HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

You mean my two options are 1) Warners being out to get me; and 2) Warners not supporting me? Is there a door no. 3?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Door number three is "Warner is trying various approaches to titles on the two formats, some of which I like and some of which I do not", but this version does not lend itself to dramatic ultimatums, so where's the fun in that?

Regards,

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Yeah, but the Blu-ray conspiracy is real while the DVD conspiracy is just paranoia. The men in the Black Helicopters said so.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Let me add my voice to the dismayed chorus of what this thread has degenerated to. If I wasn't already sold Mr. McAlinden, your review would certainly have tipped me over and I'm looking forward to the Cinerama documentary.

But I do wish the blu-ray fanboys would stop turning every thread into a promotion for blu-ray. If I cry "Uncle!" will you guys stop or do you just enjoy torturing me?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Actually, I get great pleasure in torturing you.






Crawdaddy

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I am not paranoid. You are just saying that because you hate me like everyone else.

Regards,

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Ken, I just had to say that I loved this line in your review. Well done. I'll be ordering the release, despite the lack of a Smilebox transfer.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I have to be honest, I don't quite understand this whole Smileboxing. Does it actually work on a large display? From the screenshots, it looks like it might be distracting.

As for Cinerama being a "gimmick", of course it was. Like 3-D, it was initially a way to compete with TV, to get people back into the theatre. That isn't to say it wasn't a valid technological achievement, but it was originally a "gimmick".

Great review. I've never cared for HTWWW (which I thought was more an ad for Cinerama than a film) but this review makes me want to check out the DVD.

And as for the laserdisc vs VHS debate, it works quite well. Back in the 80's, laserdiscs were the only way to see most films letterboxed. They could have been letterboxed on VHS, but the studios didn't think people were interested. Same with extras on Blu-Ray. Like I said, I don't even understand the smileboxing and I've been around here for years, and was heavily involved in laserdiscs even longer.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Thanks to Brent for posting those screencaps - It's apparent that the join lines haven't been 100% removed in all shots, but i expected that since it seemed to me the quality of the 3 different panels had slightly different levels of deterioration over the years. It still looks phenomenal.

For everyone who wanted the letterbox version abolished, if you just buy a new $20,000 projector with an anamorphic lens and curved screen for your home theater, you'd see how silly that statement is as the letterbox can become the "smilebox" version in almost every way. The point is, why downgrade a potential presentation of the film because YOU can't afford the proper equipment. Not that I can myself, but the whole notion is silly.

As for the extras being different across various versions, I was kinda bummed out about that myself but a)it makes good business sense and b) Warner has stated in either their press release or later in comments that the added clarity and capacity in blu-ray is why the smile box version is on that set instead of all sets. Also, if you look at the upcoming Casablanca Ultimate Set, you'll see Warner has stopped the practice of separating extras as both sets are the same save for the HD. They still and always have been THE BEST studio for offering up classic titles on home video.

Finally, WB didn't drop HD DVD because the public left it as a format. It was because the Blu-Ray consortium gave them a truckload of money and a portion of revenue from the licensing as they've been the number one selling studio for over a decade now.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

The best thing about How the West Was Won is Alfred Newman's magnificent music score, one of the most famous western themes ever.


Distracting and from the screenshots the movie looks even more distorted. I'm glad it's not included on the SD-DVD, to be honest it looks as gimmicky as the cinerama process.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

What Cinerama was trying to do with its three projectors and a 146 degree deeply curved screen was to give you the feeling of "being there". The smilebox processs tries to duplicate this by curving the letterboxed image to make it look like you are seeing it on a 146 degree Cinerama screen.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Yeah but since the curve is 2-D, the process doesn't look right at all.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I think seeing the SmileBox process with a *moving* image is going to be quite different from looking at screen captures. I agree that in the samples there appears to be a measure of distortion even beyond the inherent stretching expected in the process. For instance, little Debbie Reynolds has never looked taller than she does in the SmileBox example.

But since no one has posted actual frames from the Blu-ray movie proper (only the snippets included in THE CINERAMA ADVENTURE documentary), I am reserving judgement until my BD arrives and I can see the images in motion on my 65" screen. I expect that the camera movement is likely to contribute to the "you-are-there" experience in a way that still pictures cannot.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

BTW, Nice review.

