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Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

#1
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Great comparison by Disneykid from the UltimateDisney Forums (2003 on left, 2008 on right):





See more here: UltimateDisney.com / DVDizzy.com Forum :: View topic - Sleeping Beauty Platinum DVD Preview (Scans Added)
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#2
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Um, so THAT is why they are calling it a "never-before-seen wider version," which means they are showing the full negative aperture rather than what would ever have been projected. Hmmm.... Seems to negate the whole point of widescreen, which is often used to engage people with a wider frame, to present a version that pushes viewers further away from the action, exposing more photographic image area than was ever intended to be seen and was always cropped before intentionally.

What does anyone else think?
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#3
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

I think it looks awesome!
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#4
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

I think it looks great too. I do have a question though regarding framing. I understand that some director's shoot their movies with more of an image available then what they ultimately will crop the film to when they project it. Why on earth would a director of an ANIMATED film have people work on artwork that would have no actual chance of being in the picture? Would he/she just say to the animators that the picture should be a certain dimension?
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#5
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Pennington
Um, so THAT is why they are calling it a "never-before-seen wider version," which means they are showing the full negative aperture rather than what would ever have been projected. Hmmm.... Seems to negate the whole point of widescreen, which is often used to engage people with a wider frame, to present a version that pushes viewers further away from the action, exposing more photographic image area than was ever intended to be seen and was always cropped before intentionally.

What does anyone else think?
I think you're way off base. Take a look at any widescreen movie from the same period. The compositions are very similar, in that they show off the widescreen format rather than working within the confines of the format. The majority of shots in movies like The Robe were composed in long or medium shots; granted, in the case of The Robe it was to avoid the CinemaScope "mumps", but it was also to show off the sheer size of the CinemaScope screen i.e. "look at everything we can fit into the frame."

Animation of Sleeping Beauty began in 1953 and continued through to 1958. It can be argued, and successfully, that Sleeping Beauty was composed for the 2.55:1 frame, as the majority of showings would have been in that format, but for the modification of CinemaScope to 2.35:1 to accomodate optical soundtracks. There would have been showings in Technirama 70 in limited locations, but most people would see this in CinemaScope which, at the time animation was started, would have been 2.55:1. Whoever the bonehead was that decided to crop the CinemaScope 355mm reduction prints to the confines of the Technirama frame was undoubtedly cut from the same cloth as the rocket scientist who decided to transfer the optical tracks from Fantasia to magnetic over phone lines. Thankfully, the restoration of Sleeping Beauty was a lot simpler than restoring Fantasound.

Finally, the artwork that art director and background artist Eyvind Earle used as his inspiration was composed with much the same aesthetic elements: an extraordinary amount of detail with relatively small elements within the frame. To think that his intention with respect to the to the finished product was otherwise frankly strains the limits of credulity.

Did I mention that sleeping Beauty is my personal favourite of the Disney animated classics?

FWIW, 2.55:1 is not the full negative aperture of Technirama. Being an 8 perf horizontal format shot through a 1.5x squeeze anamorphic lens, the full aperture would have been 2.35:1. Reference here: http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingtr1.htm
Had Disney gone back to the original elements and printed the full aperture, we probably would have seen unfinished artwork around the edges a la Yellow Submarine open matte, and the A/R would still have been 2.35:1. A transfer like that would have been a travesty.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#6
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
FWIW, 2.55:1 is not the full negative aperture of Technirama. Being an 8 perf horizontal format shot through a 1.5x squeeze anamorphic lens, the full aperture would have been 2.35:1. Reference here: Widescreen Museum - The Technirama Wing - Page 1
Had Disney gone back to the original elements and printed the full aperture, we probably would have seen unfinished artwork around the edges a la Yellow Submarine open matte, and the A/R would still have been 2.35:1. A transfer like that would have been a travesty.
If you click on the actual film specs link at widescreen museum here: Technirama Specifications At A Glance you will see that the negative AR is actually 2.25:1 and that when printed to anamorphic 35mm it's cropped to 2.35:1, and printed to 70mm it's slightly cropped to 2.21:1 as illustrated here: http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/wide...chnirama35.gif I'm totally at a loss where Disney's 2.55:1 came from for this film.
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#7
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

