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Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

#1
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9/17/08 at 9:17pm
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According to an article over at Gozmodo, the Blu Ray Association is now saying that prices will be staying where they are until more consumers start buying their product. Apparently, there isn't enough to demand for their product to justify dropping the prices on their hardware and software.

Blu-ray Association: Wallet-Slaying Prices Here to Stay Because You're Not Buying Enough Blu-ray

After I read the article I found it kind of humorous. That's like saying "buy our product for 1200% markup. When we sell enough, then we'll drop our prices."

The same thing was said about the CD format when it was released and the same crap was said about the DVD format. Consumers have a long memory and their not fooled. Sure, the format is selling but not by enough consumers and it's because of the price range that is stuck to the hardware and the software for the format.

Sure, I've been tempted to buy into the format but it's the cost of the blu ray players and the software (i.e., movies) that has kept me away from the format. I keep remembering that old saying, "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me." It looks like consumers have a long memory and they're not fooled.
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#2
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9/17/08 at 10:24pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Recognizing that several companies are involved in BD, I still think this is a welcome to the Sony mindset. They're notorious for maintaining premium prices (often on shoddy hardware, like the entire Sony home audio line) and stubbornly sticking with it.

I have no problem with them doing that because with BD (and the PS3, too) I think they are providing a quality product. But if this thinking limits acceptance and hamstrings the success of BD, I'm not so happy.
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#3
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9/17/08 at 10:34pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Funny, i just got The Omega Man today on Blu-ray. It cost me $13 and some change. While i agree FOX could give me a break on prices, deals can be had. I think they just dont want Blu-ray to have the same devalued, super market checkout, impulse buy, that DVD has, and is now stuck with.

Not that i have a problem buying $4 DVDs either.
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#4
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9/18/08 at 1:08am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

I don't understand the mentality.

People aren't buying hardware and software because of the
exorbitant pricing set in an economy that continues to sour
by the day.

At least other manufacturers (particularly display) are racing
to offer hardware at consumer-friendly pricing. I have seen this
first hand from our visit to Cedia.
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#5
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9/18/08 at 4:20am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein
I don't understand the mentality.

People aren't buying hardware and software because of the
exorbitant pricing set in an economy that continues to sour
by the day.

At least other manufacturers (particularly display) are racing
to offer hardware at consumer-friendly pricing. I have seen this
first hand from our visit to Cedia.
Unlike Warner, some studios refuse to take short-term losses by reducing MSRP on catalog titles in order to grow the business by attacting new consumers to the blu-ray format with lower software costs. If certain studios want to know why deeper market penetration hasn't taken place then the only thing they need to do is to look at the retail prices being offered at BB, CC and Wal-mart. Case in point, I would like to own the original "The Omen" on Blu-ray, but I'm not going to pay $27.99 for it. I have over 300 BRD in my library, but when a consumer such as myself boycotts a title like "The Omen" due to its high price then somebody at certain studios needs to pay better attention as to why their product isn't moving like they hoped for.
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#6
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9/18/08 at 6:40am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

That article is a joke. It is hard to actually take any stock in that piece as it was simply a bad attempt to be funny. It also sound as though it was written by a HD-DVD supporter. The bit about "we told you so" gives that away.

As far as price is concerned, I am perfectly ok with Blu-ray movies costing $5 more than DVD. It makes sense that I would have to pay more for better quality. That shouldn't really comes as a shock.

Fillets cost more than hamburger.

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#7
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9/18/08 at 11:30am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
As far as price is concerned, I am perfectly ok with Blu-ray movies costing $5 more than DVD. It makes sense that I would have to pay more for better quality. That shouldn't really comes as a shock.
Exactly.

This article is written by and for people who are scared of Blu-ray (they seem to think that their DVDs will automatically erase if other people buy Blu-ray so they keep going on and on about how Blu-ray is going to fail in a vain attempt to convince others) or people who are still mad about HD DVD's loss.
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#8
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9/18/08 at 11:58am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Hmmm... As far as I can tell, the BDA didn't actually say they need to sell more *before* they cut prices, but rather, they need to develop the market more so that there would be more *real* potential customers for the product before cutting prices to meet those customers' demand. IOW, if you cut prices before people are even aware they'd really want the product, then you're taking a premature hit on your bottomline.