I find it interesting that the traditionally letterboxed version has a lot more information showing on the sides than the Smilebox version. I suspect they may have cropped the Smilebox version so as not to lose too much resolution in the central portion of the image; although, that is just my uneducated guess.

The traditionally letterboxed version looks like it may be the most accurate version in terms of AR; however, I'm no expert on this film so I will wait for confirmation from others who are more familiar with the in and outs of the film.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Actually, you won't know the answer to that question until someone reviews the Blu-Ray version - the screencaps here are from the Cinerama Adventure documentary, and those may not be accurate.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

It all depends on your definition of "a lot". The letterboxed image is about 2.8:1 and the image that comes from the letterboxed that is shown in smilebox is about 2.5:1. So, about 10% of the image is missing. The scan's that are shown in this thread are from a PC which should have no overscan. Most TV's have some overscan so you might be missing 5-10% when you watch a movie anyhow. Unless of course your TV has 0 overscan.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Oddly enough, the Smilebox screencaps look 'truer' to me; it's three (or more) years since I last saw HTWWW in all its three-panel glory, but they certainly do capture the spirit.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

When How the West Was Won had its roadshow run, it was at Cinerama theatres only. You paid top dollars - (up to $3.50 a ticket!) to see it on a large deeply curved screen and seven channels of stereo sound. They had only two showings a day. It was reserved seats only and you got dressed up - (most men in suits and women in dresses). You were escorted to your seat by a uniformed usher.

After its run at Cinerama theatres (in London it played for three years at the Casino Cinerama Theatre), it was shown at your local theatre. It was on a flat screen, played continuously, you could dress as you like and your ticket was probably 70 cents.

If you want to see it the way it was shown at the local flat screen 70 cents per ticket theatre then the flat letterboxed image is the way to go. If you want to see how it was shown at a Cinerama Theatre, the smilebox version is for you. You decide.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

But does the smilebox version really give you an illusion of depth? You are watching it on a flat screen after all.

That is what I don't understand. I know how Cinerama works, but how does this smilebox work?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Unfortunately, we can't decide, those of us who have not gone Blu-Ray. Thanks to Warners apparently incredible business sense, they have precluded the majority of their customers from being able to decide. And I say hooey to that.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

And around we go. The dog is still chasing his tail.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

No; we can decide. It's just that the decision will cost (@ minimum) $350.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

The decision will cost me just £9.99.

Play.com (UK) : How The West Was Won (3 Discs) : DVD - Free Delivery

I just hope they've included a few extras with it.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

So how is it that Warners have managed to include EVERYTHING on the cheaper packaged standard UK release but on their blown out super deluxe R1 box set we are offered even less? Nobody can use the production cost excuse anymore. What a misfire...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Marco; AFAIK, the extras have yet to be revealed for the R2 SE (there is no UK UCE BTW), but it appears to be the equivalent of the R1 SE - what do you think it has the R1 hasn't?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Below from Dave Strohmaier, director of Cinerama Adventure on smilebox.


HOW SMILEBOX CURVED SCREEN CAME ABOUT




By Dave Strohmaier, director of Cinerama Adventure



Cinerama was not the gimmick many people think it was, gimmick or fads don't last 20 years and also have several titles in the number on box office category. The whole town of Hollywood helped me to make this historic documentary from major studios to the smallest of film libraries as well as several high end LA post production and effects houses. They all did this for free, imagine in Hollywood, free!

One of the results of doing this project was that the original Cinerama 3 panel process was installed in two American cities, Seattle and in Hollywood. Oh and yes when it is shown on occasion at either of these two cities. I and 3 other historian projection volunteers are in the booth running it. People often have tears in their eyes afterwards when they come to the projection booth to visit us after the show to shake our hands. I guess you could say that I and my projectionist pals have seen 3 panel and 70mm Cinerama more often and anyone other than perhaps the few remaining retired Cinerama projectionist who ran it everyday in the old days.

