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HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

#61
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Eddy
All the preposterous stunts are valid points (and they are true to an extent with the previous movies, too), but I think these criticisms miss the main point. The main problem with this movie wasn't ridiculous stunts, it was a plot that violated some very basic rules of story-telling.

For one thing, Indy's motivation was unclear, ambiguous, which drives a wedge between character and audience. In all the previous Indy films, he really wanted the "McGuffin," for reasons that went straight to the heart of his character: his love and respect for archeology, as an enterprise which revealed and celebrated not only cultures of the past, but reminded us what we treasure about cultures and people around us today (hence his struggle against Nazis, and his quest to get the stones back to the starving tribe). These items *meant* something, and gave his quest a focus and gravitas. Who can forget the quiet sense of awe as he depicted the Staff of Ra on the chalkboard, explaining the importance of the Ark? This low-key explanation cemented his authenticity as a passionate scholar, which made his "ridiculous" super-humans struggles seem justified, even when those struggles changed their focus from a treasure to rescuing people he loved.

And that personal motivation translates directly into audience interest. But in Crystal Skull, Indy undermines that connection by
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
repeatedly stating that he doesn't believe in the stories, and doesn't care about the skull. His motivation for going on this adventure is that some guy and girl have gone missing--characters we don't care about, and Jones doesn't seem to care much about them either. In fact, one of the characters could have given him very powerful motivation to go find her, but they purposely keep her identity hidden for a cheap surprise reveal (which isn't a surprise because we all knew going into this that she was in the movie). But the filmmakers skip over this chance for increasing the stakes via giving Jones a powerful personal motivation, in favor of the cheap surprise reveal that's not a surprise.



It wouldn't matter how realistic the stunts were, or how great an adventure story it could have been, it wouldn't be a compelling Indiana Jones story when you treat the main character as a mere vehicle for action pieces.

But the problems go beyond the main character to other crucial areas of the plot. There were so many lost chances for suspense and tension. The central conflict of the movie--the struggle between the "good guys" and the "bad guys"--was entirely superfluous.
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Indy was *willingly* doing what the bad guys wanted him to do! if the good guys and the bad guys wanted the same thing, why were they fighting over the skull?!? The evil Russian woman apparently wanted to return it just like Jones did! All their fighting and conflict was completely pointless. Someone should have said, "Hey, you know what? If we stopped all these car chases and sword fights, we could just take the skull together, since we both want the same thing." It didn't matter if *Jones* returned the skull, or if *she* did. Nothing catastrophic happened after the villains got their way! When there is no difference between success and failure, how can it possibly matter?


Coupled with a weak villain, and the fact that Indy had nothing to do in the last 30 minutes, of the movie, there's no way you can make a compelling story out of these core narrative failures. You could Mythbust each and every stunt, prove them to be plausible, and in the end you'd still have a story that makes no sense, and a character who indifferently floats from scene to scene until he ultimately just stands around. That's not a story, folks.
Excellent points and completely sums up my feelings about the movie.
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#62
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Just got my copy of the BD in the mail; looking forward to watching. But I have to say that the packaging is pretty slim - as in, nothing to it. Very disappointing. Not a fan of BD packages in general, and the Indy BD package is no exception.


I don't have time enough to watch all these DVDs!

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#63
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Got the BD, watched it and it was more enjoyable the second time. I think it always is with Indiana Jones.
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#64
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Nathan,

Nothing majored happened at the end of the film because neither Jones or Spalko had a clue what the result was suppose to be.

What we do have, in the film, is the Red Scare. That's really the only driving point. Russians, bad guys...can't get whatever they're going after even if both sides have not one clue as to what the result is going to be.

I mean, if you really break the film down, the whole purpose was for Indy to discover the secret of the exsistence of aliens. I mean, only Indiana Jones would also uncover this along with the rest of the stuff he's uncovered through the four films. I mean, it's completely absurb but completely appriorate for Indiana Jones to make this discovery.

To me, it's a riot.
"Because he's the hero Gotham deserves.  But, not the one it needs right now.  So, we'll hunt.  Because he can take.  Because, he's not a hero.  He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector.  A DARK KNIGHT."
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#65
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
The "Nuke fridge" sequence just went too far. It just exceeded my ability to stretch the limits of reality. There was no way that I could accept that even Indy would survive the heat, concussive force, and radiation of a nuclear blast by hiding in a fridge, even one lined with lead. In my mind, it was too ridiculous.