You can't blame them for wanting to maximize the $$$-making potential in each move they make in the business plan. It's a fine line to walk the supply-and-demand curve, no?

As for the rest, that just sounds like some folks putting a negative spin on what was actually said (for whatever reasons/agenda). Certainly, I didn't see the BDA say anything remotely like the high prices being "set in stone".

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#9
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9/18/08 at 1:59pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

It's common practice in consumer electronics to "soak" the early adopters. Those of us who fall into that group are well aware of this and, though we find it annoying, we go ahead and play the game as a cost of being part of that group.

However, the HD disc is really the entertainment industry's path to the future. With the SD DVD market flattening out, they need to come up with the next contrivance that will let them resell all their titles again. HD disc is that contrivance. So far, it hasn't been a compelling selling proposition to the mass market partly because most customers don't seem to understand the benefits of HD and/or they don't see the additional interactive elements (enhanced special features) as a significant benefit over SD DVD. And --failing to understand/appreciate those advantages -- they have no intention of paying more for something that, to them, just ain't better.

So, someone has to bend here. The industry has to get the software/hardware into a more affordable range to start growing the market among those who aren't early adopters but, given the right price, might jump fully to HD (they probably own an HDTV). Presumably, this group will naturally grow when all-digital broadcasting begins next year.

Or, the industry has to make that costs/benefits argument in a much more convincing way to get customers to adopt the new technology and pay the higher prices. That's going to mean increased marketing.

Either way, the ball is in the entertainment industry's court and its going to cost them money to return the serve and win the match. But creating a new market for a new product is ALWAYS a costly proposition.
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#10
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9/18/08 at 2:07pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
As far as price is concerned, I am perfectly ok with Blu-ray movies costing $5 more than DVD. It makes sense that I would have to pay more for better quality. That shouldn't really comes as a shock.
I don't mind that. It's the $35 SRP on Dodgeball compared to $15 for the DVD with little sign that BD prices are going to slide downwards after the title has been out for a while that feels unreasonable.
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#11
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9/18/08 at 2:57pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

With the way the current slide is going on Wall Street, I wonder if the blu ray format is even going to survive.
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#12
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9/18/08 at 3:07pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott-S
As far as price is concerned, I am perfectly ok with Blu-ray movies costing $5 more than DVD. It makes sense that I would have to pay more for better quality. That shouldn't really comes as a shock.

Fillets cost more than hamburger.
When it's only $5 for most titles please let me know.
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#13
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9/18/08 at 3:15pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge
Sure, I've been tempted to buy into the format but it's the cost of the blu ray players and the software (i.e., movies) that has kept me away from the format. I keep remembering that old saying, "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me." It looks like consumers have a long memory and they're not fooled.
You bought into that article too quick, IMO.

As someone mentioned, it reads as a lame attempt at either a joke or misdirection from an HD DVD fan. Player prices have dropped quite a bit from the end of the format war ($400-$500) to now ($250-$350), and they'll be dropping down even further when November and December roll around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge
With the way the current slide is going on Wall Street, I wonder if the blu ray format is even going to survive.


The entertainment and electronics industries haven't been affected much, nor are they usually. If they didn't fail during the Reagan slides and during the S&L scandals of the 1980s (the rise of home video, BTW), they're not going to now.
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#14
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9/18/08 at 4:10pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
...they keep going on and on about how Blu-ray is going to fail in a vain attempt to convince others...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge
With the way the current slide is going on Wall Street, I wonder if the blu ray format is even going to survive.
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#15
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9/18/08 at 4:16pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
When it's only $5 for most titles please let me know.

