Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I also have fond memories of watching these on TV, during the early 70s, but the worst short on this DVD compilation is still eons better than the King World Productions 16mm prints that our local station used to air. Title cards were totally obliterated (much worse than the Blackhawk presentations on this set), and some shorts were edited for content...a few were withdrawn completely because of racial issues.

This set could have been better, if someone who actually cared for the material had been in charge--but it's a keeper, just the same.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

This potentially puts the set back in the "must buy" category for me (I may still Netflix it first just to do my own comparison, because everybody's "eye" is different). One question though: in your mind is the pq improvement you notice due to superior digital mastering or better film elements? I'm now really curious if possibly "Genius" purposely used some Blackhawk prints because they were actually in better shape (of course, I would still have wished they had cobbled the original title cards).

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Has anyone heard any official announcement from Genius in response to replacement discs or correcting of the sound sync issues?

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I looked at Choo Choo. I don’t know what the other reviewer was looking at. The new version is better than the CF version. I noticed a lot of dirt and flickering on the CF DVD that wasn't present on the new version. As with the other shorts, there was more detail, sharpness, contrast.

In regards to the ‘floating head’ in Lazy Days. This was present on the CF version. It is actually a problem with the original process shot. The scene in question has MaryAnne imagining Wheezer with a baby face – which is superimposed. His original face is barely visible, but the two faces are not lined up. This brings up an issue with all films that are visually improved (and will be a bigger issue as Blu-Ray digs into classic titles). Older films ‘cheated’ when it came to effects, makeup, etc. knowing that the projection abilities of the day would hide imperfections. A blurred picture, a fleeting shot would be hidden from the public and give the proper illusion. As technology progresses, and we get clearer and clearer pictures, we see the flaws. Old man makeup looks like makeup instead of wrinkles. Rocket ships flew using wires. A barely visible superimposed face becomes more visible. With these shorts looking better than before, we will see more – which may not always be better.

As for the sound sync problems. Yes, they are there, and they weren't on the CF titles. But, they are not present for the whole short. Some scenes are in sync, some are not.

This makes me feel it is an issue with the restoration. When doing film restoration, the sound and visual are generally done separately. First some facts. Even though the sound and picture are both on the same film stock, they are not in sync. The audio is several frames off due to the way projectors work. The lamp is at a different position than the sound pickup. This means that when a film is damaged, say a scratch or tear, the damage is done at different spots in the picture vs. the sound. As part of the restoration process, sometimes frames are dropped, recreated, or doubled – and the end result is that the restored scene may have a different number of frames than the original. Also due to film shrinkage, the speed of the film can change. Restoration generally restores the picture back to the original speed. Plus, the sound and the picture for different scenes may come from different sources in an attempt to get the best possible source (film “A” may have good sound, film “B” has a good picture). When it comes to re-merging the sound with the picture, the overall lengths of the two may no longer match. There are two ways of re-merging – either shot by shot, or making sure the longest sections are in sync. My guess is they did the second. (or a combination – scene by scene?) That would explain why some scenes are in sync, and others are not. It could be that A Tough Winter and A Lad An’ A Lamp had more issues, and therefore more sync problems. Film restoration can be a very pricey and time consuming venture (I've read a lot of Robert Harris comments to know this), and despite how we feel about these shorts, they are never going to be more than a niche market. A full blown restoration may have been beyond the resources of Genius. They don’t have the production line – economy of scale that WB has or the talents and seemingly unlimited time and budget that RAH gets. These still look better than we've seen before.

As for the booklet. Yes, they were sloppy. They used the wrong pictures (Dickie Moore for Scotty Beckett, Donald Haines for Mickey Daniels). They didn’t suggest that Dickie Moore is dead – the text is clear that Scotty Beckett is the one who died. The quality control for the booklet was lacking. True, the people who were switched did look similar, and I have a feeling that non-hardcore fans wouldn't notice. But yes, it was sloppy.

Another flaw (and I haven’t found many) - even though it is supposed to be in chronological order, they have Canned Fishing following Hide And Shriek. Canned Fishing came out in Feb ’38, and Hide And Shriek came out in June ’38. Another sloppy mistake, but definitely not a deal-breaker.

