THX and the value of quality control

Folks:

Another question from my end... I've always been a big proponent of what THX has tried to be in the industry: a forward-thinking technological and artistic resource for the betterment of the audio/visual experience. Obviously, they may not have always succeeded in being that (no one has a 100% track record... except maybe Pixar!), but the goal is pure and worthy, in my opinion.

But in the light of studios tightening belts and some fans questioning the value of the THX brand due to varying quality issues in what are undestood to be THX certified titles. We are in a world where THX has in someways been the victim of its own success by raising the bar and awareness of the value of quality control in the processes that get the film to yout home theatre, so that there are now a lot of other companies that have sprung up to do QC that don't have the brand cachet (or attendant cost) of THX. And studios are using them.

So in light of this, how relevant do you think THX is in the mix these days? What SHOULD the brand be doing? Does having a THX cert on a disc or piece of equipment mean anything to you in the past or now? What should it mean, and what reasonable expectations do you have for it? And are you aware that studio commerce issues intrude quite heavily into the QC process, and that not every problem on a THX certified disc is THX's fault? More importantly, do you even care about it if you are aware, or do you believe that cost should be no object when it comes to quality control (especially if the added costs raise the retail price)?

I come to this forum for feedback not as a THX partisan per se, but as someone who keeps seeing the studios trying to keep costs down on their titles and seeing THX trying to mark their brand and make it mean something. As a disc producer, if I think they can benefit a project I'm working on, I still have to sell the studio on using them rather than a non-THX QC company. The studios look at it as "no one cares about THX certification any more" so why pay for it? THX shouldn't and can't do it for free if they expect to stay in business, and no studio will raise the price of the disc to accommodate such certification because they know the general consumer won't pay extra for something they should be getting in the first place, which is good picture and sound quality.

What do you all think? How relevant or irrelevant is THX to you, and to the general public, and to the industry and market? I'm looking for actual constructive feedback here, not just complaints or cheerleading.

Flame-retardant suit on...

Thanks,

V

Re: THX and the value of quality control

I don't think THX ever "meant" something in home entertainment. Years ago it was a sign of quality in Theaters but that has long since past as well.

It's not just that the THX branding is no longer a guarantee, it's also the fact that not having the branding in no way calls to question the quality of the experience.

It doesn't matter if it's there, it doesn't matter if it's not. I can't think of a better definition of "useless."

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Perhaps in the first days of the DVD, THX titles were some kind of a safety guarantee to have at least a decent transfer, but nowadays, I really think that the brand lost its importance. You have mediocre looking THX DVD's and excellent looking non-THX DVD's.

The picture transfer of the T2 Ultimate Edition for example, despite having a THX logo, looks pretty standard in comparison to other DVD's of the time (lots of edge enhancement), and a lot less refined than, for example, the picture transfer of the T2 Extreme Edition, which also has the THX logo. It's an example how THX doesn't guarantee you the best picture and sound.

In the end, it seems to depend on the source material being used at the time, on which the THX brand doesn't (and can not) have any effect. My Anchor Bay Evil Dead DVD also has a THX logo, but the film, due to being shot on 16mm stock, looks and sounds a lot worse than T2, a movie shot on Super35.

And what about newer movies having digital intermediates, even shot using digital cameras? I am always laughing when seeing the THX logo on a Pixar movie, thinking to myself: yeah, big deal, you just have to downconvert and compress the digital source material. How can one screw that up?

THX is kind of a prestige brand, but in the end, I think it doesn't really matter.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

encoding can always be screwed up. it doesn't matter if you use a digital or analog source. i find it funny that people always think that digital source means a perfect dvd/blu-ray.

as for thx ... it lost it's in home entertainment meaning a long time ago. it might still mean something in theaters.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Well I think THX is a double edge sword. On one side a properly calibrated, full THX system (I mean speakers, AV equipment, and calibration) can be an amazing thing to hear. The cost will be very high and not really a diy solution. But watching ANY quality disc on this system will be a fine experience.

