Heroes - Season Three

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Ok, I've had more time to ponder the problems I have with this, and the thing is, I'm not sure how well sketched out this season can be. They've setup a situation where yes, there are villains out there who've been released from this super secret section.

Peter came back from the past to prevent them from getting hunted.. in the end, this is the most sure fire way to do that, to get rogue crazies out there.

The whole bit about Sylar getting Claire's powers hit me as pretty wrong. Yes, it's a great plot point, but they've slowly turned Sylar into more then an ominous bad guy, but into a super creepy, immortal, all-powerful bad guy. Now that he has the power to turn metal to gold along with being invincible, etc. the solution for him becomes more difficult to realize. It's a real painting into a corner; if he has tons of money at his hand (easy for someone who can create gold), etc.

Sylar getting the powers is almost a reverse of "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World.."

I have this gut feeling that they are moving in a direction wherein the only viable solution is to go back and revise all that happened so that it didn't happen.. thanks to time travelers, an inbuilt reset button.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

The particularly impressive thing about the reveal on Angela's power was that it makes complete sense. We'd assumed that the future visions were just part of his absorbing ability, but in fact was the first power he absorbed. Um, you just described "Heroes" from the beginning: lots of people with superpowers across the globe busy with convoluted and interconnected storylines. "Smallville" it ain't. To be fair, he was on the verge of chucking it into the Hudson when he instinctively injected himself. Everything behaviorally after that I think can be considered a side effect of the injection, including his animal magnetism. I would agree, but the show is careful to make sure that every "fix" actually just leads to an equally terrible consequence. In season one, we got the impression that future Hiro had been trying dozens if not hundreds of times before he finally got things right. His strings clearly showed just how complex time travel in this universe is. From what we saw last night, future Peter didn't have any better luck; stop Nathan from outing the heroes, make Sylar essentially immortal. As I recall, she was VERY concerned about the Butterfly Effect. She was so concerned, in fact, that she was willing to let New York City be destroyed in order to prevent it -- in fact, turn her oldest son into a genocidal maniac to prevent it. The difference is, she has a lot more influence with future Peter than future Hiro, for obvious reasons. It could, and I'd be just as pissed as you are. But I don't think it will. The bigger deus ex machina in my opinion is the use of Claire's blood as a universal healer. It's been a long time since any of the regulars have actually died. I loved that. Not only did we finally see Sylar's process, but we got a little wink and a nod on top of it. I'm thinking he ramped up her self-defense mechanism to another level. If her power works like Adam's did, it's because her healing factor constantly preserves her at the state when her power first manifested. If that's the case, she will forever be a teenager. It's of course also possible that she will age until her physical peak but avoid suffering any of the wear and tear that follows. Ah, but her head wasn't severed. If you cut through her brain, she might die, but Sylar just popped her skull off and left her brain intact. This is what I think is being underestimated by folks here. The volume is entitled "Villians." The Level 5 baddies that escaped are going to be the main conflict, I think, with the African guy's painting of the world splitting in two stretching over the whole season. Drugs. Heavy drugs from an IV. As soon as they pull the IV, he'll pop right back up, but in the meantime he's out. It's not Nikki. Nikki burned to death in New Orleans. We don't know who this is, nor why she looks identical to Nikki. Either Nathan's near death experience triggered a Baltar/Six breakdown or something stranger and more nefarious is happening her. She didn't seem to have much choice. Mohinder basically pinned her and mounted her before she could get a word in edgewise. I'm just happy to feel anything. The show has actual stakes again. It's hard to argue that the people who plotted out Season One aren't good writers. They're more ambitious than most on TV. The problem is, we're not dealing with a solitary hero like Batman or Superman, nor an organized team like the X-Men. For them to all band together, it takes a pretty impressive calamity. And in order to know what you have to stop, you have to know in advance. As I mentioned earlier, I think the focus of this volume will be the escaped villians, not the global calamity. Once again, I would argue that all of the characters who have played god with timelines have suffered terribly for it. The whole point of the Butterfly Effect is that such moves have vast, unintended consequences. Had Peter not gone back in time and stopped Nathan, he would have never told Claire to stay home. Sylar wouldn't have gotten Claire's powers (and thereby become immortal) and he wouldn't have found the files to Level 5. If he hadn't found the files to Level 5, the villians wouldn't have been released. In my mind, the show is exceptionally careful with it's use of time travel. Clearly there is more to Claire's ability than just healing factor. The Petrellis are like the Skywalkers of the "Heroes" universe. To my mind, it made a sort of sense; Nathan was blessed with the ability to fly, and brought back from the brink of death twice. It makes sense that he'd see himself as an angel. My assumption was that Ando took Mohinder's shot, and that's the power he ended up with. Not only new powers, but now we know where future Peter got his blue flame ability from.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Claire was threatening to tell the world near the end of last season too, wasn't she? So she'd been going through his paperwork and looking for all of the incriminating stuff?

