The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

My point is this....I like to pop in the disc and walk away, letting the PJ warm up, during that time I make my popcorn and pour my ale. If it auto-starts I can't do that, I have to wait for the movie to start only to pause it. It has nothing to do with defaulting to lossless, although if it would do that it's an added bonus.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Back in the days of DVD, I liked it when the discs went straight to the film. But now with BD, and the fact that each movie takes a variable amount of time to load up (BD-J, BD-Live and all that jazz), plus the inability to default to the lossless track, I've decided I too prefer the disc go straight to menu. It lets me put the disc in, do something else for a minute or so to let everything load up, and go and start the movie when I sit back down.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Right now, I am the exact opposite. With DVD, I always check the audio tracks before starting the film, since the default track would not always be my preferred one. Right now, since I do not have lossless audio capabilities, I do not mind if the player jumps right to the film. However, once I do have that capability, I would want the disc to go to the main menu first so I can verify the audio track.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

...OR you could just use your remote to press the Play button after the menu pops up (when they eventually stop doing this autoplay thing). So, so easy.

I agree about the trailers and useless crap in front and behind the menu, though.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Is this a WB BD problem or a player problem? I only ask because I have a whack of WB HD DVDs and they "auto-start" as well (well, all the ones I've watched so far, anyway) and I can access the audio settings while the disc is paused (as in BD, the default setting is not always to the TrueHD). I've not tried with my PS3 (haven't had it that long and I haven't watched a WB title on it yet with multiple English audio tracks), but I will do so out of curiosity.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

While I understand John's point, I'm in the camp that likes the movie to start right away. My peeve with the menus is if you have not seen the movie before (or TV shows in the TV sets), you are presented with spoilers by the menu showing scenes or shots from the feature.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Trailers and warnings are a whole different issue and we're not debating those here. What we're debating here is the ability to select the HD audio track without having to interrupt the movie to do so.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

That's a valid point.

Perhaps a half-way house would be for a very simple screen to appear that allows you JUST to select the sound format, similar to those that appear asking which version of the film you want to watch (theatrical vs. directors cut etc).

Such a menu would be lightning fast to navigate and exit, wouldn't give away any of the movie, and would remove unnecessary distractions while watching the movie.

I simply can't believe that some folks WANT to be distracted from the movies they watch!

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Wouldn't it be nice if we were able to tell our players what tracks to look for and autoselect them? Maybe a priority list so if it doesn't find a PCM track, look for DTS-MA, or DDPlus, or DD5.1 kind of going down the line? :-D

Dreaming.... lol.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Back in the days when DVD was in it's infancy I had posted a similiar grievance that I had regarding DTS, Dolby Digital and Dolby Surround 2.0 tracks on a lot of the DVDs that defaulted to an inferior audio track. Personally I think the DTS tracks, atleast in most cases is the superior track on the DVDs and thus I would think the logical default track should be the DTS track which unfortunately was never the case. Anyhow, I had suggested in a post back then, that the DVD player manufacturers ought to simply provide in the initial player setup, an option to select the audio track priority. For eg. my selection would have been:
DTS --> Dolby Digital --> Dolby Surround 2.0. Basically I had suggested the very same thing as what you have brought up, but unfortunately till date no DVD player has been released with such a feature and thus based on past history I have very little hope, if any, for such a feature to appear on a Blu-Ray player. After all 'common sense' is not something that the consumer electronic companies are known for.

Just in case the player manufacturers are listening and suddenly remember the consumer in 'consumer electronics', I personally would put my money on a player that allows me to set a priority of audio tracks in the player settings. My order of preference would be Multichannel PCM --> DTS-HD Master Audio --> Dolby TrueHD --> DTS-HD High Resolution --> Dolby Digital Plus --> DTS --> Dolby Digital --> Dolby Surround 2.0

Since we know that the above is just wishful thinking and it ain't going to happen, I suggest the following to the software manufacturers. Why not simply start with a screen that asks what Audio track to play? Just like DVDs that have both Widescreen & Foolscreen versions on the same side of a disk do, wherin they first require the viewer to select which version to play, the Widescreen version or the MARred version. Or better yet, why don't all BD manufacturers simply use 'DTS-HD Master Audio' exclusively as the only audio track. Since 'DTS-HD MA' works in a core+extension configuration, it alone and singularly can satisfy everyone's needs. Viewer's who have the equipment to handle Lossless will get lossless and the rest would still get a 1.5Mbps DTS bitstream to enjoy, which by the way would still be superior to a Dolby Digital track.

Regardless, there is no excuse for a BD to autostart with an inferior audio track as default and at the least the Menu should appear first to allow for Audio Track selection and only then should the movie start. It is ridiculous to expect a viewer to interupt his/her movie to change audio tracks after the movie has started. What if the opening scene of the movie is one of those dramatic one's with an awesome soundtrack to boot? The whole first time experience is destroyed forever. Also what about the vast majority of the consumers who may not even be aware of the various audio tracks available on the disc? They would simply end up watching the movie with the inferior track and never know what they have missed.

PS: Personally I just don't understand why some people on this forum can appreciate the value of attemptimg to achieve the best in picture quality, but for some reason when it comes to audio they refuse to apply the same standards.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Sanjay, I agree with every single word!

The more I think about this the less inclined I am to buy Warner's BDs. There are some I just can't resist - the Matrix collection, the Dirty Harry set - but if it's something I already have on DVD I'll probably put a Warner BD to the bottom of my "must have" list until they sort this out. They simply don't provide the convenience or "movie experience" that I expect. I'm just gutted that they're gonna be treating New Line titles the same way! :-(

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Unfortunately Dolby is far too connected to the standards (for my taste).