One of the things we wanted to do in the documentary was to show people how different/special the Cinerama experience was, as one would have to be about 45+years old to have seen it. Many young people would simply laugh at a letterboxed image of the three panels on the screen saying "what's so special about this, where is this curve you keep talking about" and I would not blame them. So we had award winning 3D graphics experts, digital engineers, Oscar winning cinematographers, film historians you name it get involve with creating a "look" that we could use for the Cinerama shots in our 16 x 9 HD documentary. We wanted this effect/treatment to be what people saw back then, although admittedly not from the first 10 rows, as most people didn't see it from those rows anyway, those were the 4.00+ seats. After about two months of testing, and trying several things, including projecting the original 3 panel Cinerama focus charts on the Seattle Cinerama 146 degree screen checking for horizontal and vertical distortions, we came up with the SmileBox process for the documentary. We needed to take full advantage of the standard HD 16 x 9 frame and fill it edge to edge and yet have a 146 degree effect that would approximate what people saw in Cinerama theaters. Yes it has its limitations to be sure, but within these limitations we do feel we have succeeded. Next we showed it to several film historians and to the Cinerama Corporation itself. Cinerama still exists as a relatively inactive division of Pacific Theaters here in California. When we showed the first test on the "flat" screen at Arclight Cinemas in Hollywood everyone was amazed at how effective the SmileBox process was in recreating a Cinerama like effect on a flat screen. Most of our documentary is archival footage, old newsreels, interviews etc and they are all in 4x3 inside of 16X9 so when Cinerama shots appear they are both wide and curved. We are most fortunate that every review the documentary has gotten has been a glowing one and most of them mention the effectiveness of the Smilebox process as giving "audiences the look and feel of Cinerama". One funny incident happened at the Palm Springs film festival screening where a few women had to cover their eyes when the roller coaster scene appeared in Smilebox, they told me after the screening they were getting very dizzy. Funny, this often happens at the actual 3 panel Cinerama screenings at the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood.

This brings me to How The West Was Won and the use of Smilebox in the September Blue Ray release that will include Cinerama Adventure. The Blue Ray package will include the letterboxed version and the Smilebox version of HTWWW and both will be fully restored and will look fantastic. I saw some scenes at Warner's the other day both letterbox and SmileBox and it knocked my socks off. Warner's thought it would be a good idea to have HTWWW in Smilebox as an extra version for those who want to recreate the Cinerama look on their flat screens, I feel the bigger screen the better it works. They are going the extra mile in an effort to please the film lover and hope it will.

Sure Smilebox may not be for everyone but due to the response we have gotten for Cinerama Adventure many people will enjoy it. Due to the fact that Smilebox was developed for free at a major effects house in Hollywood we are likewise making it available to Warner's release for free. I hope this gives you a little background on how Smilebox came about and that it was painstakingly developed with lots of expert imput. I consider myself a bit of a perfectionist and believe me I have seen Cinerama from every seat in the house (front, side and back row) at all 3 existing Cinerama theaters, Seattle, Bradford Media Museum,UK, and the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood and Smilebox will approximate a Cinerama effect on flat 16 x 9 screens.

Dave Strohmaier
Producer, Director, Editor, Cinerama Adventure
CINERAMA ADVENTURE ANNOUNCES CINERAMA SCREENINGS

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Thanks Roland; "...I feel the bigger screen the better it works..." - makes me want to dash out and plunk down the cash for a PJ, a HUMONGOUS screen and a BD player...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Or, you could plunk down the cash for a plane flight to Los Angeles, and a ticket to the event described below:

From the Los Angeles Times
SCREENING ROOM
'How the West Was Won' back in Cinerama at ArcLight Hollywood
The Cinerama Dome will show the landmark 1963 epic in its recently restored original three-projector Cinerama format and seven-channel sound.
By Susan King
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

September 4, 2008

Big-screen films didn't get much bigger or wider than in Cinerama.

And this Sunday, the Cinerama Dome at the ArcLight in Hollywood will show the landmark 1963 epic "How the West Was Won" in its recently restored original three-projector Cinerama format and seven-channel sound, just as it was presented at the Dome 45 years ago in its initial roadshow engagements. The Dome is one of only three theaters in the world left that is able to show Cinerama in all its widescreen glory. John Ford, Henry Hathaway and George Marshall directed the sprawling saga; Gregory Peck, Debbie Reynolds and James Stewart led the cast of thousands. Redirect to the right page

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Hi Ken,

Thanks again for the great review. Does the overture, intermission and exit music play over a blank screen? Also, too bad they didn't include the 6 minute 3-strip Cinerama trailer.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Now you're talking!
You can't know what you're missing, not seeing HTWWW in Cinerama at the Arclight. As stated below, Cinerama is not a gimmick, it's a visual language that must be seen to be appreciated. The story of America's westward expansion is big enough and just the right size for Cinerama.