Home Theater Forum  ›  Forums  ›  Hi-Definition  ›  HT Hardware - High Definition  ›  please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread

please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

#31
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 12:22pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
I think the lack of respect for certain view points was the main key. I don't like being called a fool, so I will bow out yet again.

Thanks for the discussion boys. It was fun for a while.

Mark,

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Those who believe in extraordinary things without any extraordinary proof are often described in those unflattering terms. Now in your defense, I don't feel you are claiming anything extraordinary and your "insurance" reasons are certainly sound (if not very cost efficient), so maybe that post was a little harsh.

However, aside from that one oft-used aphorism, this conversation has been the politest of any cable discussion I've ever seen. I am really interested in your responses, specifically to my last inquiry. Besides, even those who would insult are only doing it to try and save you (and others) hard earned cash. Certainly you can't fault them for that, can you?
Export to Wiki
#32
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 1:01pm
  • Joined: February 1999
  • Location: Salisbury, MD
  • Post Count: 376

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Considering the BS he posted about generic drugs, I seriously question whether anything he posted was not without trollish intent.
Export to Wiki
#33
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 1:18pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Allen
Considering the BS he posted about generic drugs, I seriously question whether anything he posted was not without trollish intent.

Nah, Marks' been around a while and as far as I have seen he's no troll.
Export to Wiki
#34
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 1:21pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Post Count: 63

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

I did'nt think Monster cables were such a debit. I thank you Mark and Jeff for your insight. I do belive that emf can cause for interference and degration in quality, and if some of the 1 and 0s are missing then your picture or, audio would drop. The reading that I have done has led be to belive that Yes some other cables will do the job and others wont.

marc

Export to Wiki
#35
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 1:28pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Post Count: 63

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

this conversation has been the politest of any cable discussion i enjoyd your view and opions

marc

Export to Wiki
#36
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 1:30pm
  • Joined: January 2003
  • Post Count: 12,009

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Jeff, the cheaper cables may meet the HDMI standard, but Monster cables exceed the standard.

Is that extra protection worth it?? Well, I spent $3,500 on my TV, over $500 on my reciever, over $1,000 on speakers, $100 on a power surge protector, and $400 on the PS3...with $5,500 worth of equipment, I don't mind paying a few hundred $$ for cables if it means that I'm overly protected.

p.s. I really do worry about interference with my cables.
Export to Wiki
#37
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 1:35pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Post Count: 63

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

i have spent around $12000 on my gear, and my though was the the same as Marks. Ther has got to be a reason for the price diff

marc

Export to Wiki
#38
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 2:03pm
  • Joined: February 2004
  • Location: St. Hubert, Quebec
  • Post Count: 2,074

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

The proof is in the pudding. The price difference is not subtle and this is why it is not "worth it" in terms of performance (if there are "peace of mind" issues at play, then fine--but it's an expensive "peace of mind" when it costs THIRTY TIMES more than a perfectly workable option). I needed 80 feet of HDMI (divided over 3 cables--I also use two 6 ft cables that came with my two HD DVD players for free). At 30$ a foot, that's 2400$ plus 15% tax. That's several hundred dollars more than my 5 VRM Boston Acoustics speakers (plus PV900 subwoofer-their top of the line at the time) cost me. It's more than twice what my Integra DTR 6.4 receiver cost me. It's more than my PS3, Marantz hi-res audio player, Cambridge Audio DVD player, my two HD DVD players and my 22 inch HD LCD monitor (along with my HDMI switch box) cost COMBINED. It is twice the cost of my front projector. In what universe does that make sense?

Now, if the 1$/ft cables I use did not work (and I would have known from the first 25 ft length), then I would have been out 25$. I would have been prepared to go to 2$, maybe even 5$ a ft (at the outside). But 30$/ft? Not even if all of my above mentioned gear cost me 5x as much as the roughly 5700$ (not accounting for inflation) I spent for it.

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and it annoys the pig.

Export to Wiki
#39
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 2:20pm
  • Joined: January 2003
  • Post Count: 12,009

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I would never spend over $500 in cables, but that's because I can't afford to.
Quote:
if there are "peace of mind" issues at play, then fine--but it's an expensive "peace of mind"
I guess that's where our differences lie. I don't see $200 for cables as being expensive when comparing to my system.