On the other hand THX has slapped there name on everything. I think this has cheapened the brand. I understand that you are getting a guarantee on a standard for performance. I have been doing the HT thing since about 1985 and back in those days the quality of products varied so much that it was nice to know you were getting a product guaranteed to perform. Since then however, the quality and popularity of HT has exploded. There are many consumer products and DVD's that perform as good as or better than THX branded products.

The exchange of information through the internet make more of an impact on my decision than THX branding. If there is a bad disc on the market, then you will hear about on the forums first. If you want to brand something, how bout. "Home Theater Forum Approved" or HTFA. Add your THX sound here.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

THX meant a lot to laserphiles like me, when introduced in the Aliens box set. In the infancy of high-end home theater, there were none better at making the product as consistant at the back end as it was at the front end of the production process.

THX certification is today nowhere near as relevant as it was, now that the level of digital rendering is as high as it is. The same could be said for dbx home audio cassette and vinyl lps in the late 70's and early 80's. The technology has progressed to pass them, not be led by them.

If I were to see THX certification on a title so whitewashed by DVNR that it looks like Futurama Parallel Universe 25 ("we didn't see anything...ever!") I would have to tell them to call it a day.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Personally, I perceive the Blu-Ray brand/medium as sort of the successor to the THX home video brand. What THX used to guarantee (optimal A/V) is now guaranteed by Blu-Ray - or at least, the latter is positioned as such. It's also its successor in that, like THX, it doesn't always succeed in complying with reference level standards.

With Blu-Ray marketed as the highest standard in A/V available, there simply is no way for THX to top that. While it could aim for guaranteeing a five star presentation for each BD title branded - and thus show some sort of value - the fact of the matter is that subpar transfers are already considered to be non-compliant with BD's quality level promises. In addition, having sort of a 'BD+' type of standard (THX) could raise questions among consumers regarding the actual benefits of paying premium pricing for 'regular' Blu-Ray discs. Placing the THX brand on top of the BD brand could actually have a negative impact on consumer perception of the BD medium - something I presume studios would like to avoid.

So is there any future for the THX brand in home video? In my opinion, no, there is not. BD pricing does not allow for charging premiums, while BD quality does not leave any significant room for improvement. And, with BD available as a potential quality upgrade, consumers will also not want to pay a premium anymore for a THX referenced DVD. After all, if they want the best A/V presentation possible, they're better off buying the Blu-Ray (if available, of course).

"No one cares about THX certification any more" is probably as close to the truth as you can get. While THX branding might still be valuable for high-end A/V hardware (though slightly eroded by 'THX Select'), I don't see it surviving the home video shift to hi-def.
Edited by Paul Landsmeer - 10/21/09 at 5:12am

Re: THX and the value of quality control

All good feedback, folks... harsh but constructive. Two things come to mind:

1) as Enrico said, folks can ALWAYS screw up a disc in terms of A/V quality, regardless of whether it's BD or not. Studios will ALWAYS need to have better and better QC done on the discs, just to maintain what quality they have and what the promise of high-def is. So what THX started back in the day with laserdisc --extra outside eyes to be part of the process and a series of best practices and standards-- is a good thing, and has grown into a bigger business and a general mindset that we all have. They raised the bar on that one, starting with theatre sound by getting people to ear and demand better then they were getting. The question is, do they as a brand have any relevance to that now? Or now, having led the way in QC, should they let others (who can probably do it cheaper as non-brands) take up the workhorse mantle in this area, and move on to the next frontier?