I may do more side-by-side comparisons, but as of now, I am very satisfied with this product. Other than the missing title cards, and the sync problems (both of which I can live with) it is far superior to the Cabin Fever versions.

David

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

David,

Excellent read. One of the best posts thus far.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Great - but how is The Pigskin Pooluka?

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

A TOUGH WINTER seems to be out of synch from beginning to end, which is unforgivable. And it is way out of synch.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

"Anniversary Trouble" is trouble indeed. It's bad. Very, very bad. There's lots of missing frames. So many, that it looks like Spanky is teleporting around the living room.

"Second Childhood" is okay.

"Reunion in Rhythm" is fine.

So far I've watched about 25 shorts; half of them are very, very good. Half are very very bad. I'm not keeping this set. It's just not good enough. It's not nearly as good as the Cabin Fever vhs tapes that I have. I'm keeping those; maybe I'll give this dvd to my nephew.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

What are you talking about? Did you not see the horrible vertical scratches running almost thru the entire RHI dvd version? I would do a screen cap comparison, however I don't have the CF version on dvd; only on vhs, so it's hard to make that work. Can anyone else do a comparison? (we're overdue for some anyway, and I haven't had time lol)

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

You guys are confusing me! ;-) I just put the whole series in my Netflix queue so I can judge for myself before the investment (I just hope I get the actual RHI/Genius discs, Netflix has screwed me more than once before by advertising the latest Criterion release and shipping me some Fox Lorber/Winstar mess).

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Yes, this IS getting mighty confusing. The only thing to do is to watch for ourselves and see what we think, one short film at a time. If the reported visual "floating problems" are in fact just part of the original source, or if it's always been present even on the Cabin Fever release... then that's fine. What else can we do there?

But at present it's the audio synch mis-match that troubles me most. I always get distracted trying to enjoy a film when that occurs.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I haven't noticed many "floaters." I think those posters need to turn down their Digital Noise Reduction. I also think the audio synch problems are misconstrued. I think those posters are talking about films that were heavily dubbed by Roach in the first place. I know some of the early talkies have the heck looped out of them.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I need David to clarify how shrinkage of a film's elements can change it's speed. The illusion of movement is created when a film projector pulls through, briefly stops and 'holds', then projects 24 individual frames of film each second. The governor in the motor of the projector determines the speed. How would projecting 24 shrunken frames per second of a film differ from 24 frames of a regular print ? If a print was too severely shrunken it would simply not run in a projector since the sprockets would not line up with the claws needed to pull it through the machine.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Well, I watched the first several minutes of A LAD AN' A LAMP, and there is no mistaking on my part there, I'm afraid; the audio is out of synch. The same short was fine on the Cabin Fever release.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I've taken another look at Choo Choo. Yes, the new set does have a pair of vertical scratches throughout most of the short. But these same two scratches are on the CF DVD, and actually are as visible, if not more visible on the Cabin Fever version. In addition, the new version doesn't show as much dirt.

As for the shrinkage question. First of all, I am not an expert on Film Restoration - I was merely repeating some of the things I've read, or heard about that were issues with picture and sound restoration. I am not sure how shrinkage affects the speed. I think it had to do with the special processes required to unshrink the film so it could be pictures could be scanned, and also so the audio could be re-recorded and cleaned up. I don't have the specific knowledge to answer why this could cause a sync problem (and it is even possible I was wrong about it being one of the problems). If someone who has done actual film restoration would like to chime in, I'd love to hear it.

Regardless of how it happened, there are a few shorts that have sound sync problems. Whether you consider this a major or a minor problem, and is a deal-breaker is up to you. The picture quality on this set surpasses the Cabin Fever sets. For me, having the better picture outweighs the slight sound problems.

David

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Ok,

I've found the first short I can't say has a better picture than Cabin Fever - Anniversary Troubles.

The new picture is sharper and more detailed than CF. The CF picture is kind of washed out, BUT...

The new picture is laden with scratches. It is also darker. It is not un-watchable, but it is so far not near the quality of the other shorts on the set. And there were breaks in the scene where Spanky first comes in the house that were not on the CF version.

