = Standard
Motion Naturalizer = Mode 1
Cinemotion = Off
DRC Mode = High Density

I "calibrated" with AVIA, and this is how it looks best. I tested this setting with scenes from a couple SD-DVD movies -- RONIN, BLADE RUNNER, HISTORY OF VIOLENCE, a couple more -- and found this to be very good. These settings are not far off of my previous AVIA settings, nor from the TV's own "standard" screen settings.

IMPORTANT QUESTIONS if anyone is still paying attention: So... this is with the DVD player at 480i. What if I change it to 480p? Will I again see the "stutter" and jerkiness I sometimes see at "p"? Will having a DVD player that upscales to 720 result in a better picture on the TV? (Is it easier for the TV to upscale from 720 to 1080, rather than all the way from 480 to 1080?)

Truth: The more you look at this stuff, the more you fiddle, the less satisfactory things look. I think you have to set it, and walk away. (I am sitting here now, while the TV is in the theater... getting used to its settings.) So, I'll go back in a bit and see how it looks.

Sorry for the rambling nature of this thread. These things are never as easy as "hey, what should I buy?" All these settings, interactions, calibrations... all I wanna do is watch a movie!

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#18
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11/11/08 at 6:03pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

This occurred to me: So... If I get the Oppo and connect to the TV via HDMI instead of Component, does that make all this fiddling academic? Then, the DVD player shoots the high res digital signal direct to the TV and the picture quality is heads and shoulders above my upscaled 480i image via Components, correct?

Good lord, this is like my personal HT therapy thread...

MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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#19
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11/11/08 at 7:08pm
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

Here's my 02 cents.
Quote:
It has been said here that "an upscaling SD-DVD only player is only worth it IMO if your TV is known to have poor scaling performance..." So, am I making the correct decision?
I think your Sony tv is one of the better ones. Without having done a lick of research, I'm betting it's up-scaling performance is at, or at least near, the OPPO's.
Quote:
What if I change it to 480p?
Quote:
Will having a DVD player that upscales to 720 result in a better picture on the TV? (Is it easier for the TV to upscale from 720 to 1080, rather than all the way from 480 to 1080?)
As JohnRice said earlier, let one or the other do all the up-scaling.
Quote:
If I get the Oppo and connect to the TV via HDMI instead of Component, does that make all this fiddling academic?
Regardless of what dvd player you have or how it's hooked up, you still need to calibrate (fiddle) with it.
Quote:
Then, the DVD player shoots the high res digital signal direct to the TV and the picture quality is heads and shoulders above my upscaled 480i image via Components, correct?
Just to clarify, it wouldn't be a true "hi-res" signal, just an up-scaled one. Again, it would depend on which did the better job of up-scaling, the player or the tv. In any case, I doubt the difference in quality would be a head and shoulders one. Both your Sony (I think) and the OPPO (I have a 970) are very good. The best thing to do would be to try it both ways and see which one you like best.
Quote:
Good lord, this is like my personal HT therapy thread...
Maybe I shouldn't mention that OPPO's (and some others) have their own video settings you can fiddle with?

Bottom line is: Calibrate your Sony with Avia, hook up the OPPO (if you get it) via HDMI, then set it alternately to 480i and 1080P and decide which you like best.
"Everyday room": Mitsubishi 52631 RPTV, H/K 520, H/K dvd-5, H/K 8380, H/K CDR 20, OPPO BDP-83 BluRay player, Dish-HD, Infinity Beta 20's-C250-OWS1's, Dayton HSU10.
"Movie/Music room": Toshiba 65HM167 RPTV, Pioneer Elite 59txi, Elite DV59avi, Elite CD-59, Pioneer PD-51FD BR, Dish-DVR, Swan Diva...
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#20
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11/13/08 at 9:55am
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Re: Oppo connecting to Sony -- final question

That bottom line is still gonna cost me an Oppo. Darn.

I might wait till it's a woot next. Maybe a holiday sale.

Something.



MC
ultramicah@yahoo.com

"There's nothing funny about a clown in the moonlight." - Lon Chaney
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