2) So if nobody cares about THX any more in home video now, what WOULD make people care? Or do you think the brand is too diluted now to make a comeback? I've always felt that THX was a great brand and the concept made good sense, but that they shouldn't have gotten bogged down in the trenches of the actual work more than they had to. They should be the A/V thinktank for the industry, and come up with new ideas and procedures and stuff to keep their brand out there as the authoritative word on maintaining quality and moving forward with next-gen stuff. For instance, it would have been great if they had been able to take point on the digital cinema side of things, help set some standards (or at least best practices) and be the company that all the studios went to when they wanted to get on board the digital cinema train. Their getting into actual disc QC was fine at first for the brand, but then it became a losing proposition because they started having to compete with QC companies who learned what to do from them and could do it cheaper and as well. It's like having your top food scientist come up with a new way to make a great burger; they have to do it at first to show others why it's good and how to do it. But you don't then have them continue to make the burgers every day when you can train others to do it. Stupid analogy perhaps, but what the heck.

Here's another stupid analogy: is THX like Pong? The trendsetter and gamechanger that is venerated and remembered as having set the stage back in the day, but not something you expect to measure up to today's stuff like Halo 3?

V

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Or, by the same token, ILM? I would not discount their body of work - their name is synonymous with practical and digital effects. There are just so many more choices today, many of which probably have people who cut their teeth at ILM.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

True. However, I do not believe that better QC can be marketed the way it used to be done for VHS and especially LD. Obviously, even with BD, there are enough titles released with QC issues that could benefit from THX's involvement. I would support it if they do get involved, but as a consumer, am not prepared to pay an additional premium for it on top of the current pricing for BD.


They still have relevance with regard to branding high-end A/V hardware for consumer home entertainment setups. In addition to that, I see two opportunities for THX to expand (if they haven't already - I am not fully aware of their current portfolio):

1. Offer easy-to-use tools for home entertainment calibration a la Audyssey, sort of QC for the home. With my Denon 3808 receiver came a very useful Audyssey microphone for speaker level configuration that I can easily imagine carrying a THX brand in the future.

2. Create enhanced home cinema audio mixes a la Disney does for most of their platinum titles. We could debate whether such an enhanced mix is actually better than the original one, but it is something that can be sold to consumers as an added value, seeing that Disney succeeds in doing so. Sort of a 'THX Enhanced Mix', where THX re-equalization is done at the mastering stage instead of in the A/V hardware, while the overall surround experience is made more enjoyable where possible.


I think the brand is still strong with most of their target audience - home entertainment enthusiasts. I assume it was never very well-recognized among mass consumers to begin with, so the current situation may not be all that different. There's still some life left in the THX brand.


I do think QC has been upped a couple of notches, partially influenced by THX. That makes it harder for THX to shine. THX used to be very good at getting the maximum performance out of standar def media, mainly profiting from the inherent limitations to those media. Now that those limitations have been removed by hi-def media, there hardly is any room left above the bar already set. It's not so much that they have been surpassed by QC companies, it's more like their original proposition not really applying to the hi-def age. Sort of an "operation successful, patient deceased" type of conclusion.

For the record: I always was and still am a THX supporter and would love to see them contribute to hi-def media in some capacity or another. Glad to have this chance to give some input!

Re: THX and the value of quality control

hi guys

I have drunken the THX cool aid and have become their only THX Video Standards Instructor in the USA (for the past 11 months) I have seen what goes on behind the scenes within the company and have been very impressed (over the years, prior to my association with them). I have seen speaker companies have to redo their already on the market designs to meet standards, etc.

On the hardware side, I have been asked questions like "how much does it cost to get a product licenced by THX?" and heard comments like "we would have gotten product X certified but it cost too much and our product exceeds their standards anyways". There has never been any hardware product certified by THX without revision (with the exception of a few cabling products), and all products have extensive testing done to them prior to being given THX certification.

THX means alot to the average consumer, and their work on the software side has been part of this perception by the general public. If I remember correctly 6 of the 10 top DVDs of 2007 were THX certified. THX has a long rooted history in relation to quality standards in both theatrical and home theater markets.