So, I'm torn on this one - the clean, but VHS quality of the CF version, or the detailed and sharp, but scratchy new version.

David

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Too bad about ANNIVERSARY TROUBLE being poor on the new set, as it's a good short. But at least we've still got it in better shape on the Cabin Fever release.

I finally started the long (but enjoyable) task of watching every short, beginning with Disc 1. The first film, SMALL TALK, looked good.

Only 79 more to examine!

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I just watched my laserdisc version of A TOUGH WINTER and it is in perfect sound sync. The new Genius DVD looks maybe a little sharper, but the sound sync is way off. No mistake about it and it really hurts your enjoyment of the film. It is off from start to finish. The other shorts that were transferred using the MGM (SHIVER MY TIMBERS, READIN' AND WRITING, DOGS IS DOGS) prints look better than the Cabin Fever shorts and have been digitally cleaned and do look like Warner Bros. quality So, it's a mixed bag. If you are really a LITTLE RASCALS fanatic (and if you are reading this, you probably are) you will definitely want to get this set, but you will be heartbroken at the slopping synching on some of the most beloved episodes.

It's possible that at first glance, the BLACKHAWK prints looked better and that's what they used in some cases, but I am worried about the editing of WASHEE IRONEE. Is it possible that political correctness took precidence over historical accuracy?

FREE EATS, unfortunately, has three vertical scratches from beginning to end. The print doesn't look so great which is unfortunate because this is SPANKY'S first introduction.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Some of the Cabin Fever VHS copies were missing the same scene, according to Washee Ironee

They corrected it on CF DVD & later copies of the VHS.

I was trying to find other reviews, and came across this from Amazon, which is too bad:

"Barnum & Ringling Inc., which does NOT have the original Hal Roach Music & Effects soundtrack! This was one of the first Hal Roach silent films to be produced with a Music & effects soundtrack disc for theaters to run with the film. The Niles Essanay Silent Film Museum often runs this short with its original soundtrack. Too bad we get the Blackhawk Gaylord Carter soundtrack here! "

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I've watched the first 7 shorts on Disc 1 (1929-1930),

SMALL TALK
RAILROADIN'
LAZY DAYS
BOXING GLOVES
BOUNCING BABIES
MOAN AND GROAN, INC.
SHIVERING SHAKESPEARE

and I think they're all fine. Whatever roughness is present is due to the age and inherent to all the prints we've ever seen of these shorts before. I was very happy with them overall, no quibbles.

It seems to me that most fans are jumping ahead to selected favorite films, but I'm going to go through this in order. It's very disheartening to learn that many of the later beloved shorts are of varying quality, however.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Every film on Disc Three seems to be flawless and beautiful. Wow. They are all MGM and in sych. There's a little wabbling of images, but that is probably because of over-compression artifacts. But they are beautifully restored. Especially HOOK AND LADDER and THE POOCH. BIRTHDAY BLUES doesn't look so good, but it's probably the best they could do with the source material.

I think what this set boils down to is that I am crazy about these shorts and I appreciate some of the transfers because they are breathtaking, even though some have Blackhawk title cards. The fact that a few are out of synch is very frustrating (A TOUGH WINTER). But I think the set is worth the price because of the shorts that have been restored to such beautiful quality. It is worth the price just to see how good some of these look.

You start watching these films and can't stop, because you are swept up all over again in a world you wish you could be part of. The acting these kids did is so natural, organic. The fact that they are so sassy and naughty, but good-hearted trumps anything else ever done. And for the most part, I think kids like Stymie (my personal favorite) come across as wise, clever, funny and sweet.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I'm starting to arrive at the same conclusion (though I've only watched the first 15 shorts so far).

Of the first 15 films, only A TOUGH WINTER is really glaringly problematic - and that's because yes, the audio is out of synch. I don't believe I've ever sat through this short before,but turns out it's lousy anyway, IMHO. One of the weakest of the series for me - and besides, there are many visual sections where there isn't dialogue anyway! You can barely make out what Stepin Fetchit is saying due to the deliberately slow way he is speaking, so the mis-matched audio isn't as noticeable and could have been worse. Besides, as I watched the short I didn't even worry about the audio and got used to it quickly. Now, I'm not saying it's a good thing - but it's no deal breaker.