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I'm still unclear on what happened to the Peter from present day. Future Peter took his mind and put it in another body but what happened to his original body?

I thought it was a very good and encouraging opening. The time travel is going to get old if it becomes a weekly crutch. Maybe it won't but the consequences will. I do agree they are using it to stop the regulars being killed though.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Quoting Adam Lenhardt
In line with Patrick's post about the time travelling reset button, who cares how much the characters suffer? Its all going to be washed away. Actions and reactions have no lasting impact and hence none for the audience. Prime examples of this can be found on TNG and Voyager etc where the ship and crew are critically wounded or destroyed and then everything is reset back to the start at the end of the hour. At least with those examples it only lasts for that episode, here we are already stuck with another season long arc of time travel.

As to the interconnected relationships, at least lines were drawn along natural lines in Season One and seemed organic. Now in Season Three the approach seems to be, well we've mined out everything we can from the storylines of the previous seasons, lets throw all the characters into a drama blender and see how much we can pump up the angst.

The difference between good and bad storytelling is that at its core good storytelling feels right or true. What's going on in the third season seems to be manipulation which feels false and hence engages one less.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

It's convenient that Hiro's "nemesis" seems reasonably nice -- otherwise he'd be dead.

Ambitious, sure. Just not that good. The ending of Season One was a disappointment.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

For those wondering about Nikki/whatever her name is, an article in Wizard says that answers will be provided in the third episode. Probably not all the answers, but some.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I enjoyed the episode though there are a few weird things. It seems that ghost Linderman explains it was him using his ability that saved Nathan from death. I thought future Peter did something, but maybe it was a combination.

I also thought at the end of Season 2 that Mrs. Petrelli had put the hit on Nathan, but apparently she just recognized future Peter? I also thought that Peter had gotten his dream powers from Charles Deveaux, but maybe that was a different power?

As far as Niki, since she not only was in an exploding building, but also was dying at the same time due to being injected with the virus, I think it is safe to say that she really is dead. The new ice queen is an interesting way to keep Ali Larter in the cast and play with everyone's minds. Of course, maybe there is more here than meets the eye here.

Be sure to check out 9th Wonders | Greg Beeman for lots of interesting pictures behind the scenes of the two episodes (including Claire standing around with her brains). They give an cute deleted scene of Sylar vs. Mr. Muggles in Claire's house that might be a DVD extra so I'll put it in spoilers:
Warning Spoiler! Click to show And there might be some things that people consider slight spoilers such as more info about Niki (including a picture).

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Perhaps this is the season where Sylar "saves the day." I'm not saying he'll become a hero per se (though comics have been known to shift characters from one side to the other), but ever since it was revealed that his name was Gabriel Gray, I alway thought eventually his "grey" side would come out. That is to say that eventually he might walk the thin line between hero and villain. It certainly would be an interesting turn of events to have the major villain of the series (arguably) shifting roles.

Of course, given the duality theme between Sylar and Peter, this would mean Peter would edge closer towards villain - something we have seen flashes of before.

Perhaps it's Sylar who "fixes" the entire timeline mess in volume 3.

Also, the show is clearly introducing a religion-influenced theme, with the frequent references to angels, god, and the like. 2 characters in particular follow this theme: Nathan has obvious angelic qualities due to his power of flight, and Gabriel Gray shares a name with an Archangel who may also be seen as the Angel of Death.

It may also not be a coincidence there are 4 villains on the loose, now - the four horsemen? Heroes certainly wouldn't be the first thing to transport over some religious influences and imagery, even if they don't turn out to be direct references/copies.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I don't think Sylar can be redeemed, but I was hoping for a line of dialog where he said something to Claire like, "I don't like having to kill people to take their powers, but nobody else can heal like you." Could have been said in response to her, "Are you going to kill me," but his line about her being immortal was more important.

It would have been a lie anyway, since we've seen him take pleasure from killing.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Well, in the scenes for next week
Warning Spoiler! Click to show As far as Peter being a villain, I think future Peter is already leaning that way. Just how long is he going to stick around in the present and how long will current Peter be in Weevil's body? (The answer to both of these might be the same.)

Neil

Re: Heroes - Season Three

And is future Peter even future Peter? Didn't Mama say something about "you've been on this planet too long?" Maybe he's an extra-testicle.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Okay I am confused...

1. Is Nathan Patrelli or Peter Patrelli actually Nathan or Peter?
There's the bald cinvict guy who escaped that claims to be Petrelli.
What is that all about?

2. How do we know the difference between the Peter Patrelli
from the future (with scars) and the present day Peter Patrelli?

I don't know how I got this confused, but I look forward to an
explanation.