And again Paul, I am not saying that your cables are not going to work; my fear has to do with interference and I won't exactly accept anyone saying that their cheap cables work perfectly because they don't live in my excat location.
Export to Wiki
#40
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 2:41pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Yes, I would never spend over $500 in cables, but that's because I can't afford to.I guess that's where our differences lie. I don't see $200 for cables as being expensive when comparing to my system.


And again Paul, I am not saying that your cables are not going to work; my fear has to do with interference and I won't exactly accept anyone saying that their cheap cables work perfectly because they don't live in my excat location.

There are only a few ways to over-shield wire and none of them require 10 times the price, it's not rocket science. Mark, do you really think over engineered shielding is worth 10 times the cost? What is it about the shielding on Monster that differentiates it from the shielding on Monoprice or BlueJeans?
Export to Wiki
#41
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 3:23pm
  • Joined: January 2005
  • Post Count: 1,575

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcIs
i have spent around $12000 on my gear, and my though was the the same as Marks. Ther has got to be a reason for the price diff

No, there really isn't, unless you count marketing expenses.

And Mark, do you have your computer cabled with Monster as well? It would seem that if you lived in some RF "disaster" zone maybe you should look into it.

I know enough to know I don't know enough!

Export to Wiki
#42
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 6:17pm
  • Joined: January 2003
  • Post Count: 12,009

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Gatie
There are only a few ways to over-shield wire and none of them require 10 times the price, it's not rocket science. Mark, do you really think over engineered shielding is worth 10 times the cost? What is it about the shielding on Monster that differentiates it from the shielding on Monoprice or BlueJeans?
Well, no one has really ever answered my questions in the past. Everyone just states "You're stupid" and I've never really gotten to the bottom of anything.

So the only thing I've ever based my decision on was someone (who didn't work for Monster) who explained the triple shielding and braided cord to me. It was that the braiding best repels RF and the shielding best repels EMI (I forget the exact technology behind it, but I've always known to look for braided cables). No one has ever given me any scientific evidence that RF and EMI don't play a major role in HDMI cables, so I've always gone under the assumption that it matters.

And even a Comcast technician explained it to me too. He was installing new cables in my home because I was having problems with my digital reception and he removed all of my cheap wires because they weren't braided and properly shielded.
Quote:
It would seem that if you lived in some RF "disaster" zone maybe you should look into it.
I actually use my old DV Monster cable that I used to use for my cable box.

I'm not sure what's up with this area, but cell phone reception isn't the best (even though a tower is right across the street)...my parents have Sirius radio and whenever they pass through my neighborhood, it cuts in and out...there are many businesses across the street and when I bring up my wireless connections, I see a TON of them. I used to have real bad problems with wireless reception around here (Still do).

Again, I'm not sure if all this relates to my HT setup, but I didn't want to take any chances. I just wanted to be protected against anything.

In fact, I've had so many odd issues with my HT setup that if I had purchased cheap cables, I'd probably be blaming them (which wouldn't be true). But since I didn't buy them, I know that I need to look elsewhere for the problem. It was just a matter of eliminating things from the equation by purchasing cables that I knew, wouldn't give me any trouble.
Export to Wiki
#43
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 6:22pm
  • Joined: February 2004
  • Location: St. Hubert, Quebec
  • Post Count: 2,074

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Yes, I would never spend over $500 in cables, but that's because I can't afford to.I guess that's where our differences lie. I don't see $200 for cables as being expensive when comparing to my system.
As a percentage, no, it isn't. But your point about not spending over 500$ because you can't afford to does set you apart from me. I wouldn't spend that kind of money on cables (unless the sheer volume I needed came to that) even if I could afford to.
Quote:
And again Paul, I am not saying that your cables are not going to work; my fear has to do with interference and I won't exactly accept anyone saying that their cheap cables work perfectly because they don't live in my excat location.
You don't have to take my (or anyone else's) word for it. Did you try Monoprice or Blue Jeans Cable? (I chose the latter because they had better shipping deals to my Canadian address--otherwise, I see little difference between the two.) Even if I was willing to spend X amount, I would still try the least expensive option first (if only to satisfy my own curiosity at little cost). But, hey, in the end, if you're comfortable with your purchase, that's fine. But let's justify such expenditures for what they are (peace of mind) and not for something they are not (incontrovertibly better quality that is worth 30 times the price).