The other thing is IMO WBs lossless audio tracks are not the greatest. There is some compression going on in there on some soundtracks. Where you know it should be louder it isn't (it's not any of my BDP/AVR settings!). They generally need to sort out their whole audio presentation. I know those of us who care a lot about the audio are in the minority, as opposed to those who just want lossless in "theory". People can say what they want, but I have plenty of other BD stuff from other studios and I do not find such consistency of audio lacking with them. WB's audio "standards" are just not up to the competiton for new titles. Their standing in the BD50 queue or whatever doesn't change the reality of the audio quality.

Back on topic: do other players not have an "audio" button to change soundtracks on the fly (besides the PS3, which does)? Back OT: flipping through some soundtracks last night (not necessarily WB), I noticed sometimes the "foreign language" DD tracks were significantly higher bitrates than the English ones. Not that we usually want the DD track...

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Have always hated the way WB does their BDs.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Of the 70+ BDs that I have, there are only 8 titles from Warner and only one of those eight titles was purchased in the last six months. Considering that they have released by far the maximum titles on BD, it's quite clear how I feel about their sub-par BD releases. Thier lack of support for lossless audio and a few other quibles has kept me from buying quite a few titles that I would have otherwise bought in a jiffy. In fact even out of the eight Warner titles that I did buy, four of them were only because I got them for less than $10 each. At that price it was kinda hard to resist. New Line has all along been at the forefront of releasing the very best quality DVDs and now BDs, therefore, like yourself, I am deeply disturbed by the fact that Warner will now be handling the New Line catalog.

Personally, I have always felt that Warner had some of the poorest quality DVDs, specially when it came to audio. Just as they refused to support, arguabally the best option for audio with DVD, ie. DTS, they are now doing the same with their lackluster support for lossless audio in their BD releases.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

I have the PS3, but have not been using the "audio" button for this. In the past (w/ other DVD players), I found it annoying to have to figure out exactly what's being selected w/ the button. Does the PS3 actually tell you exactly which track is being chosen w/ that button?

In any case, even if the "audio" button works perfectly, it wouldn't address other issues like choosing between seamlessly branched, alternate versions of a movie, dealing w/ other potential complications due to BD-J extras, etc.

_Man_

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

^ Yes, the PS3 does tell you the audio track type if you choose to view the info. I always put that info up at the start of a BD just to make sure, since with the PS3's LPCM output I can't view that info on the AVR like I used to be able to. However, it doesn't tell you the language (typically only matters for DD)...but you'll quickly notice that...

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Aaah. But that's really not the same though. And there may be more than enough times when you won't know for sure until you're well into the movie (when the dialog actually shows up).

_Man_

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

^ Not "the same" as what? How else does any other "audio" button do it? It would be nice if the BD player automatically displayed more detail with the audio button, but I haven't noticed it here with any of my stand-alone DVD players either.

The point is, the info is available if you need to know without going to the main menu, so a little more "on the fly" and slightly less disruptive. It's not like you have to guess what the (PS3) LPCM format or language is. Knowing what branch you may be on is a totally different matter.

I am presuming you have a PS3 BD remote at the minimum. If you are using the game controller, then you are at a bit of a convenience and interruption disadvantage.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Not the same as what I asked: "Does the PS3 actually tell you exactly which track is being chosen w/ that button?"


Yes, none of my SD DVD players tell me "exactly which track is being chosen w/ that button" either, but that's neither here nor there wrt my question. And because none of those offered enough info, I also rarely bother to use the audio buttons on them and would much rather just go to the menu.


Well, I guess it'll work ok when there's only one lossless track available, if there's a lossless track at all. Since this is mainly an issue w/ Warner (and their auto-start thing) and they are inconsistent w/ their offerings so far, there may still be enough times when one doesn't feel too sure. And of course, there's still the matter of other cases where branching, etc. come into play.

Anyway, I do appreciate your suggestion in helping to make the matter slightly less of an annoyance. Hopefully, Warner, et al. will simply find and implement a better solution to the issue in the future...

_Man_

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

^ Oh , don't mind me Man... I get into usage habits (far too easily...) and often forget the details. Plus, I have "poor viewing habits" and am an inveterate remote button-pusher (mainly to go back and re-watch/hear an interesting tidbit). It takes a lot to "inconvenience" me, mostly I just get annoyed with things that seem poorly thought out, when a "better" way seems so obvious and just as easy at the production level (i.e. Dolby TrueHD lossless as default should work for everybody), and less fuss at the user level.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

Absolutely agree!

Whenever I load a disc I want a menu. Reason being is that I may not always want to watch the feature. I may want to check out the special features or another aspect of the disc. Without a menu, I have to wait till the main feature starts then hit menu button. That's not acceptable.

The menu-less option would be more tolerable if the lossless were the default. I know that Sony and Paramount default to lossless and piggyback a lossy track. Are there any other studios who use TRUEHD that default to the lossy?

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

I would agree with loading a menu first, especially if the disc loading times are variable. This allows time for people to settle into their seats, get the viewing/sound prefs taken care of etc. and start the movie on demand. I also agree that menus are preferable as I don't always want to watch the whole movie, but check out features or go to a specific scene. Sure, I could always just navigate to the menu after the film starts, but there has been a standard established with DVD (menu loading) that doesn't need to be changed.

Re: The most annoying thing about Blu-Ray (sorry, it's another Warner Bros. thing!)

I wonder, what is the best way of bringing all this to Warner's attention?

We'd like either:

a) A "top menu" to open each disc (similar to every other studio) which enables us to set the audio settings without interrupting the movie, and also to access specific chapters or extra features without having to start the movie.

Or, at the very least:

b) Every disc to default to the best quality sound format - ideally PCM, then DTS 5.1 MA, then Dolby TrueHD, then DD 5.1