Again I have to say that some survivors in Hiroshima did so by simply being behind a wooden fence, where those standing very near them were killed by the heat. Being inside a fridge, a device designed to keep cold in and heat out, is actually very plausible. Being lead lined (plausible that they would be testing such a device for civil defense) would provide quite good protection from the gamma and x-rays emitted from an atomic bomb.

In fact the only thing that stretches plausibility is being thrown a great distance, and Indy has survived things like that in the previous films so I just go with it.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#66
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

My personal favorite and the one I never get tired of viewing is the original "Raiders..."

Shoot zem...shoot zem both!

What an absolutely fantastic movie, so rich in characters and meticulously crafted....

ASPS....vedy dangerous, YOU go first!

and just the perfect combination of adventure, humor and romance. A genuine classic in every sense of the word. A TRUE masterpiece!
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#67
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet...just jumped into the thread.

If you buy the DVD or Blu-Ray at Target, the disc come in a very nice hardcover book with exclusive photos from the set.

Once of the photos has a picture George Lucas wearing a shirt that says: "HAN SHOT FIRST" hahahaha
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#68
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Great looking and sounding disc, I just finished this on Blu. While it was a bit more enjoyable the second time around, guess I knew what to expect, it's still the weakest in the series. Why does George go for such fake looking special effects? It's so poorly done it distracts from the enjoyment of the film. This has some of the worst and most fake looking CGI I've seen in a very long time and on Blu it's even more prominent then at the theater. I sure hope if there's a #5 Lucas isn't involved, or at least his special effects team.

Sometime's you reach what's real by making believe.

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#69
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

nathan, that was a pretty good explonation about what i felt and probably also the south park creators after watching indy 4. i don't think that mr. spielberg lost his touch for moviemaking. i think the film sucked on so many levels is that mr. spielberg was dragged into it. as he said himself "i don't wanna make another indy movie". i give the main fault to mr. lucas who lost his way a long time ago. the ony credit i give him is his little redemption for revenge of the sith. other then that he pretty much screwed it all up. his greed for money, which was one of the major reasons why indy 4 was made, made him blind.
the other big problem was the script. so many people tried and failed. at the end it was just a big mess mr koepp tried to fix. even a great director like mr. spielberg can't make a good film out of this.

personally i think to should've listen to henry jones when he looked at his son, who was blinded by the gral that he would do anything to get it no matter what, and said "let it go!".
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#70
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

return of the siths? I have to see that one!
But seriously for people who complain about the effects. Have you seen "Last Crusade" and "Temple of Doom" lately? They also have "terrible" effects!
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#71
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Lucas, Speilberg and Ford all agreed on the script so you can't blame just one of them. That being said, I know that some people want to see George Lucas as the anti-christ and they will always blame him for any and every thing.

And like Sam said, the effects in Temple Of Doom and The Last Crusade aren't exactly convicing either. I grew up on the Indy movies and I love them but even when I was young, I could see that they were using small figures of Indy, Willie and Short Round in the mine car chase.
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#72
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Hmmm...watched this one last night and I have to say that it played a lot better on my small screen than it did in the theater.

The effects did NOT look as fake on my setup, and Ford's ADR work sounded a lot more natural than it did in the theater.

The movie still has big problems, and most of them are centered on the Mac and Oxley characters, particularly the latter. Ox does all the heavy archaeological lifting in the film, makes all the original discoveries (albeit offscreen), and Indy does little more than come in and retrace his steps. This was a huge mistake in the script, and it neuters Indy as a character.