As Van has pointed out, if a THX certified DVD does not look great, it may have nothing to do with THX, but rather the elements used etc etc. And you can never compare a 16mm print vs 35 mm print (of a different film) etc when looking at THX vs non THX certified software products. If you see a THX certified DVD you will know that the best quality source material available was used for the transfer, etc etc.

FWIW,

Gregg

Re: THX and the value of quality control

I was looking at THX vs. THX certified software products.


I suppose that's why the Terminator 2: Extreme Edition looks worlds better than the Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition, both THX DVD's...

Sharpness on the Extreme Edition is much better, while the Ultimate Edition was additionally plagued with edge enhancement. How did the Ultimate Edition earn its "THX" certificate when it clearly wasn't "The best picture (tm)" ?

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Oliver,

It is clear by your comments that you dont have any grasp on how difficult it is to create a DVD (as evidenced by your comments relating to Pixar).

Gregg

Re: THX and the value of quality control

With that quote, distracting from the completely valid (and verifyable) points I was making in my previous posts, you reveal more about yourself than me.

A movie completely generated in the digital domain, can hardly be compared to a movie which has first to be transferred from an analogue source. There are much less distracting factors involved, like the quality of the source material, transfer methods, colour correction,possibilities to introduce all kinds of errors. Tell me, what aspects of the "transfer" (which is a downconversion of the original digital files) needs to be supervised, other than the compression, if you have a perfect digital source master?

Of course, you can still screw up the compression. You can always screw up anything. I assume that no amateurs are working either at Pixar or at Disney.

Did you watch both the T2: Ultimate Edition and T2: Extreme Edition?

I don't want to bash here, I just offer my honest opinion.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

T2 Ultimate and T2 Extreme were two different transfers done about 3 to 7 years apart, so I would be worried if the more recent one DIDN'T look better! That said, people seemed to praise the quality of the Ultimate T2 transfer at the time of release... my experience is that when you go back and compare an old transfer to the new one, you almost invariably go "wow, the new one is so much better! What were we thinking back when we did that first transfer?".

As for pure digital sources versus analog transfers, it's a matter of opinion. Some people feel the digital look is TOO pristine and unreal-looking... almost like a videogame. Others feel film looks too old school and prefer the digital look (sometimes because they've grown up playing videogames, so that's their level of visual reality). And in fact there are dozens of things to look for in a downconversion from digital files, and while there may not be certain issues like dirt and chemical variances as with film, there are other issues to contend with, from contrast and gamma correction to scaling algorithms. In fact, I think I learn about at least a half-dozen new ways to screw it up on every project (but not always anyone's fault).

Oliver, you sound like a big fan of digital as the "perfect" mastering medium... and a lot of people share your views, especially after seeing some really bad film transfer work or presentation; but that does not mean that people who appreciate the film medium and artform are behind the times or old-fashioned. As a VFX practitioner, I know firsthand how digital can be a boon the the visual look of a movie... and at the time, it is often a greater challenge to make things look good and real on a purely digital project. You've all heard how makeup artists have had to change their techniques because actors can look totally different on "harsher-looking" HD video than on film; over the years, we have learned to use the filter of film grain to make things look "real" to people, and for some, that's an artform in itself.

V

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Hello Van!


I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I was absolutely amazed when I bought the T2:Ultimate Edition back in 2000, especially due to the huge galore of extras.

At that time, there were still lots of DVD's out which had totally unacceptable transfers, the reason I was holding back buying lots of my favourite movies, knowing that some day, they will be re-released with new transfers once the technology will become cheaper. So I was glad that the transfer of the Ultimate Edition was good. Not bad, not excellent, but good. And the sound of course still kicks ass.

But on the other hand, the T2 Extreme Edition is a huge leap forward in picture quality, and I was just using this example to express why I personally feel that the THX brand can perhaps ensure a certain kind of minimum level of quality to be expected, but not necessarily the best possible.