2.55:1 was the CinemaScope A/R @ the time Sleeping Beauty went into production.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#8
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
2.55:1 was the CinemaScope A/R @ the time Sleeping Beauty went into production.
Yeah, but the Technirama camera they would have used to photograph the cels would have rendered an aspect ratio of 2.25:1. Are you saying they photographed it with tiny unused bands above and below and then zoomed and cropped the image when optically converting it to 35 and 70mm film prints?
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#9
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Have any of you seen the TV ad for this release? They show what looks like a 1.85:1 frame and a 2.55:1 frame below it. They say something like "For the first time on DVD and Blu-ray, the way Walt Disney intended it to be seen"

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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#10
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

See the thing about this is 2.55:1 is neither the film's neg ratio (2.25:1) or its intended ratio (2.20:1) so I really don't understand Disney's methodology behind this transfer. It just seems way too cramped on the top and bottom.
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#11
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

I am impressed by the amount of detail gained, but I still don't understand how they would get a 2.55:1 AR out of a 35mm horizontal negative with a 1.5x anamorphic squeeze, assuming that's how it was shot.

STOP THE MADNESS! STOP THE BUTCHERING AND ABANDONMENT OF TV SHOWS ON DVD!

My DVD List at DVD Aficionado, Now Featuring Blu-Ray

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#12
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dalek
See the thing about this is 2.55:1 is neither the film's neg ratio (2.25:1) or its intended ratio (2.20:1) so I really don't understand Disney's methodology behind this transfer. It just seems way too cramped on the top and bottom.

Your seeing more picture information on all four sides of the new DVD's compared to what was shown at movie theatres.

Roland Lataille
Cinerama web site:
http://cineramahistory.com

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#13
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL
Have any of you seen the TV ad for this release? They show what looks like a 1.85:1 frame and a 2.55:1 frame below it. They say something like "For the first time on DVD and Blu-ray, the way Walt Disney intended it to be seen"
Yeah, I saw that the other day. I was surprised- I didn't know that SB was originally shot with a wider aspect ratio.
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#14
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-P
Yeah, but the Technirama camera they would have used to photograph the cels would have rendered an aspect ratio of 2.25:1. Are you saying they photographed it with tiny unused bands above and below and then zoomed and cropped the image when optically converting it to 35 and 70mm film prints?
Yup. Look at those captures. If they transferred the entire aperture in the new discs, we would have seen unfinished artwork @ the top and bottom a la the open matter transfer of Yellow Submarine. Examples can be seen in this thread: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...idescreen.html

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#15
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Personally, I like the 2008 framing a lot. It feels "right." But I think I prefer the 2003 colors. So I'm keeping my 2003 edition and definitely getting this new one. Not to mention the old edition still has extras not carried over.
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#16
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

This is the title that'll make me go Blu.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#17
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

The first two seem similar in color, but the cooking scene in the 2008 screencap has a more rustic, warm look to it. And the colors are richer in the new one. Blacks look deeper.

But what we don't know is if they are the "right" colors. The only way to judge that would be from an IB Tech print which most closely matched the Technicolor timing cards, if they still exist.

STOP THE MADNESS! STOP THE BUTCHERING AND ABANDONMENT OF TV SHOWS ON DVD!

My DVD List at DVD Aficionado, Now Featuring Blu-Ray

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#18
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

I think comparing Disney's animation to that which is seen in YELLOW SUBMARINE is a mistake, in so far as their framing, inking and painting, etc. SLEEPING BEAUTY had a lavish budget and was shot in a new widescreen format, and was going to be issued in different formats and was shot to accommodate all of those. YELLOW SUBMARINE was shot on a low budget in soft-matte. Just because an open-matte version of YS shows where the inking wasn't completed doesn't mean that's the way things worked for EVERY company and project. Oh, and with how much movement there was in Disney's films, wouldn't it just make sense to ink and paint the characters completely rather than worry on the animation stand that something wasn't finished if the framing of a shot was slightly modified from what was planned?

It doesn't look like any REAL information is cropped in the previous LD/DVD releases. Again, the film was composed for 70mm and 35mm CinemaScope extraction, so the framing on any of those would be considered correct. If Disney went back to the original Technirama elements and is now revealing more picture on the sides that was framed to be cropped when magnetic sound was added, then we're seeing too much, much like seeing "more at the top and bottom" in an open-matte transfer would be wrong.

The color choices are another debate, one I'll get into later when I can make screencaps of my own comparing the 1987, 1997, 2003 and 2008 video releases.
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#19
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

When you check out the previous DVD release, make sure to compare the "Sleeping Beauty" title card. If I remember correctly the Technirama logo was actually cut off on the bottom on the old release.
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#20
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

deleted.
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#21
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Preischl
When you check out the previous DVD release, make sure to compare the "Sleeping Beauty" title card. If I remember correctly the Technirama logo was actually cut off on the bottom on the old release.
You are correct. This is something I noticed on the previous LD/Widescreen VHS release as well.

EDIT: Actually, it was the MPAA logo that was cropped off on the bottom on previous releases.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#22
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
I think you're way off base.

Really? Well, in the pamphlet included in the new SLEEPING BEAUTY DVD is this note:

"For the first time ever, see Disney's masterpiece SLEEPING BEAUTY the way Walt envisioned it with a never-before-seen expanded version of the film, which reveals more picture than ever before. This expansive version unveils images that no one has ever seen in theaters or home entertainment!"

In other words, this DVD does NOT represent the aspect ratio the film was EVER exhibited in at ANY theater. To claim that it represents "the way Walt envisioned it" is more than just a bit of a stretch, especially considering he isn't here to state that, and considering how he definitely was strict in having his wishes carried through (anyone remember the original roadshow of FANTASIA and the Fanasound equipment?).

This "expanded version" is actually a marketing tool. The before and after images on the TV spots are even lies as the before is an altered image of its companion, NOT an image from a prior video release! When the commercial states "for the last time EVER on DVD and Blu-Ray" it is referring to this "expanded version" - and mark my words when the next reissue comes around (give it 8-10 years) we'll get a release with the proper aspect ratio as "the original theatrical format, for the first time ever on Blu-Ray!"

Oh, boy.... The film has been released on video 4 times over the course of 22 years (1986-2008), three times billed as "digitally restored". To state that this new 2.55:1 version is the best just because of that aspect ratio is crazy to me as it is the same as claiming an open-matte release of a film is now revealing "more picture than ever seen before"!
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#23
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Here are some comparison pics from the 4 video releases of SLEEPING BEAUTY I took using VLC with the same brightness/contrast/color settings on each source. Though first released on VHS in the fall of 1986, the Laserdisc release followed in early 1987.

Is it just me, or does the new DVD colors match the 1987 release the most? And that release was before any "restoration"....

I got as close as VLC would let me to exact frames. The still/step function doesn't work so it is a lot of trail and error to get a close or the exact frame. Make of these captures what you will.

1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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#24
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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1987 CAV Laserdisc
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1997 CAV Laserdisc
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2003 DVD
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2008 DVD
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#25
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Pennington
Really? Well, in the pamphlet included in the new SLEEPING BEAUTY DVD is this note:

"For the first time ever, see Disney's masterpiece SLEEPING BEAUTY the way Walt envisioned it with a never-before-seen expanded version of the film, which reveals more picture than ever before. This expansive version unveils images that no one has ever seen in theaters or home entertainment!"

In other words, this DVD does NOT represent the aspect ratio the film was EVER exhibited in at ANY theater. To claim that it represents "the way Walt envisioned it" is more than just a bit of a stretch, especially considering he isn't here to state that, and considering how he definitely was strict in having his wishes carried through (anyone remember the original roadshow of FANTASIA and the Fanasound equipment?).

This "expanded version" is actually a marketing tool. The before and after images on the TV spots are even lies as the before is an altered image of its companion, NOT an image from a prior video release! When the commercial states "for the last time EVER on DVD and Blu-Ray" it is referring to this "expanded version" - and mark my words when the next reissue comes around (give it 8-10 years) we'll get a release with the proper aspect ratio as "the original theatrical format, for the first time ever on Blu-Ray!"

Oh, boy.... The film has been released on video 4 times over the course of 22 years (1986-2008), three times billed as "digitally restored". To state that this new 2.55:1 version is the best just because of that aspect ratio is crazy to me as it is the same as claiming an open-matte release of a film is now revealing "more picture than ever seen before"!
It's not just because of the aspect ratio. This is the first time that Disney has gone back to the original successive exposure camera elements, revealing more detail than ever before, and not just in the wideness of the frame.

What becomes clear from the screencaps posted (yours included) is that Disney wanted the animators to compose their shots with a 2.55:1 frame in mind. Why 2.55, when 2.25 or 2.21:1 would have been the standard Technirama frame? Because Disney knew the majority of people who saw the film would see it on standard run, non-roadshow CinemaScope engagements, which, at the time the film went into production, would be showing an AR of (wait for it....) 2.55:1. Between the time Sleeping Beauty went into production and its release, Fox standardized CinemaScope to 2.35:1, so when CinemaScope release prints were made, that was the format to which they were printed.