Not a bad season opener. Certainly looks more promising than
Season 2 at this point.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

We barely saw present Peter in this episode. He was by Nathan's side and then chased future Peter into a bathroom. From that point on, it was all future Peter because future Peter somehow zapped present Peter into Weevil's body. The scar didn't matter, because future Peter was just covering the scar to appear to be present Peter.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

How do we know that "Future Peter" is any Peter at all? He can obviously change his appearance, so.......

Re: Heroes - Season Three

While I enjoyed the show overall, I was somewhat bothered that the writers had forced Hiro to swallow a whole bottle of stupid pills.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

This bothered me too.

"Don't do it"
"I will do it"
"Really, don't do it, super dangerous, world will end type stuff."
"Doesn't matter! I'm in, let's do it"

For all the respect and honor he paid his father in the first two seasons, this seemed like one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I mentioned that above, but I was trying to explain to Ron the difference as we know it right now. As I said, though, Ma Petrelli seems to really hate the guy and said something about "you've been on this planet too long." Maybe it's taking things too literal to start imagining Peter's an from that line, but eh, could be.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Eh, you realize what you're accusing Mohinder of here, right? If Maya didn't want to, she certainly would have protested.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Whew! I feel like *I* just took a shot of Mohinder's magic juice! Great start even though I havn't the foggiest damn idea of what's going on or why lol.

Adam helped clear some things up but damn, it feels like Kring just picked me up and threw me head-long into a raging hurricane!

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I'm not sure how confusion has arisen, but I'll try to summarize:

- there are 4 seperate threads, though I assume they are all connected, or will connect.

- In the future, those with abilities are hunted down, experimented on, tortured, et cetera, and are forced "underground." This is a direct result of Nathan's public reveal of his power of flight. For some, yet to be revealed reason, a future Claire chooses to kill Peter, who of course stops time to avoid being shot, takes Claires gun, and travels back in time to the press conference, and shoots Nathan.

- Future Peter then stashes the gun in a utility closet, runs for a hiding spot (why not turn invisible?), and is pursued by Present Peter. The two Peters enter the men's bathroom and we aren't shown what transpires. The result, it is later revealed, is that Future Peter, with the use a power that isn't fully explored, is able to place the physical and mental being of Present Peter inside of another individual. Future Peter chooses a criminal super human housed on the mysterious level 5 of the Odessa Company facility, as it is the most secure location he can think of. It seems while in the other body, the consciousness of Present Peter exerts itself over the body of the criminal.

- Though another power, Future Peter is able to alter his appearance, becoming a doppleganger for Present Peter. However, in a Quantum Leap-style decision, the villain who the real Present Peter now inhabits, is only seen in reflections - Milo the actor portrays the villain/Peter combo when seen on screen. The exception to this comes early in the episodes, before the reveal that Present Peter is indeed inside the villain's body. At that point, we are led to believe it's simply the insane ramblings of a criminal.

- Thus, we have two Peters in the storyline: One is from the future, and pretending to be Present Peter so that he may manipulate/monitor events in an attempt to prevent the future we glimpsed. He has a scar when appearing as himself, but otherwise looks like the Present Peter when blending in. The other Peter is Present Peter, who is currently locked in the body of a villain with sonic powers.

- Future Peter, as part of his attempt at altering the future, told Claire (all characters are assumed to be the present forms) to stay home, presumably to keep her safe from anything that may transpire following the incident at the press conference. However, this was met with disaster as Claire was visited by Sylar, who was able to gain Claire's ability to heal. Presumably, if Claire hadn't been told to stay home, Sylar would have walked away "empty handed."

- Other stuff happens with this thread, but those are the major points that I can see people getting messed up on.

- the other 3 threads are: Matt, having been tossed into Africa by Future Peter (via another new power, or an advanced form of space/time manipulation), meets a shaman or spirit guide of some sort, who seems to have a Mendez-like ability to paint the future. Hiro, meanwhile, is on a mission to regain a piece of some formula he was charged by his Father to protect. Mohinder, in an attempt to "cure" Maya of her power, has discovered the true source of the abilities, and injected himself with a concoction he made from that research. Consequently, he is now exhibiting signs of insect-like powers. It is unclear, but possible, that the formula Hiro is attempting to get back, is just what Mohinder has discovered on his own: the ability to give powers to normal people.

cheers!