I'd like to see it as well. All I see is new releases coming out with a low price the first day and the BR $10+ more. As an avid DVD buyer before HD, my purchases have tailed of considerably because of the high prices. Only HDDvd are of interest to me because off the low prices.
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#16
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9/18/08 at 6:11pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge
With the way the current slide is going on Wall Street, I wonder if the blu ray format is even going to survive.

Please give me strength.
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#17
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9/18/08 at 7:30pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

The linked article may be lousy, but there have been plenty of other recent "press releases" from Blu players that say similar: we will keep the prices high for the next 1-2 years. That's probably where they got their base info, it's just a poor synopsis, perhaps from somebody with a grudge...

I can imagine the BD HW/SW makers have a lot of capital costs to recoup, not to mention their pay-offs to competitors...

I haven't been seeing large price drops, maybe a buck or two on BD titles I bought some time ago, several bucks on the odd one. About 2001 in DVD-time.
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#18
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9/18/08 at 7:59pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Jesse, I didn't buy that easily into it but it's not hard to believe. They also link to an exterior article that backs up that written piece.
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#19
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9/18/08 at 9:53pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Recently I've noticed some Warner titles coming down to $15 to $18. Some of the catalog stuff. Who knows, Warner decided the format war and perhaps they will have an affect on pricing. At least catalog titles. I always believed people wouldn't mind paying more for the player as long as the movies were reasonably priced. I guess we'll see.

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#20
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9/19/08 at 7:35am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Talmadge
Jesse, I didn't buy that easily into it but it's not hard to believe. They also link to an exterior article that backs up that written piece.
What's there to believe in either that article or another?

I just said that, despite the various articles and the BDA "announcement", price drops in the real world have been happening for a while and are still going on. I can't fathom trusting an article or two versus the reality of the situation, especially when the "experts" have been wrong so many times before. After all, this isn't the first time this has happened. In late 2007 and early 2008, the BDA said $300 players weren't coming and the press repeated it ad nauseaum. But within a few months (March/April), 11 Chinese companies had signed on, the first sub-$300 player was on shelves, and several companies were getting ready to release new models. This time, the BDA says "prices will stay the same", the press falls for it again, and the very next week, a $270 player is announced, with expectations of a $200 price point for Xmas

In other words, it's always worthwhile to wait and see before taking these kinds of articles at face value. Especially when the holidays are approaching. Anyone that believes that prices won't drop in November is kidding themselves, since it happens every single time.
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#21
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9/19/08 at 7:47am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

^ Yup, this Thanksgiving/Christmas will be the big tell. Especially with the current economic situation. I admit I've got a fairly long list of the more expensive (Fox!!) BD titles I've been holding off on until November. I did suspect all these "announcements" (and not by "experts" BTW, but from studio/manufacturer sources) may have been to spur people to buy NOW, rather than to wait...I don't know. But again, I have been waiting for the holiday season in anticipation of significant price drops, so perhaps all these announcements are aimed at people like me??

Also, I do not detect any Blu buzz in the people I know. They know it's out there, but don't seem to care. That's a problem. Also would be nice to swap discs with them if they cared enough to have any...
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#22
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9/19/08 at 8:10am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

I thought it was talking about discs, not players.
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#23
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9/19/08 at 11:54am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

I understood it to be talking about discs as well. I picked up quite a few BD's and HD DVD's when there was a battle going on . I was format neutral, so it was a win-win for me.

The competition was good, and the "I told you so" from the article doesn't sound like it HAS to be from an HD DVD supporter. It could be from someone like me who was buying a TON of movies last year in HD format and has bought less this year because the high prices, lack of 2FER specials, Buy1Get1's, etc, just haven't been there for me.

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#24
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9/19/08 at 9:08pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

I know that some of the B & Ms have kept prices high on profile 1.1 players (Best Buy, anyone?), but I was in The Sony Store today and saw an S300 for $249. That's better, but I'm not buying in until Profile 2.0 players are that price.

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#25
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9/20/08 at 5:09am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Forget about that author, if you don't trust him: it's the BDA who first said it.

Quote:
The competition was good
That's my opinion too.
Dropping one of the formats was in the studios' interest - not in the consumer's.