I didn't mean to say that anyone could do it. But for me, when watching a movie sourced purely from a digital source, I frankly see absolutely no difference between a THX and non-THX DVD. The fact that CGI films tend to have no grain or other artifacts is even a benefit for the compression algorithms.


I just wanted to make the point that, if you have a perfect digital source, like the Pixar CGI movies, there are less factors involved in the production pipeline, which might introduce errors than having to transfer the movie from a different, non-digital medium. I didn't want to make any statement what I think is the "better" look. I personally love the look of film grain, that's why films shot digitally tend to look too clean and sterile.


I didn't want to imply that. For me personally, Blu Ray is not interesting because how new movies are going to look, but how great classic movies can finally be brought back to life. I cherish these times with home theater finally stopping to look like video and starting to look like the real deal. It's a very delicate matter, with so many professional tools readily available to the engineer to substantially change the original look of a film...

Now I would say, addressing those issues could be a market for THX, as a quality brand to ensure a faithful reproduction of the original source materials. No grain removal or other digital "tampering" (except scratch or dirt removal). Best possible sources and transfer facilities. Faithful reproduction of colours.

But then again, I just have to look at the colours of the 2004 transfer of Star Wars EPIV : Special Edition, which I assume, will be reused on high definition home formats... I mean, how could this happen? Granted, the sharpness and definition looks truly gorgeous, but the colours are not only inconsistent, but totally altered from what this movie looked in cinemas and ALL previous home video releases. Reddish faces, blueish rebel ship interiors and storm trooper uniforms, R2's blue "facepaint" in the desert for example scene is now an eye-burning primary colour, faint green light sabers... Constantly changing from scene to scene.

The colours on the 2006 laserdisc transfer ironically looks very close to how I and many other fans remember those movies. Colours are natural and consistent throughout the movie. It's also close to how the 1997 Special Edition looks.


I can imagine that this new, still developing technology, bears both possibilities, but also new challenges to find the best "look", not only for the public to enjoy, but also for the artists.

Again, please don't take it the wrong way what I'm posting here. The way you interact with people here is truly admirable, having the courage to address delicate matters and face the unfiltered opinion of the masses.

Oliver

Re: THX and the value of quality control

as we talk about terminator 2, i can say that there is one scene i always wanted to see once again...

when i saw the film on it's release in theaters here germany, the future war scene was presented in a different way. i don't remember which aspect ratio it had, but you could clearly see how a t-800 who's lying on the ground gets blasted by a soldier. on ld, dvd and br you don't see it as the camera pans up.

as for the quality of t2 itself, i can say that each new media made it look better and the high-def version comes a lot closer to the original theatrical release.

as robert harris once put quite perfect: with the new technolgy that evolved in the years, i would love to redo citizen cane restauration. (note: this is not a quote)
at it the time of the citizen cane restauration it was awesome but if you look at what can done today, it probably would look so much better.
also look at the dvds from 1998 like starship troopers. at it's release they where praised for their high quality. compare that to what can be done today and you start to cry. clearly revenge of the sith or at world's end showed how much quality was still possible on our beloved dvd format.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

The picture quality of the good old Starship Troopers flipper DVD still holds up very well today.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

I would say that THX certification on software has zero effect on if someone will purchase a title or not. Perhaps those of us who read HomeTheaterForum.com reviews for things like "edge enhancement" and other PQ problems might care if a title is certified (if we thought the certification meant something) but the average consumer is buy a movie based solely on the merits of the film. Putting the THX Stinger before the movie only serves to build brand awareness (which is a fine reason to continue trying to certify software).

