HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Blu-Ray may be the future, but a lot of people don't want to be shoved into it like this - forced to buy it or miss out on things like the Smilebox. It was consumers who put Warner Home Video on the map with DVDs and they should show a little respect for them. For now, I'm sure that some person at Warners realizes that Blu-Ray is a niche market akin to laserdiscs right now. It may grow, it may not, but there are millions of DVD consumers who are not ready to make the switch, no matter how better the quality.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Withholding extras is really really low on WB's part.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Well, not hard to understand at all, and quite logical from a business point of view. What is difficult to swallow is for them to use the title 'Ultimate Collector's Edition' when the SD version clearly is not. Of course, what they want is for us to buy the SD version AND the BD version, which is why, taken on their own, neither will truly satisfy 'collectors'. And so it goes...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

If offering less than the usual expected quality from a company known for exceptional products (and on such a high-end release), is a new policy to push loyal supporters to upgrade to a system which many feel is still inadequate or inappropriate for their needs, than I too will tell that company to take a hike! It IS bad business whether you agree with the decision or not. I think we need to start sending the message LOUD AND CLEAR that if studios expect to create a monopoly on BluRay discs by downgrading their standard DVD releases... we will simply hold out and not buy either!

It's the equivalent of a chef at an upscale restaurant strongly recommending an evening special but than when the patron orders otherwise, he slaps together the order with little care or effort and charges full price for the same dish. No thanks!

If I can't watch this movie in the most optimal format as it is otherwise available and should be the standard seen on a hugely successful commercial format which I've been supporting for years (as opposed to spend ridiculous amounts of money to upgrade to a system that doesn't interest me for SO many reasons right now! than I'll simply spend the money on something else that is presented to it's most effective and fullest potential. I don't support mediocrity and at the very least, WHV could have released a standalone 2-discer for the Smileboxed version of the film, if they weren't going to include it on their incomplete box set that is more about looking spiffy than the actual content and quality within.

I pass on this too... I'll give it a rental and wait for it to be presented as it should be.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

And in its irony, simply another excuse for dissatisfied consumers like myself to not accept BluRay as the new standard format with so many oversights like this which do not appeal to consumers.

DVD is still a hugely commercial source of income and finance for the studios and it's driven by US... to pretend otherwise by downgrading products in favor of a niche format is shameful. Simply put, this was a low tactic on the part of WB and since I wasn't given the option and choice as a consumer, I'm voicing my opinion by not buying any of the releases.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I'm glad to see there are a few of us still speaking up. There's no defense for this - Warners used to be my favorite, but with this single action they have moved to the bottom of the barrel.

I'm sure others have noticed that certain studios are doing rather lackluster transfers for standard DVDs so that the Blu-Ray transfers seem to blow them out of the water.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

And this is why Criterion, in my book, has consistently been the best DVD producer out there. They stated quite clearly that none of their DVDs nor Blu-rays will contain exclusive extras from one another.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

This is worse than withholding extras... it's like making a brand new anamorphic widescreen transfer of a film and than releasing it letterboxed on DVD. Why would anybody buy that??

The most frustrating part of this is that THE TRANSFER EXISTS yet they are holding it hostage and refusing to allow the very people who helped them excel to the top of the elite among DVD producers enjoy it! We spend thousands of dollars a year on plastic discs but still Warner Bros. won't offer us proper presentation of a film without going BR or double-dipping on this title in separate formats??

It's greedy, selfish and absurd!

If the new trend is to stop caring about the presentation of films on standard DVD than I'll simply stop spending my money. This is NOT the way to sell us on Blu Ray WHV!!!

It is a good way of pushing us even farther away though...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

With the money Criterion charges for every one of their releases I can see why.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

It's business; Warners have a policy and we'll no doubt see more of it. Ultimately (no pun intended), the consumer will decide; this consumer momentarily wavered over whether to cancel his Amazon pre-order. Momentarily, but I'm better now...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

You're right! From my point of view, I don't have a problem with what Warner is doing with the regular dvd. However, for the ultimate edition and at that price point I think Warner is wrong not including that feature despite what they're trying to accomplish with Blu-ray.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