Like you, Jeremy, I bought several Blu-rays and HD DVDs last year and seldom did I pay more than $17.95 (a few times considerably less).

If Warner titles are now "coming down to $15 to $18", they're not really coming down: they are finally arriving almost at where they were before.


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#26
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9/20/08 at 6:18am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

I have to admit I'm puzzled. Less than a year ago, $199-$299 players were awesome, and people were satisfied with $30-$35 MSRP movies, and content was all good. But now BD players and movies at the same and lower prices are mostly ignored, and if not, are criticized, while both depth and breadth of content has shot way up. The only difference is that the boxes changed color, yet somehow, magically, everything that was good is now bad.

Really, if it's so bad, why wasn't the same thing being said about pricing and content availability back then?
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#27
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9/20/08 at 7:18am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Blacklow
I have to admit I'm puzzled. Less than a year ago, $199-$299 players were awesome, and people were satisfied with $30-$35 MSRP movies, and content was all good. But now BD players and movies at the same and lower prices are mostly ignored, and if not, are criticized, while both depth and breadth of content has shot way up. The only difference is that the boxes changed color, yet somehow, magically, everything that was good is now bad.

Really, if it's so bad, why wasn't the same thing being said about pricing and content availability back then?
I think your first impression was wrong because not everyone was satisfied with those prices, otherwise, market penetration should've been greater, yet there was a lot of confusion among consumers due to the format war. IMO, the general marketplace is spoiled by low prices and that is something BR will have a hard time overcoming, unless, they reduce their pricing.
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#28
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9/20/08 at 7:30am
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Really, if it's so bad, why wasn't the same thing being said about pricing and content availability back then?
Apparently, the idiotic "format wars" and over the top zealotry made some people hold their tongue.

And indeed, having critique on one aspect of the beloved format often elicited laughably harsh comments of being unfaithful to the cause. Not mentioning accusations of belonging to the "other" camp.


But, as I said before, I hardly ever payed more than $13-$18 for a BD in those days.
They've gone up since.


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#29
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9/20/08 at 2:20pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cees Alons
But, as I said before, I hardly ever payed more than $13-$18 for a BD in those days.
They've gone up since.

I don't know. That's about how much I've been paying *since* the format war ended. I rarely ever pay more than $20 for a title (after accounting for whatever discounts and rebates). Granted, I might not have the same buying pattern as many others here, but there are still deals to be had now and then -- just (if barely) often enough for me for the most part.

Of course, I'd love to pay less too just like everyone else, but I don't think it's quite as bad as what some are saying. And some folks do need to grow up a little, IMHO -- not pointing fingers here (and no, I'm not directing this at Cees). Also, as Crawdaddy said, many folks have become spoiled by the fantastically low prices that the DVD market trend brought about (and was extended temporarily to the HDM market due to the format war). But they are just not being realistic at all to expect things to continue as they had been (or to expect/demand prices to come down super fast following the end of the format war)...

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#30
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9/20/08 at 2:30pm
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Re: Blue Ray Association: High Prices Set in Stone

RE: the cliched bit about "competition is good", yes, it's good *IF* it's a naturally/normal occuring kind of competition. But I'm not so sure the HDM format war qualified after a certain point. Healthy competition should mean a format war can last a long time, but I don't see how the HDM format war could've been healthy for the market as a whole over the long haul -- at least not as it was anyhow.

Just because there's some good principle/theory out there floating about, doesn't mean it applies perfectly well to whatever favorite situation one feels warm-and-fuzzy about.

Besides, competition is not actually gone. Only the specific kind of (IMHO, unhealthy) competition that was happening is gone. BD has not monopolized the home video market, and competition still exists between studios and CE companies trying to sell us their product -- you know, the same studios and CE companies that fought the artificial HDM format war. And if anything, the economic downturn will probably force them to work harder to sell to us one way or another. If there is real $$$ for them to make, you can be pretty sure they'll try. If there is *not*, then what can you really do about it? Force them to sell you product w/ no benefit (or even at a loss) to them indefinitely?

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