From a hardware point of view, most customers I have dealt with in a Best Buy / Magnolia Home Theater setting either think the THX Certification a) makes the product more expensive and b) is either useless or don't understand what it means... and the rest have no idea what it is- they think it is a sound format like DTS

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Has there ever been a company that has abused the certification? The DVD that caused me to turn impartial to the THX logo is the first Highlander DVD. It looked no better than my VHS copy. Although I was always curious that the company just slapped the logo on the DVD saying "Well, we had it on the LD and the VHS".
THX DVD's still come in handy for doing on-the-fly calibration of your friends home system.
I do hope THX continues to exist. I wouldn't be good to be knocked into obsolescence because what they worked hard to pioneer is now standard.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

That's correlative evidence; the top selling DVDs were the best movies on the market. They would have sold well regardless of the THX stamp of approval. The so-called average consumer presumes that if a title is released on a digital medium then it is of high quality--they are purchasing it because of the content less than the quality of the presentation. Technophiles such as we know that just because a film is on DVD/BD it isn't always perfect to the THX marker may be of help to us. But if you ask someone why they are buying a movie at Best Buy or Circuit City I can guarantee you it isn't because of the THX label.

I love the idea of THX: An overriding body who ensures a uniformly quality product. But because the actual number of titles submitted to their quality control is limited the actual presence they have in the market is limited. For that reason I believe that the THX marker is largely passe for software.

As a sometimes salesman, however, the THX marker is a great selling point for hardware. The consumer is given an absolute marker of quality--beyond brand-names--and have a reference point. But even that enhancement is becoming difficult to justify. My most recent receiver purchase in 2007, the Yamaha HTR-6060, was one of the first (if memory serves) to eschew the THX labeling. It has phenomenal features and sound quality, but the lack of THX certification brought the price down from its predecessor by a few hundred dollars. A reading of reviews and my own auditioning proved it to be a fantastic replacement for my Yamaha HTR-5550.

So THX certification can be a useful baseline referent between products, but because it is not universally applied it loses a significant portion of its persuasive, rhetorical appeal to the consumer.

There is a segment of the population who will always defer to THX, just as there are always people who prefer Sony or Bose without comparing other brands. Losing the THX branding is not, however, a significant detriment to shoppers in the era of the Internet where comparative reviews are increasingly simple to find and the consumer needs not rely on an unseen body to mark quality through unknown measures.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

That could be a possible misconception the average consumer (who may not frequent places like this because they don't have such a strong interest) may have about the concept of "High Definition" itself.

Looking at a television show in HD looks very 'digital', and when I think of HD, that's what comes to mind, that flawless smoothed-out digital look.

Blu-ray has changed that, because some of the films I have on the format don't look like they represent the term "High Definition" at all.

That is a compliment, not a criticism.

What I mean is, they look like actual film being projected, only on a television screen (in my case) not a film or digital projector.

That trumps the "High Definition" look any day to me.

That obviously doesn't fly with some people, who would look at such BDs and say 'what's the big deal? Where's the HD benefit?'

If it doesn't have that CG enhanced, smoothed, filtered look, it's not "High Definition" to some. That may explain the excessive use of Noise Reduction I've read about on some titles like the recent Paramount "Jack Ryan" collection of films.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

I think the real question is(and this is coming from my clients I do productions for).......Will this extra QC that I am paying for sell more DVD's? How many of you out there would more likely by a DVD your really wanted because of the THX QC process. We are also a minority of people who really look at quality. Most people (average consumer) will not notice a difference on the 42" plasma set.

As far as THX and there "approved" products. I believe that one of the first "THX certified" Flat Panel sets did not do what it was suppose to because the vendor did not want to change the production model. It still had the badge though. Greg would be a better source on this though.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

hi guys

My point on the 6 out of the 10 top sellers in 2007 was that THX has a huge marketing / exposure opportunity. It was not suggesting that the reason they were top sellers was because they were THX certified.


The above comment is not in any way true. The THX certified product needs to meet the THX standards prior to production (not in the middle of a production run). That being said, it is entirely possible that any product from any manufacturer could have issues during a production cycle (THX certified or not).

Re: THX and the value of quality control

There is a multiplex in Columbus, OH, where 8 of its 11 auditoriums are THX certified, and it shows every time. The prints and sound always look and sound great (great bass, too!), and I never hear anything from the auditoriums next door.

