S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

Especially sense, in pure numbers, Warner has released far more quality (with lossless audio) releases than Lionsgate has.

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

I don't think anyone's made that argument. I'd consider them the better studio not because they release fewer movies, but because "they don't have the corporate logjam problem" which has negatively affected several Warner titles. Brandon appeared to be passing this "logjam problem" off as an excuse for Warner's audio issues, but having an explanation for the release of an inferior product doesn't actually make the product any less inferior. That's why I agree with those who'd give Warner a lower grade; nothing--especially not "goodies"--is more important on a DVD or Blu-ray disc than the film itself, and the audio is a major part of that.

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

Warner has 57 releases so far in 2008 by my count.

Warner 2008 releases with lossless audio (35 so far):

10,000 B.C.
August Rush
Batman Begins
Beetlejuice
Blow
Body Heat
The Brave One
The Dead Pool
Eraser
Every Which Way But Loose
The Gauntlet
How the West Was Won
I Am Legend
In the Valley of Elah
The Invasion
Justice League: The New Frontier
L.A Confidential
Led Zeppelin: The Song Remains the Same
The Lost Boys
Magnum Force
Natural Born Killers
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
One Missed Call
Otis
Outbreak
Pale Rider
The Perfect Storm
P.S. I Love You
Rest Stop: Dead Ahead
Rest Stop: Don't Look Back
Risky Business
Sex and the City: The Movie
Sudden Impact
Twister
V for Vendetta


Warner 2008 releases without lossless audio (22 so far):

The Adventures of Robin Hood (1.0 Mono)
Another Cinderella Story (DTV)
Appleseed: Ex Machina (DTV)
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
Batman: Gothan Knight (DTV)
Bonnie and Clyde (1.0 Mono)
The Bucket List
Cool Hand Luke (1.0 Mono)
Fool's Gold
Get Smart's Bruce and Lloyd Out of Control (DTV)
Justice League - Season 1 (TV)
Lost Boys: The Tribe (DTV)
Michael Clayton
Mongol
No Reservations
Pushing Daisies - Season 1 (TV)
Sharkwater (TV)
Smallville - Season 7 (TV)
Speed Racer
Sublime (DTV)
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles - Season 1 (TV)
Under Siege 2: Dark Territory

So, up through the 10/7 releases, it's 35 w/ lossless, 22 without. Of those without, 3 are classic films with the original mono tracks, 6 are Direct-to-Video releases, and 5 are TV shows that had worse than DD 5.1 lossless when they aired, leaving 8 releases without lossless that have no reason other than outdated policy. And 5 of those are releases from before June.

So the pattern here is pretty clear.

Now, Lionsgate has released the following in 2008 so far (20 titles):

3:10 to Yuma
The Bank Job
Belly
Black Mask
The Doors
The Eye
The Forbidden Kingdom
Good Luck Chuck
The Invincible Iron Man
Mad Men - Season 1
Meet the Browns
Next Avengers: Heroes of Tomorrow
Rambo: First Blood Part II
Rambo III
Rambo
Saw IV
Step Into Liquid
War
Weeds - Season 3
Witless Protection

All I'm saying is that 35 releases with lossless from Warner is more than Lionsgate's 20.

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

Again I think Warner's lossy audio choices have more to do with the fact that some of their releases are by necessity BD25, which really isn't Warner's fault.

Doug

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

It's a 100% Warner's choice and fault. Look at the Blu-ray of Doomsday, reference quality 1080p image and a HD-DTS Master Audio 5.1 track.

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

I'm not sure I'm totally convinced of the argument that the BD25/50 situation is out of Warner's hands. How many catalog films have the other studios released on BD50s this year alone? I was just reading the BD review of "Romancing the Stone" on this forum, and it's listed as a BD50 (and with very few extras, typical of Fox). Surely "Romancing the Stone" won't sell as many copies as "Speed Racer," so why would Fox go that route? The oft-listed reasons of limited BD50 replication capacity and unattractive cost-benefit ratios don't seem to hold in this case. I suspect that's true with at least a good portion of the other BD50 catalog titles (I don't know the numbers).

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

Doomsday: 113 minutes
Speed Racer: 135 minutes

Could be the difference maker if you're up against the edge of capacity.

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

What's the average space used by a 2hr film and a lossless track?

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

So what is the WB reason for not having so much access to BD50? Because they were later getting into the BD game, did other studios have much of the BD50 replication already under contract?

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

Warner releases more films on blu-ray than any other studio. I suspect that each studio at this point is limited to a particular number of BD50 releases in a particular time period. If there is a quota of BD50s allowed for each studio, they might very well have to make choices as to which films get a BD50 and which don't. Other studios that don't have quite as heavy a release schedule may not have to make those choices quite so often.

Warner was recently very vocal about the problems that still exist with blu-ray, both in marketing and production.

Universal's release of The Thing on blu-ray has been criticized because the picture quality supposedly isn't as good as the HD DVD was. It has DTS master audio and is on a BD25. Universal had to lower the bit rate to be able to include the lossless audio, and apparently it shows in the image quality, at least according to some. I haven't actually seen the disc myself.

Doug

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

I haven't authored a 2 hour blu-ray yet. So far my stuff has been limited to short subjects. However an AVC encode of a 10min short with an average bit rate of 25mbps and a peak of 39mbps and a standard DD 5.1 track at 448, takes up between 2.5 and 3 gigs. At that rate a 2 hour movie would take up around 30 to 35 gigs. And that is with out lossless audio. It also includes no menus, second audio tracks, logos, FBI warnings or even the necessary structure that is required for a BD to be able to play.

Now a VC-1 encode would be somewhat more efficient, but that gives you a ballpark figure. Of course you could reduce the bitrate, but depending on the material, the image quality may suffer.

Doug

Re: S&V Grading of BD Studios in '08 (so far).

The sad part though is that The Thing was actually re-encoded at a higher bitrate for the BD25 release. If Universal had simply taken the lazy route and ported over the HD DVD encode we could have had it all, including extras and the DTS-HD MA still would have fit.

I have zero problem with re-encoding at higher bitrates, but this just defeats the purpose.

It boggles the mind.