Josh

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Suffering implies lasting impact. When the timeline is messed with on this show, only once has there been a gigantic reset button (and that was with the haphazard season two finale which was rushed into production ahead of the strike; the virus would have been released had the strike not happened). True, the destruction of New York was eventually averted, but none of the characters were in the same place they'd been at the beginning of the show. Yes, Future Peter stopped his own future from coming into being by shooting Nathan. But he created a whole new mess that the present-day heroes will have to deal with. I don't think you're going to see Future-Future Peter stop Future Peter, so the time travel still has consequences. This show has yet to pull a "Star Trek" where everything's back to square-one at the end of the episode (or season). And you get this from what, two hours? I haven't seen any characters paired up this season that weren't either: a) thrown together arbitrarily last season or b) a natural fit considering the circumstances. It's going to take time to clean up the lingering mess of season two. We'll have to wait and see who saved Nathan. Clearly, Nathan believes that it's Linderman, but if Linderman is a hallucination, it has to be someone else--probably Future Peter. His power was apparently to travel other people's dreams, hence "riding" with Peter in his first dream about flight. Assuming he visited Angela's dreams frequently, it would enable him to have essentially the same precognition.

As for the phone call with Angela, I think we have to assume that it was about another matter entirely at this point. She clearly wasn't talking to Future Peter. There'd better be. Having a character who just happens to look identical to a dead character is too much of a stretch. Nathan Petrelli is Nathan Petrelli. There's only one running around, and he's not secretly anybody else. Peter is Future Peter, come back like Future Hiro in Season One to prevent some apocolypse or injustice. Present day Peter is stuck in the body of the bald convict, "Quantum Leap" style. So, to recap:
- two Peters, one from the future who looks like Peter, one from the present who looks like a convict.
- one Nathan Petrelli who looks like Nathan Petrelli.
Present day Peter Petrelli is bald and running around with convicts. Future Peter looks like Peter, both with and without the scar thanks to Candice's illusion ability. I'm not saying it's rape, per say. I'm saying it's animal magnetism at it's most primal, which seems to tie in directly with what's happening to Mohinder generally.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I missed William Katt, which character was he.

As to Hiro and his whole situation in this episode.

1. Right after speed chick stole the formula, why didn't he just go back like 2 minutes and put it right in the safe?

2. Which brings up point 2, and I think this may be really significant, if he and his father believe the formula is so dangerous, why keep that half? Why not destroy it, burn it, so nobody can ever get it?

Oh well, good to have Heroes back, regardless.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I am a bit surprised at the amount of confusion as well. Good summary.

I liked it a lot, it's looking a lot better than season 2.

Heroes has changed. I will never be like S1 again, and that's OK. I like where it's going now.

Assuming that Claire's power is the same as Adam's, it would certainly explain why the Mama Pitrelli and Co. had him locked up rather than dead.

Fans of The Wire will recognize Jamie Hector (Marlo) as one of the escaped villains. I hope he sticks around.

For those concerned about the Reset Button that time travel affords, I believe that was the whole purpose of the second episode, titled "The Butterfly Effect". The writers have gone of out their way to signal that traveling back has momentous consequences and that it will be used sparingly. They are setting the rules for this season right off the bat.

--
H

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I'm confused that some of you aren't confused lol.

The fact that you can make sense out of the mess of plots, time lines, villains, powers and alternate futures that make-up this show amazes me beyond comprehension.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Hiro is done with traveling back and clearly said so. Again, that was probably the most important aspect of these two hours hours: No traveling back from the "present"!

The season just got started, I trust we will know at some point.

--
H

Re: Heroes - Season Three

Would you consider it a superpower?

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I believe he was the reporter who got iced.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

i didn't like this premiere, there were so many illogical (even for the show) things that happened in the first 15 minutes...
-i can only assume that there was a reason Future Claire thought she could actually shoot future Peter. does she not know what he's capable of?
-Hiro opening the safe was so predictable and lame they shouldn't have spent an excruciating 2 or 3 minutes getting to it. Sulu chastising his kid for opening the safe, then telling him how gravely important it is to protect it's contents... of course it's always important to speak in code and not give any specific details regarding the nature of the threat, or who'd come to get it, since it wouldn't help Hiro protect it or anything...
-Future Peter flashing back to KILL HIS BROTHER?!?!? no, don't time travel a couple minutes/days/months before that specific moment and just TALK TO HIM. shooting him makes way more sense. how 'bout time travelling back to before Sylar got his powers and shooting ~him~?.
-Mohinder arguing with annoying plague-girl about how great discovering his new secret was, was totally out of character. he was one of the few likeable characters (and that group is shrinking)

what i did like: Claire being special among the specials seems promising. though that "am i human" talk is getting close to her i-hate-my-daddy/who-am-i annoyingly familiar. and the african guy was cool.

Re: Heroes - Season Three

I think Nikki is still around. My theory is that she developed another personality with a different ability. I don't think it is a coincidence that the last we saw her, she was about to be burned alive, and that now she has the ability to turn things to ice (and probably save herself from the fire). I think that her personalities develop when needed and manifest whatever ability the personaility needs.

The current "Nikki" probably doesn't even know that she has these other personalities.

If that woman turns out not to be the same physical person as Nikki, I will be very disappointed. Why would there be someone else who looks exactly the same?