Every so often I could detect a slight "floating" effect with the visuals, for lack of a better term. The artifacting, the digitizing. But if you don't sit there looking for things to purposely worry about, the image is fine, really. I know this sounds like I'm trying to rationalize, but I'd be the first to say this is terrible if it was. I'm starting to think this was worth it, and a good acquisition.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I have to agree. The set may not be perfect, but for those who just want to watch the shorts, and may not have the other versions, it is worth picking up.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Sadly, I returned my set to Amazon unopened. I have two of the four laserdisc box sets, and if they are not complete as released like they were for the laser incarnations, I'll pass.

It makes nosince why they could release everything as originally filmed ten years ago, and now we have Blackhawk title cards. A definite miss, and believe me, I'm disappointed. I'll be looking for the other two laser disc boxes and hope for better things to come.

Jack

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I returned my set also. I just can't live with audio-synch issues. That's a deal breaker for me. I can live with the title cards and scratches, but not audio synch. Also, the fact that they are advertised as uncut (and there is at least one that was cut) wasn't very appealing to me either.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I read on DVDTalk that "Bear Shooters" is also cut, so now there's 2 shorts that are cut. There's dialogue missing.

I don't expect a great restoration from a low-budget company, but I do expect at least what was offered on VHS, and we don't have that here. The picture may be improved on some, or even most of the shorts, but if I have to keep track of what's cut, what's not cut to know if I should watch a VHS tape or a DVD, or worry about audio-synch problems.... it's frustrating.

I never understand how this stuff works, and am glad that I don't work in the movie business. It seems so simple. RHI/Cabin Fever found out over 10 years ago that there were cut prints of these shorts, and they corrected it with subsequent releases. At that point, put the cut prints in a box that says "Don't Use" or "cut" or whatever, and put the uncut print right next to it, labelled as such--or whatever organizational method works for the movie business. RHI/Cabin Fever used the original title prints before, and now RHI/Genius use something else. Why spend so much money or time trying to find & remaster the proper prints in the first place, if you're going to lose them, or not use them, later on? Somehow, it must be a lot harder to organize things than it should be. It shouldn't take a scholar to know whether an uncut print is being used, if the uncut print has already been found, remastered and released earlier on DVD & VHS.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

I've since heard that BEAR SHOOTERS was also cut in the same place on the old VHS Cabin Fever release. It may be just the best we've got for that one film these days. I watched the short myself and I couldn't even notice anything missing. A couple of missing words on 1 short in a set of 80 shorts is really nitpicking, IMO.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

You're right. It may be the best we have, and that's fine. I don't mean to nitpick (heck, even my Criterion version of The Lady Vanishes is missing some footage), but just make the general point that the VHS tapes used better prints, and it's frustrating when inferior prints are used afterwards, when RHI was involved in both. They already fixed Washee Ironee before, and now they've gone back. Stuff like that I don't understand.

They claimed they used the best available, and maybe that's the case. Maybe something's happened to the other prints in the meantime--who knows? Or maybe, just plain human error.

The Digital Bits gave this set a 'B'. I trust them, so to me, that's probably right.

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Wow, FISH HOOKY looks great! Some of these prints look like they have been cleaned and restored long the lines of Warner Bros. work on NORTH BY NORTHWEST. I think this may be one of my favorites. Spanky's line at the end is the best tag of any Little Rascals' short: Aw, go ahead and kiss her so I can get some sleep!

Re: Genius Press Release: The Little Rascals: The Complete Collection

Yes, the same review that claimed all the shorts were restored and uncut (obviously copied straight from the press release) and he didn't even notice the Blackhawk title cards (easily noticeable because they say "The Little Rascals" on them). Hardly what I would call a trustworthy review. The other advance review (DVDTalk) likewise failed to mention the major faults of the set. I will give credit to the DVDTalk reviewer for revising his review, something Bill Hunt has yet to do. In both cases, you have to wonder if they actually watched the set before writing their reviews.

Luckily we have the Little Rascals forum for accurate reviews of the set mentioning both its positives and negatives. They were the first to mention the Blackhawk issue.