THX in the home theater environment used to mean something to me, at least with DVDs. But as time went on, I realized that the certification stopped at the source material level, and didn't grade encoding. Nowadays, there are so many great DVDs that aren't THX certified, so whether or not a DVD is certified means nothing to me. The same goes for receivers and speakers.

The only place I think THX can still be effective is in commercial movie theaters.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

Actually, it's the other way around: THX certification STARTS at the source material level and goes through encoding to final disc replication. The biggest problem that THX faced was that they couldn't demand that the studios strike new transfer masters from the original negative, or make large-cost fixes... they could only recommend these things and then try to QC the process from that point forward to insure that the original quality of the source material provided was maintained all the way to the final consumer disc. Obviously, this means junk in, junk out... which is why THX's reputation has suffered greatly over the years. As a business, they could only withhold certification and walk away from any client that wouldn't make the necessary changes or fixes, but doing so means they didn't get paid. So they tried to make it about preserving the initial quality of the source given to them by the studio and do the best they could with it, knowing that they could only demand that the studio go out of pocket for fixes only so far. That's why THX works best with a studio or filmmaker who honestly wants the quality and is willing to pay for it; otherwise, it's like hiring a top designer who normally does $125,000 dresses and giving him only a $1.98 budget to do the work. Since this isn't Project Runway, it usually turns out less than optimal.

From the studio standpoint, they demand quality but are not willing to pay for it beyond a certain level, and that level can be pretty low. They know, as you've all pointed out, that they cannot charge the consumer more for a THX-certified disc (I don't think anyone ever has)... for the studios, it's just a bullet point on the back to try to tip the desire to purchase in their favor. If it's too expensive to get that certification, they won't do it. And to be fair, no studio will enter into an agreement for THX certification and say "not only will we pay your licensing and QC fees, but also we'll promise to do whatever restoration and fix work you tell us to do, no matter what the cost". Ain't gonna happen. So they draw the line at maybe some dirt cleanup and say that's all they're willing to do. Sometimes they give THX a piece of film that's been in the vaults or been sent around to screenings for decades, and say "that's all we have... do your best, but we can't or won't go back to strike a new print for transfer." On the evil and lazy side, some studios only even consider THX certification because they want a scapegoat(!) for HTF folks and other enthusiasts to complain to if the disc turns out bad... because they KNOW they're using a lousy master and won't cough up the dough to make a better one. "Well, hey, THX certified it... go talk to them if you think it looks like crap!"

So THX has a dilemma on almost every title: do you walk away when the client gives you crap to work with and you know you're going to be held accountable? Or do you try your best and at least get your overhead and labor paid? If they uncompromisingly walked away from every title that was a problem, they'd not be in the business at all any more. Some might argue that they're really not in the business any more for this very reason... they DIDN'T walk away more, so it destroyed their reputation.

I feel they were also always laboring under a challenging marketing position... they reaised the general standards for quality presentation, but they really couldn't claim it was the "best". In fact, it was really about raising the MINIMUM standard to a higher level, so you could be assured that at least the reels were in the right order and the sound didn't drop out or go out of sync half the time (if you remember some of the moviegoing experiences you may have had as a kid, you'll know exactly what I mean). but you can't market it as the "best minimum standard". At the same time, real high-end HT enthusiasts (many on this forum) have scoffed at THX for their marketing themselves as doing the "best" practices, when the enthusiasts believe that their own standards are higher (and often are). But someone who can afford $30K speakers really shouldn't be bagging on the guys who are trying to bring a recognition of a higher standard to folks who only have $100 speakers... they should at least appreciate the attempt. Of course you can do better than THX standards if you are willing to really put the effort into it. You can also build your own swimming pool in your backyard if you want to, but why not hire a really good contractor who has a similar sense of quality and give them the resources to do it for you? The challenge is that in order to pay the bills, this consultant called THX may have made a number of judgment errors which hurt their rep, so now there's less trust in the brand.