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and it annoys the pig.

Export to Wiki
#44
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 6:25pm
  • Joined: July 2005
  • Post Count: 1,294

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Well, I think it's undeniable that a Monster HDMI vs. a cheap HDMI will yield no different results. No one, I repeat, no one has proven Monster HDMI to be better than any other HDMI brand. However, there are numerous examples of people seeing no difference at all. But really, that's not why people choose Monster. Even after they know better. It's not "insurance" or "more expensive stuff must work better" mentality. What it is, is that Monster makes a very attractive product. People will buy things simply because they look better. No matter their purpose for use. I keep my cables hidden, like they should be, and I'm more interested in saving money for better equipment as opposed to wasting it on overpriced "brands". There is no damn good reason why an interconnect cable should cost as much as a decent sd dvd player.

" I think it's time we go to plan B". "What's plan B?" "That's the one where we don't do something stupid".

Export to Wiki
#45
Rating: 0
10/6/08 at 7:48pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
So the only thing I've ever based my decision on was someone (who didn't work for Monster) who explained the triple shielding and braided cord to me. It was that the braiding best repels RF and the shielding best repels EMI (I forget the exact technology behind it, but I've always known to look for braided cables). No one has ever given me any scientific evidence that RF and EMI don't play a major role in HDMI cables, so I've always gone under the assumption that it matters.

Mark, do you really think "triple braided" shielding costs 10 times as much? I've got news for you, you can buy braided shielding for pennies a yard:

Minute Man Electronics Tinned Copper Flat & Round Braid

100ft for less than $20 and that is for tinned copper at consumer prices. There is nothing special about Monster's shielding that makes a 16 cents a foot item worth 10 times as much. Plus I guarantee that Better Cable, Blue Jeans, etc., are using the exact same stuff. Graded copper is graded copper, shielding is shielding, and plastic is plastic. Especially with digital signals.
Export to Wiki
#46
Rating: 0
10/7/08 at 6:32am
  • Joined: June 1999
  • Location: Central Arkansas
  • Post Count: 2,540

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

I worked in computer connector and data cable manufacturing for 8 years and can attest to that. The cable you pay $100 for costs about $4 to make.
My Collection
Export to Wiki
#47
Rating: 0
10/7/08 at 6:39am
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinton McClure
I worked in computer connector and data cable manufacturing for 8 years and can attest to that. The cable you pay $100 for costs about $4 to make.

I worked in computer and A/V sales back in the early 90's and Monster cables were at 300% markup, and back then the manufacturer's fixed price was the astronomical amount of about $30. If the retailer is making 300% markup, imagine what Monster is making.
Export to Wiki
#48
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 1:00pm
  • Joined: July 2006
  • Post Count: 63

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

after all said and done i spent $1800 on monster cables, and you know i could not be happier with the performance. monster power 3600mk2. two ultra 800 hdmi, one 400 hdmi, ultra opt x2, ultra cox, ultra sub cable 25 ft, ultra componet x2, and monster power for my sub, and yes my pc is hooked up to my home theater via monster as well. No mater how you look at the company they do make a GOOD product. Look at Porch they are pricy cars but do they perform Yes. This set took me some time to build but nows it's done and I cant be happier. Well worth it in the end.

marc

Export to Wiki
#49
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 1:33pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Serious question - Would you be happier or just as happy if you got exactly the same performance and spent only $80? Because HDMI cables don't "perform". They are like a lightswitch, they either work or they don't.
Export to Wiki
#50
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 3:07pm
  • Joined: December 1969
  • Post Count: 7,219

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
And even a Comcast technician explained it to me too.

Oh, well, there's an impeccable source. I guess this debate is finally over.