That is really all we can suppose @ this time, short of conducting seances to contact Walt and get his answer. Not an area of research I'm willing to enter into.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#26
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
It's not just because of the aspect ratio. This is the first time that Disney has gone back to the original successive exposure camera elements, revealing more detail than ever before, and not just in the wideness of the frame.

Oh, then what was that frame-by-frame digital film restoration from 1997 done from, an old 16mm print? Watch the featurette on the 2003 DVD of SLEEPING BEAUTY. Like with the SNOW WHITE digital film restoration, they started with a restored negative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
What becomes clear from the screencaps posted (yours included) is that Disney wanted the animators to compose their shots with a 2.55:1 frame in mind. Why 2.55, when 2.25 or 2.21:1 would have been the standard Technirama frame? Because Disney knew the majority of people who saw the film would see it on standard run, non-roadshow CinemaScope engagements, which, at the time the film went into production, would be showing an AR of (wait for it....) 2.55:1. Between the time Sleeping Beauty went into production and its release, Fox standardized CinemaScope to 2.35:1, so when CinemaScope release prints were made, that was the format to which they were printed.

That is really all we can suppose @ this time, short of conducting seances to contact Walt and get his answer. Not an area of research I'm willing to enter into.

I know early Cinemascope was 2.55:1. And remember, just because SB was in production for years doesn't mean it was shot to be framed for 2.55:1. It was shot PROTECTED for that wide of a ratio, but it was never seen that way anywhere. It is not the OAR. It is not the intended OAR.

If Walt wanted it 2.55:1 it would've been shown that way. That's it. Optically it could've been slightly letterboxed on the 'Scope prints. He didn't want it that way. This film was framed with different ratios in mind. Revealing more picture info than was EVER seen at the theaters in the past 50 years is not correct or accurate, two things I look for in a DVD release.

There is one capture that strikes me as poorly framed on ALL the releases - the one with the three fairies during Prince Philip's fight at the end. In the 2.55:1 we can finally see Merryweather, but even still not much of her. That's a shot that was poorly framed all around. The rest of the film works just fine at 2.35:1, so calling this new DVD "revelatory" for showing some extra static info on the sides is nothing to get excited about.

If one is to praise this new release it would be on its technical quality or lack thereof. I haven't made any comments about that yet. I made the comparison pics, but I'm waiting for my Blu-Ray copy to arrive to really watch the film. I must say that the color timing from a quick glance through the new DVD looks good, and oddly matches a lot of the color from the oldest video release. How odd....
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#27
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

I have noticed that Maleficent changes colors from a light cyan to a very light green depending on the scene. I always thought she was green...

Still, this is NO CINDERELLA or PETER PAN.
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#28
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Pennington
Revealing more picture info than was EVER seen at the theaters in the past 50 years is not correct or accurate.
And yet it's neither 'incorrect' nor 'inaccurate'.

---------------
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#29
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHM
And yet it's neither 'incorrect' nor 'inaccurate'.

---------------

Actually, yes, yes it is incorrect and inaccurate. Just like an unmatted soft-matte film.
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#30
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Re: Sleeping Beauty: 2003 Special Edition vs. 2008 Platinum Edition

Wow, the old DVD looks even worse in comparison.

I don't see why 2.55:1 would be incorrect. Sleeping Beauty was in production for a long time and they probably started filming with the expectation 35mm prints would be 2.55:1.

This is just like the issues with films like Ben-Hur and Mutiny on the Bounty. It's not really necessary to go wider than 2.35:1 on these films, but it's not outright "wrong" to open up the sides a bit. It's the same sort of nitpicking that leads to ten page threads debating whether or not 1.78:1 DVDs of 1.85:1 films are pan & scan or not.

Still, I think comparing the videos proves absolutely nothing except differences between them. This goes for pretty much everything. Now, it would be another thing if we were comparing an original 35mm dye-transfer print with the BluRay. All I see are two unwatchable laserdiscs, one overfiltered DVD, and the spiffy-looking new edition.

Tell The Weinstein Company to release Richard Williams' animated masterpiece The Thief and the Cobbler on DVD in Panavision widescreen and uncut! See and hear what you're missing from their Bitsy Award winner of Worst Standard Edition DVD of 2006 on YouTube!
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