But I think their original purpose was good and I still believe that we need someone to keep carrying that torch for quality in this age of YouTube and digital downloads. I think that this forum is doing its part. We can all be part of keeping alive what THX stood for, back in a time where we used to cheer the trailers.

Just my two cents,

V

Re: THX and the value of quality control

van, you are absolutly right.

i started to learn about thx back in the ld years. i think my very first thx laserdisc i bought was the t2 box which showed how awesome a film on ld can look and sound. later on i bought the 9 disc star wars box which showed how much care was put into these films and release them in high quality for home video. a lot of people i showed many of the great thx laserdisc envy me for being able to see and listen to films in that quality. but then one day stargate d.c. came on ld. thx certefied too. the video quality was a joke to be fair. sure, today i know that thx couldn't do better as the source was probably not the best, but it surely showed people that thx doesn't always mean great or at least good quality.

the other big problem i had was that thx started to put their on everything. from vhs, small loudspeaker sets,to computers, up to beer bottles ... it was that and exactly that was it what cost thx a lot of reputation. they should've only certefeid products of high quality. stop doing this thx select crap and other bullshit. go back to what thx original was intend for. if you get a film from a studio who would like to get the thx logo on their dvd/blu-ray then make them understand that it will cost something. if not, let them go. sure this will be hard but if want that people see in your product high quality once again, then you have to walk a hard way.

Re: THX and the value of quality control

I heard the PCM sound mix on the THX-certified laserdisc release of "Stargate" was messed up and initial copies were recalled. How in the world did that happen if there was any alleged 'quality control'?

THX lost its credibility when they 'certified' VHS tape releases of the Star Wars movies in pan & scan with Macrovision encoding. They certified several other pan & scan VHS titles too- VHS quality was always a joke as many tapes couldn't track perfectly, and Macrovision sometimes degraded playback even if the VCR wasn't hooked up through any other devic. Something like THX could have actually helped that format, but they didn't seem to do anything with it.

THX also should never have certified any DVDs in pan & scan format or non-anamorphic letterbox. They certified the first pan & scan-only release of "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang"- Laserdisc Newsletter reviewed it saying "Just a couple years ago THX would never have put their seal of approval on such a travesty."

Not even their theater program guarantees perfection- there's a 16-screen theater in my area which claims to have all its auditoriums THX certified, but several of them have problems with sound leaking through the walls, one I even heard noise coming from outside an exit door! All screens are common-width too, which is a compromise in design. The people running the projection booth there aren't the greatest either (I once tried to get a job there, having 9 years of theater projection experience, but they told me I'd have to start on minimum-wage floor staff and maybe get promoted in a few months- but that's getting off topic.)

Re: THX and the value of quality control

I think THX should stick to in this order along nothing more nothing less!
(Cinema professional) and (home cinema quality assurance) the rest is waste of time!

I’ve notice a few years back the rapped halt on THX certified region 2 DVD like Disney titles and this why I won’t buy the other Pirate of Caribbean also what difference does it make its not the same before it went private!

You don’t see THX/TAP on the end credits no more and that SUCKS! No its not the same anymore.

If you what to check-out properly the most powerful THX cinema in the world go to the Empire Leicester Square 56KW JBL THX sound system its out of this world!

Re: THX and the value of quality control

If I were to look for quality, these are the immediate things that come to mind:

- Use the best source closest to the original negative as possible
- If possible, have the original DP / Director approve the transfer
- No cropping / original theatrical aspect ratio
- Grain intact / no DNR applied
- No Edge Enhancing applied
- Correct blacklevels (black is black and not gray)
- Correct colours
- No contrast boosting
- Original sound included if enhanced 5/6.1 audio track has been made
"superbit"-like features:
- as lossless audio as possible
- as high video bitrate as possible