Still, I quite enjoyed the movie last night, far more than I did either time in the theater.
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#73
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Watching it on my BD last night, which is my 3rd time seeing the movie I definately agree it gets better on repeat viewings, though like I said I liked it since the first time. But now that all the waiting and hype and expectations are gone, I simply just watch the movie and have fun. I know I will get crucified for this, but it feels like an Indy movie to me now.
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#74
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Watched the blu-ray as well last night.. looks fantastic! I think this film will become just like Temple of Doom. Same reaction in 1984 but has since become a flawed but underrated, worthy addition to the Indiana Jones series.
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#75
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Watched it for the first time last night on blu-ray. Nowhere near as bad as some would have you think. Everyone is complaining about this and that but if you haven't already, you need to watch the extra on disc 1 (The return of a Legend). Interviews with Steven and George explain very candidly their decision to go with a B-movie adventure serial set in the 50's among the influences of the cold war. I don't think this one is far removed from the first three and actually complements them well.
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#76
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

I watched it last night for the first time as well. I thought it was really good. Granted you have to buy into a lot but it's a movie, not a documentary. But hey, isn't this why we watch movies to begin with.....the fun factor. I have a saying for movies like this. "Don't analyze it, just enjoy it!!"
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#77
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

I got the BD as a gift yesterday but will not be able to watch it until at least Thursday afternoon (no time). I missed it in the theaters (same reason) and the suspense is killing me.
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#78
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Picked it up tonight. Don't believe this has been mentioned but the teaser trailer(trailer 2) is the un-sanitized version with all the guns pointing at Mac and Indy. No more mysteriously moving torsos. +1
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#79
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

@Adam Sanchez:
I hope you won't get crucified, because I feel the same way after watching the BD last night (my second viewing of the movie). Without the expectations I held the first time, I had a much better time with the film, and it DID feel more like an Indy movie. I liked it better than a lot of people during its theatrical run, too, but even after hearing others say it improved upon second viewing, I was surprised by just how true that was.

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#80
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Good to hear!

Surely this movie is making people talk, good or bad. I suppose that's something. I still think it's a fun movie...exactly like the others are.

It kinda stinks the way hype can affect us enjoying something as much as it does. So few things live up to our expectations it seems. We think and think and think and think about a movie (Or whatever) coming soon and our mind builds it into something that reality can seldom match.

But it's nice that movies such as this can later be enjoyed after all that is gone. And watching it in your home on high quality BD certainly doesn't hurt.

Oh and that new THX trailer IS freakin' awesome. LOUD too.
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#81
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

I really enjoyed this one, mainly because I viewed the entire thing as a pulp overload.


Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Indy riding rocket sleds and witnessing atomic blasts in the American Southwest...fighting skeleton warriors above the Nazca lines...being subjected to a psychic interrogation in the heart of the Amazon...battling Russians amid a swarm of giant ants...uncovering an ancient race of aliens beneath a lost city...and ultimately coming face to face with a flying saucer???


Nearly every major scene could be the cover of a 1950's pulp magazine sprung to life. So while I definitely saw the technical flaws and script woes, the other stuff was just too much fun for them to really matter to me.
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#82
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by James@R
Nearly every major scene could be the cover of a 1950's pulp magazine sprung to life. So while I definitely saw the technical flaws and script woes, the other stuff was just too much fun for them to really matter to me.
+1

And on a side note: in the documentary, I love how Spielberg refers to them as "The Raiders pics". Reminds me on which side of the fence he probably stood when Lucas renamed the first one "Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark".

It's always "Raiders of the Lost Ark" because Indy himself was also a raider. And quite honestly, in his quest for treasure in all three, he's always been a raider.
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#83
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
It's always "Raiders of the Lost Ark" because Indy himself was also a raider. And quite honestly, in his quest for treasure in all three, he's always been a raider.

I get a kick out of the diner scene, when Indy bristles at being referred to as a "graverobber".

Of course, we later see that that's exactly how he behaves in the conquistador's tomb!
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#84
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Also some of your examples took place in a framework of tongue-in-cheek humour. The fridge incident doesn't. There is nothing inherently funny in Indy's desperate attempt to survive the blast. To me, the humour only occurred when I saw the fridge flying out of the blast zone at high speed. I couldn't help but laugh at the absurdity of the whole scene. The stuff with the plane, the bomb crater, etc. was intended to be funny. The nuke fridge incident in Crystal Skull wasn't meant to be funny but became so merely because it broke the camel's back when it came to absurdity.
It absolutely takes place in a framework of tongue-in-cheek humor:

Indy runs after the bad guys begging for a ride.