Regards,

Joe
My Home Theater

My DVD Collection

My niece, "Miss Goofy Face"
Export to Wiki
#51
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 4:22pm
  • Joined: February 1999
  • Location: Salisbury, MD
  • Post Count: 376

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Hey, try those Monster cables on some Bose Equipment. I bet that will really be something!!!
Export to Wiki
#52
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 5:23pm
  • Joined: January 2003
  • Post Count: 12,009

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Gee thanks guys, you sure know how to make one feel welcome again...I thought it would be different but I forgot about that "Side with us or we'll make you feel like a moron" mentality that goes around here.

Export to Wiki
#53
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 7:48pm
  • Joined: November 2004
  • Location: The basement of the FBI building
  • Post Count: 12,738

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Mark, I think the best advice is to hit the ignore button on people that you feel stepped over the line and just enjoy yourself. However, I also think most (but not all) of the people in the thread were only trying to give you what they feel is good advice and not trying to insult you.
Export to Wiki
#54
Rating: 0
10/9/08 at 9:18pm
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Gee thanks guys, you sure know how to make one feel welcome again...I thought it would be different but I forgot about that "Side with us or we'll make you feel like a moron" mentality that goes around here.

In all honesty Mark, there is something to be said for seeing it our way. Arguing with basic science and simple economics is not something most rational people do. I tried not to be insulting and instead tried to inform, I hope my comments weren't taken as insulting. However, these arguments boil down to not much more than faith vs. science, and I've never seen one of those conflicts turn out with hugs all around.
Export to Wiki
#55
Rating: 0
10/10/08 at 5:40am
  • Joined: January 2003
  • Post Count: 12,009

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Yes, there are some nice people here, but it really does suck that a lot of people are trying to make me seem like a fool, even though I have not said that people are foolish for buying cheap cables.

This is all very similar to the bottled water thing. Where people pay good money for water they can get for FREE (talk about a markup). I don't think these people are stupid or foolish and never would I make these people feel dumb about it.
Export to Wiki
#56
Rating: 0
10/10/08 at 6:53am
  • Joined: February 1999
  • Location: Salisbury, MD
  • Post Count: 376

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I have gone overboard myself, but Mark, you did kind of ask for it posting that crap about generic drugs imho.
Export to Wiki
#57
Rating: 0
10/10/08 at 7:19am
  • Joined: August 2002
  • Location: Mass
  • Post Count: 6,031

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHastings
Yes, there are some nice people here, but it really does suck that a lot of people are trying to make me seem like a fool, even though I have not said that people are foolish for buying cheap cables.

This is all very similar to the bottled water thing. Where people pay good money for water they can get for FREE (talk about a markup). I don't think these people are stupid or foolish and never would I make these people feel dumb about it.


Mark, it's not that you are calling others fools, but you did state "Well, no one has really ever answered my questions in the past", which is untrue. I have personally explained to you why Monster cables offer no benefit, with not very detailed, but certainly accurate descriptions of both the HDMI protocol and the simplicity and low cost of the materials and engineering involved.

So, given that you consider my basic explanation as not answering your questions, exactly what would it take to convince you that Monster cables provide no benefit over lower priced cables as long as required standards are met in manufacturing quality? If you'd like, I can provide a link and explain in detail why the HDMI protocol can never give gradual, analog-type increases in audio/video quality and is not succeptible to interference without serious display issues. I already linked to the miniscule price of shielding that is in no way reflective of Monsters premium price over similarly shielded cheap cables.

Now, if these offered explanations are of no service in answering your questions, then aren't we just arguing dogma, instead of the search for truth you allude to in your posts above? Look closely at the thread. Many people attempted to explain the reasons why Monster is a ripoff, and you countered them with a wave of the hand dismissal of everything they say, coupled with the fact that the only "evidence" you believe came from a Comcast installer. Given that you evaluated the knowledge of all the posters here as beneath that of a glorified cable puller, can you really blame people for being a little sarcastic in the face of your stubborn dismissal of everything they say?
Export to Wiki
#58
Rating: 0
10/17/08 at 8:52pm
  • Joined: June 2001
  • Location: Toledo, Ohio
  • Post Count: 3,563

Re: please help me with my hdmi problem!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
I can afford them
When you're FLUSH with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$, that solves a lot of problems, video or otherwise!

Cogito, Ergo Sum
My DVD Library / The BLOOD is the Life!
Pioneer Elite PRO PDP-111FD - 2/28/2009
Export to Wiki
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread