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Heroes - Season Three

#91
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9/24/08 at 6:46am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Josh,

I appreciate the explanation. It sort of makes sense now, but
why go that route? I bet there are many who are very confused
about the two Peters and the ever changing identities.

For some reason I felt a little "bothered" by the whole Mohinder
metamorphosis thing. Didn't need to see that guy all sexed up. ronshit_2191.gif
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#92
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9/24/08 at 6:48am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Fans of The Wire will recognize Jamie Hector (Marlo) as one of the escaped villains. I hope he sticks around.
Yeah, I was happy to see him. That guy plays evil really well.

Also, the credits said that Andre Royo (Bubbles on The Wire) was in the episode too but I didn't spot him.
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#93
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9/24/08 at 6:50am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
For some reason I felt a little "bothered" by the whole Mohinder
metamorphosis thing. Didn't need to see that guy all sexed up.
Was it any worse than the Brundlefly?

He was one of those people who would be neither a follower nor a leader, but only an aspiring heart, impatient in the failing body which imprisoned it. -- T. H. White, "The Once and Future King"

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#94
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9/24/08 at 6:52am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Another movie homage: Hallowen (Claire in the closet that has louvered door, holding a knife while the boogie man waits outside.).

I'm not fully convinced that Future Peter is really Peter. His "mother" hates him too much (although, to be fair, she is not the warmest of mothers even when she isn't beiing disdainful) and her dialog has hinted that he is not who he seems to be.

Always Tim's (and Dennis's, Hannah's, and Oksana's) loving dad
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___________________I have learned that some pain cannot be healed, but must be endured. I believe our Higher Power will help us...

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#95
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9/24/08 at 7:17am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
-Hiro opening the safe was so predictable and lame they shouldn't have spent an excruciating 2 or 3 minutes getting to it.

Hiro's actions in that scene didn't feel right to me. He gave no consideration to respecting his father's wishes. Hiro would have at least agonized over it.

Quote:
how 'bout time travelling back to before Sylar got his powers and shooting ~him~?.

I agree with the underlying point your're making. I often ask myself the same types of questions. But I will offer that it's difficult to know exactly when to time travel and which events to change because of the Butterfly Effect. Would killing Sylar before he got his powers have been better? Do we truly know?

Studios, caption your internet streams.

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#96
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9/24/08 at 7:32am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
Yeah, I was happy to see him. That guy plays evil really well.

Also, the credits said that Andre Royo (Bubbles on The Wire) was in the episode too but I didn't spot him.

Thanks Travis - you confirmed that I did see Royo's name on the credit list! I thought perhaps I had misread someone's name, but I looked for him anyway, and didn't spot him.

With regards to Niki Sanders, Marc's comments sum up what I think is one of very real possibilty: that Niki, under the extreme stress of the fire, splintered a new personality entirely, with a new power to help the survive (ice). That would certainly be an interesting character in future seasons - someone who may have a handful of abilities, but requires a dramatic shift in personality to use them.

However, given the duality between Sylar and Peter, I am still not sure the show would introduce the possibilty for another multiple-power character, even one as constrained as a multiple-personality/mulitiple-power hero (villain?).

The other possibilty is that the character is actually Jessica - the REAL Jessica, who has somehow survived all these years since childhood, despite her family thinking she was dead.

Remember, in comics (and by extension, comic book movies/shows), nobody is really dead, except for Bucky and Uncle Ben - and Bucky came back (and Uncle Ben came back as a zombie).
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#97
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9/24/08 at 8:41am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Adam - your comments are bolded. This is all in the interest of friendly discourse. Heroes Season 1 was awesome and I hope they can get back there but right now the prospects of that are becoming dim.

Suffering implies lasting impact.

It does. If a timeline continues. Now that there are so many players that can time travel the chances of a timeline reset increase dramatically.

True, the destruction of New York was eventually averted, but none of the characters were in the same place they'd been at the beginning of the show. Yes, Future Peter stopped his own future from coming into being by shooting Nathan. But he created a whole new mess that the present-day heroes will have to deal with. I don't think you're going to see Future-Future Peter stop Future Peter, so the time travel still has consequences.

Yes and why didn't Mama Petrelli raise the flag on The Butterfly Effect right back in Season One?

This show has yet to pull a "Star Trek" where everything's back to square-one at the end of the episode (or season).

The key word is yet. The temptation will be there, especially if the series flounders in the ratings.

And you get this from what, two hours? I haven't seen any characters paired up this season that weren't either: a) thrown together arbitrarily last season or b) a natural fit considering the circumstances. It's going to take time to clean up the lingering mess of season two.

Yep, its not that difficult to see that the intent is shake things up and have characters that once were enemies as allies or vice-versa. Ando or Hiro are headed towards conflict. The preview showing Sylar and HRG teaming up is further proof of that. And I am sure this is just the start of character switching.

In two episodes they have shown the following either acting out of character or stupidly
- other posts have mentioned the specifics for each character:
1) Hiro
2) Peter
3) Sylar
4) Claire
5) Mohinder
6) Mama Petrelli - by virtue of not bringing up The ButterFly Effect previously

The writing for these characters is purely plot manipulation and not organic to the characters. The more I post about the first two hours the more disillusioned I become.

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

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#98
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9/24/08 at 9:22am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Mama Petrelli - by virtue of not bringing up The ButterFly Effect previously
When was she supposed to have brought it up? Has Peter ever travelled to the past before?

--
H
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#99
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9/24/08 at 9:27am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

The first two episodes of this season were light years above all 11 episodes in S2 as far as I'm concerned. I thought it was a great opener and I love the fact that "villains" are going to play a major role in this season.

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."

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#100
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9/24/08 at 9:42am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
It does. If a timeline continues. Now that there are so many players that can time travel the chances of a timeline reset increase dramatically.
Certainly, I'm just willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think Kring is dumb enough to just reset the entire season with a time traveler at the end. If that is what happens, I'll be the first one to bail.
Quote:
The key word is yet. The temptation will be there, especially if the series flounders in the ratings.
Of course the temptation is there, but I'm judging them by past performance. I trust the "Star Trek" people a lot less than the "Heroes" people because the "Heroes" people have not yet lost my trust.
Quote:
Yep, its not that difficult to see that the intent is shake things up and have characters that once were enemies as allies or vice-versa. Ando or Hiro are headed towards conflict. The preview showing Sylar and HRG teaming up is further proof of that. And I am sure this is just the start of character switching.
I think the NBC promos have played up this aspect far more than the show itself has so far. That being said, and this is just personal opinion, I'm really interested in where it's going. I want to see how Ando and Hiro end up diametrically opposed. I have a pretty good idea why
Warning Spoiler! Click to show
Sylar and HRG team up; it's the little old lady situation. You send a spider to catch a fly. Sylar's already proven that he can get at the Level 5 baddies. She'll worry about catching the spider once all of the flies have been eliminated
The biggest problem the Company has is that it's led by a bunch of pack rats. If they'd just destroyed the virus, burnt the formula and killed off the Level 5 baddies we wouldn't be in this mess.
Quote:
In two episodes they have shown the following either acting out of character or stupidly
- other posts have mentioned the specifics for each character:
1) Hiro
2) Peter
3) Sylar
4) Claire
5) Mohinder
6) Mama Petrelli - by virtue of not bringing up The ButterFly Effect previously

The writing for these characters is purely plot manipulation and not organic to the characters. The more I post about the first two hours the more disillusioned I become.
I thought all behaved pretty much as they should, with the except of Peter who is essentially a different character anyway. We've known from the get-go that Hiro is not somebody you hand the keys to Pandora's Box to. Sylar is pure evil, and that's what we got. We have no idea what motivates Future Claire, but present Claire acted exactly as we've come to expect from her. Mohinder didn't go off the deep end until he messed acround with his internal chemistry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
When was she supposed to have brought it up? Has Peter ever travelled to the past before?
Exactly. The only one who has puttered extensively in the past is Hiro (and the experience went badly enough that he's sworn off the past period -- which explains why he didn't jump back in time and prevent himself from opening the safe.)
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#101
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9/24/08 at 10:01am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Geez Lou, for someone who has spent years giving grief to people like me for getting frustrated with LOST, you are awfully quick to predict all sorts of doom and gloom based on two hours of a show that has delivered in spades before. How about some... patience? Hmmm?

I am glad Hiro told Ando his vision. Got that out of the way, instead of dragging it out. And it's perfectly in character with Hiro, who is pretty much incapable of deception.

I found the "sex scene" pretty jarring as well. Unlike the Nathan/Nikki/Jess tryst, which served the plot and kept us at a distance (at least that's how I remember it) this scene was intended to engage to viewer, and drew us in uncomfortably close. It felt like pandering.

--
H
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#102
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9/24/08 at 11:02am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Geez Lou, for someone who has spent years giving grief to people like me for getting frustrated with LOST, you are awfully quick to predict all sorts of doom and gloom based on two hours of a show that has delivered in spades before. How about some... patience? Hmmm?
H

Yes, interesting role reversal isn't it? Kinda of like Heroes right now.

The differences between Lost and Heroes is that in Lost the character arcs seem natural while in Heroes they play as artificial. Plus Heroes has already gone through a Second Season with poor results and so far Season 3 shows frustratingly similar gaffes.

Adam thanks for your analysis. You always do a great job! We differ greatly on how the characters have acted so far in Season 2.

Going into patience mode.

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

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#103
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9/24/08 at 11:04am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

So we know that Sylar doesn't eat brains to get other people's powers but how does he get them? I only saw him pointing his finger at Claire's brain and all of a sudden he had her power.

What did I miss?

Andres

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#104
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9/24/08 at 11:07am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres Munoz
So we know that Sylar doesn't eat brains to get other people's powers but how does he get them? I only saw him pointing his finger at Claire's brain and all of a sudden he had her power.

What did I miss?
Its his talent to look at things and intuitively understand how they work. This is the same talent he has when looking at the inner workings of time pieces.

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

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#105
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9/24/08 at 11:16am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Really good opener, I thought, back to s1 standards.

Quote:
So we know that Sylar doesn't eat brains to get other people's powers but how does he get them? I only saw him pointing his finger at Claire's brain and all of a sudden he had her power.

What did I miss?

Remember that Sylar's base power is the ability to see how things work just by looking at them. He was examining the workings of Claire's brain, to see how she accessed her power.
...Which kind of points to it not being an adrenaline thing at all, more unlocking powers that are there for everyone.
...And he was able to look at just the top of the brain to work everything out, which was also quite convenient.

Best not to think about it too much!
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#106
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9/24/08 at 11:36am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

I dunno, I saw him digging in there quite a bit.

I thought we ruled out the assuption of brain eating ever since we saw Sylar's origin way back in S1. It was made abundantly clear that his ability consisted in figuring out the mechanism of things/people and mimicking them.

Lou, the difference is that I was right about LOST

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H
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#107
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9/24/08 at 11:51am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Thanks guys. I totally had forgotten Sylar's base power. So in a way he's like the black girl from last season that could learn new skills just by watching.

Andres

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#108
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9/24/08 at 12:07pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andres Munoz
Thanks guys. I totally had forgotten Sylar's base power. So in a way he's like the black girl from last season that could learn new skills just by watching.

Well, Sylar can gain other powers, while Monica can only gain the ability to do something physically possible by a human being (such as backflips or martial arts, etc). You won't see Monica watching Nathan fly, and then flying herself.
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#109
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9/24/08 at 12:34pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Lou, the difference is that I was right about LOST

--
H
What's the counter - smilie to the tongue one?

The fact that I have found the last season of Lost awesome tells me otherwise!

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

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#110
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9/24/08 at 12:43pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Thanks for the breakdown, Josh, if you could do that on a weekly basis (via Hanson Yoo's American Idol weekly breakdown's) for us slow people that would be cool?

Of course I don't expect you to be as funny.
"You have no idea how far i'm willing to go to acquire your cooperation." - Jack Bauer
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#111
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9/24/08 at 12:58pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
I don't think Kring is dumb enough to just reset the entire season with a time traveler at the end. If that is what happens, I'll be the first one to bail.
if you bail by then, you certainly won't be the first.

Quote:
The differences between Lost and Heroes is that in Lost the character arcs seem natural while in Heroes they play as artificial
the other difference is that LOST seems to have a long term plan, while Heroes just plans one season at a time. i've pointed out the irrationality of Future Peter coming back to shoot his brother - i'm guessing that the writers didn't know who shot Nathan when they wrote it and just left it to later.

Quote:
Its his talent to look at things and intuitively understand how they work. This is the same talent he has when looking at the inner workings of time pieces.
beyond that, he also has the ability to change is physiology on a cellular level to process the power. it's like i can understand how a bird flies, doesn't mean i can fly myself.


"now, if that's a fact, tell me... am i lying?"

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#112
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9/24/08 at 1:07pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Peter shooting his brother definitely seems strange. But he is the one playing with the different timelines, and the fact is that we have no idea how he reached the conclusion that such a dramatic move was the best course of action.

I suspect that will make sense later on. The writers have certainly earned my trust for now.

(Lou, I think the last season of LOST was awesome as well. The low point was the 1st third or half of S3, when I actually did quit for a little bit.)

--
H
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#113
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9/24/08 at 1:09pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

The way I always looked at Sylar's ability is that of a computer program that is constantly upgrading itself, once he touches that part of the brain he's instantly "uploaded" with the new power.
"You have no idea how far i'm willing to go to acquire your cooperation." - Jack Bauer
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#114
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9/24/08 at 2:02pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Hiro is done with traveling back and clearly said so. Again, that was probably the most important aspect of these two hours hours: No traveling back from the "present"!

Thing is, he could have done this immediately after she stole it. So he'd go back like what, a minute, then put it right back in the safe. Don't think he'd have messed up any timelines doing that. Or even better, he burns it. His father only said to safeguard it from anyone else getting it. He never said not to destroy it.
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#115
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9/24/08 at 2:17pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Peter should have made a deal with Sylar long ago--let me get Claire's power and then you can pop open my brain and get mine. Then, you can leech without killing. Not that Sylar could be trusted or that you'd want him with that much power, but he's got the biggie now anyway.
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#116
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9/24/08 at 3:00pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
How do we know that "Future Peter" is any Peter at all? He can obviously change his appearance, so.......
The show definitely has a credibility problem. Obviously, they set it up so we're supposed to think that's it's Future Peter. But there's nothing to stop them from being "clever" and showing us that it was really time-traveling-shape-shifter, even someone we've never seen before. It depends on how much of a hole they dig themselves into.

Mama Petrelli is so concerned about the Butterfly Effect, but doesn't care about making Elle go freelance -- like that can't turn sour.

Quote:
Future Peter then stashes the gun in a utility closet, runs for a hiding spot (why not turn invisible?)
That's plausible -- to get Peter to chase him into the bathroom, so that FP can replace him.
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#117
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9/24/08 at 3:31pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Chan
That's plausible -- to get Peter to chase him into the bathroom, so that FP can replace him.

Right. I was more referring to why he didn't turn invisible as he ran away, so as to avoid being spotted by "regluar joes" or Parkman. He could still just go and grab Present Peter whenever he chose, and toss him only level 5.

However, I suspect it was more so the audience (us, not the press conference's) could see where he was going...
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#118
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9/24/08 at 8:31pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

you'd think Future Peter would just shoot Nathan and pop back to his own time, but another problem is that when Future Peter comes back to change things so drastically, he can't go back to his future because it never happened that way. and he can't go back to the "new" future because there will already be a Peter there, and that Peter's not going anywhere. so whenever he goes, it will already be occupied by another Peter (unless he jumps way ahead or way back).


"now, if that's a fact, tell me... am i lying?"

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#119
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9/24/08 at 10:48pm
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

I'm probably in the minority here but I really wasn't too impressed with the 2 hour opener for season 3. I'll keep giving it a chance but I'm still looking for something that really grabs my interest for the long term.

This show is about to go from "must watch" status to "may watch" for me if it doesn't focus shortly.

My 2 cents.
RAF
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#120
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9/25/08 at 8:34am
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Re: Heroes - Season Three

I'm sorry but I found the premier two hours to be very disappointing. What turned me on to Heroes in Season One was that although the initial character stories were isolated, I got the sense that a good story was driving developments and would weave the characters together. Season 1 accomplished that goal, though the big finale was a bit of a letdown. Now it seems that there is no central story, just endless efforts to solve story problems, create conflict then scramble to correct it. Endless plot complications feel like lame efforts to plug plot holes. My specific complaints about season three are:

Nikki now has a twin; this is one of the lamest plot devices ever (refer to Denise Crosby in TNG as a footnote)

Silar's schtick has gotten old. Its shock value has worn off. The writers should have let him die in the season one climax and introduced fresh villains. Oh and if he need only see or touch the brains of heroes to steal their powers, why are their brains always missing after he's done?

No one stays dead in this show! Nikki reappears (to be fair as a new character), Linderman is back, Nathan is back, Claire's mom is back. It seems there is no action that some deus ex machina cannot reset.

Plot devices that were once fresh are endlessly recycled. The clairvoyant artist, the future man returning to the past to set things right, the superhero killer, the dark future to be averted (we're on our third reiteration of that).

Some of the more interesting story elements have been dropped. I wanted to know more about the Odessa Paper Company operation and the league of superhero elders that raised and seek to guide this generation.

\"The old that is strong does not wither, deep roots are not reached by the frost.\"

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