Having been ignored, he goes into a house and finds himself in the kitchen. Seizing on the fridge, he rushes to empty everything out and throws himself into it, only to have an orange keep the door from shutting. Exasperatedly, he knocks it aside and gets the door shut at the last minute.

*Nuclear explosion - See the model town destroyed not by the blast, but by the wave coming off of the blast *

Fridge comes flying over a hill and lands with a thud, Indy rolls out much like Wiley Coyote after a run-in with the Road Runner.

Only when he goes up on the hill does the film assume a more introspective posture.
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#85
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Got the 2-disc SD-DVD with booklet at Target and watched it again. Still loved it. In my book, there's Raiders and three sequels of roughly equal quality far below. Among those sequels, this one definitely rates above Last Crusade, which immitates Raiders but makes the crucial mistake of turning Indy into a supporting character in his own film. Last Crusade is Sean Connery's film, and it's lesser for it.
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#86
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt
Got the 2-disc SD-DVD with booklet at Target and watched it again. Still loved it. In my book, there's Raiders and three sequels of roughly equal quality far below. Among those sequels, this one definitely rates above Last Crusade, which immitates Raiders but makes the crucial mistake of turning Indy into a supporting character in his own film. Last Crusade is Sean Connery's film, and it's lesser for it.

I agree with your assessment of Crystal skull and Last crusade. Although one could argue that Connery is the one saving grace of Crusade. Otherwise it would have been just a shallow rehash of Raiders.
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#87
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Also some of your examples took place in a framework of tongue-in-cheek humour. The fridge incident doesn't. There is nothing inherently funny in Indy's desperate attempt to survive the blast. To me, the humour only occurred when I saw the fridge flying out of the blast zone at high speed. I couldn't help but laugh at the absurdity of the whole scene. The stuff with the plane, the bomb crater, etc. was intended to be funny. The nuke fridge incident in Crystal Skull wasn't meant to be funny but became so merely because it broke the camel's back when it came to absurdity.

I also have to disagree with this. I thought the whole situation was hysterical. The mannequins, Howdy Doody on the TV. The whole thing seems to me to be played as a twisted farce. They NEVER build these things to this level of detail for these tests.

Then there is the irony of getting into a fridge, a place that those of us of a particular age will remember was dangerous and we were warned never to get into a fridge. (those of you of a younger age may not know that they used to have a latch on the door, and it couldn't be opened from the inside, so a kid inside one could suffocate)

For me it was VERY tongue-in-cheek.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#88
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I also have to disagree with this. I thought the whole situation was hysterical. The mannequins, Howdy Doody on the TV. The whole thing seems to me to be played as a twisted farce. They NEVER build these things to this level of detail for these tests.

Then there is the irony of getting into a fridge, a place that those of us of a particular age will remember was dangerous and we were warned never to get into a fridge. (those of you of a younger age may not know that they used to have a latch on the door, and it couldn't be opened from the inside, so a kid inside one could suffocate)

For me it was VERY tongue-in-cheek.

Doug
+1. And I thought the humor counterbalanced nicely with the shot of Indy and the mushroom cloud. Overall a well-played scene, IMO.
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#89
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

On another note, watching the special features I was shocked by just how much was done practically in this film. I think these days we're too quick to assume anything that looks impossible must have been achieved with CG. Other than the climax with the temple's destruction, nearly everything else was achieved practically with CG sweeteners where necessary.

I also don't think Kaminski's diffusion filters do the practical effects any favors for believability. While Indy 4 is definitely the most vibrant, black-heavy picture I've ever seen from this D.P., it's still a different ballpark from Douglas Slocombe's work in the originals. His films live in shadows, and the deep, rich midtones bring an immediacy that's at odds with Kaminski's dreamier look. It also makes Harrison look remarkably different than he did in the original trilogy, because Slocombe's lighting brought out the bone structure in his face. Indy here looks much closer to Han Solo than earlier Indy because the Kaminski's lighting flattens his face and emphasizes how long it is:
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#90
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Re: HTF Blu-Ray Review: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Carlo's comment reminded me--although I had major issues with the "fridge" scene itself, I absolutely loved the following shot with Indy and the mushroom cloud. It's one of my favorite moments from the whole series, and definitely my favorite part of Crystal Skull.

Carl Fink
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