The fact is, watching HTWWW in ANY format other than Theatrical Cinerama is a compromise. Just accept the fact that there's no way can Smilebox or Letterbox or any existing home video presentation can possibly recreate the original experience, and live with it. Remember that Cinerama was a gimmick -- a fascinating gimmick, but a gimmick that didn't catch on. HTWWW was made to showcase this gimmick. As such, HTWWW was an interesting experiment, but was hardly a great movie. (Personally, I think some of it is pretty lame -- and I even thought so when I was 11 years old and actually saw it in Cinerama.) As an analogy, Hitchcock's "Rope" was an interesting experiment as well, and worth seeing to observe the experiment, but not a great movie either. So I'm looking forward to HTWWW for the commentary and to revisit David Strohmaier's outstanding documentary about the Cinerama process. Based on Ken's fine review, with these expectations, I'm certain I will find my purchase to be money well spent. Thanks, Ken!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I don't agree with your assessments of Rope and How the West Was Won. You under-estimate both films. I don't agree that Cinerama was a gimmick. I saw the restored film projected at the Arclight / Cinerama Dome several times, and it looked like a legitimate use of the cinematic language to me. Cinerama is more than a gimmick: it's a perfectly valid visual storytelling experience. The subject matter of HTWWW is big enough for Cinerama. Just the right size, in fact. Most Hollywood productions could use a lot more of what HTWWW has got in Cinerama.

You are correct in saying that home video does not duplicate the theatrical experience, but that is true of all films.

I wish to modify my statement in post 18: now that the smilebox option is perfected and available, Warner Home Video should retire the standard letterbox from broadcasting and DVD releases. Since the smilebox accurately represents the film, and the standard letterbox does not, there is no longer a reason to continue with the standard letterbox. The DVD package, although very nice, could have been easily reconfigured to accommodate the smilebox version. To re-issue the film in standard letterbox after going through all that trouble to restore it, smilebox it, and remove the dividing lines is a grievous lapse in judgment.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Yes, I have to disagree with you too about the HTWWW and Rope.





Crawdaddy

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

[quote=MikeGale] Remember that Cinerama was a gimmick -- a fascinating gimmick, but a gimmick that didn't catch on. HTWWW was made to showcase this gimmick. As such, HTWWW was an interesting experiment, but was hardly a great movie. QUOTE]

It was Cinerama that ushered in widescreen photography with other less complicated processes such as Todd-AO, CinemaScope, etc. Nobody would surely argue that they were gimmicks -just more practicable examples of achieving a more natural image and which is now part of basic cinematic language.

I too saw HTWWW when orginally released. I don't think it was or is a great film but still a very good one.

One of my most memorable cinematic experiences was seeing it at the Casino Theatre in London to a packed house a day or two after its world premiere. At the end of the train wreck, the entire 1500 or so audience,let out at great sigh of relief and enjoyment in unison. Such was its impact.Not many films that I can recall can claim likewise.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I don't consider Smilebox an extra "feature", like say a documentary, or a commentary track. Smilebox is the proper way for 3 strip Cinerama films to be presented on any home video format. Did we actually believe the studios when they counted "widescreen presentation" as a special feature?
I think Warner bailed on HD-DVD because consumers bailed on HD-DVD, and Warner didn't want to support a format that didn't have consumer support. I don't think blu-ray will take off until the U.S. economy starts growing quickly again. People just don't have disposable income to spend on a new home video format when the cost of housing and petrol (sorry, gas) is so high, and the chance of losing their job is high as well. I don't understand what you mean "trying to accomplish with blu-ray", doesn't it make MORE business sense releasing the Smilebox version on DVD, because the install base of DVD is 10000 times that of blu-ray? Don't you try and release things in a format that people can actually buy and use?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Evidently, Warner thinks differently.

Believe what you want, but I heard differently.

Well, Warner and the rest of the studios are banking that you're wrong and will try to induce further market penetration.

I think I've made myself clear as to what they're trying to accomplish and if I'm wrong then why isn't smilebox on the dvd version?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

In the 80s and 90s i got "extras" like widescreen, digital sound, and commentaries on my LDs. Extras that tape guys didnt get. I paid a pretty penny for all that, and the best picture that could be delivered at that time. Blu-ray is the next step. Enjoy what you have, and feel free to cross over when the time is right for you. But once again, i paid a pretty penny, and i dont mind a perk or two with my Blu-ray.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I consider your LD/VHS comparison to DVD/Blu to be an apples to oranges comparison. Part of the reason those features were available first on LD and then DVD was due to the linear real-time nature of tape vs the random chapter/special feature access of LD and later DVD.

One can defend the studios' decision to withhold special features from DVD in an attempt to drive consumers ot Blu if one wishes. It may or may not pay off for them. But I do not consider the VHS comparison to be valid. One could access a special feature like a trailer, documentary, "making of" doc or commentary instantly on a LD or DVD. On a VHS, it would necessitate running the tape to the end, and would require extra tapes for the features, etc, which basically makes such extra features somewhat futile. And choosing multiple audio streams on VHS was close to impossible. The technology which made "extra features" a possibility on LD existed for DVD as well, though not for VHS.

As to whether it will pay off, i cannot say. I am not certain I am sold on "smilebox", but I would have liked to have seen it. I'm not getting a Blu-ray player for this movie, and am not buying the so-called UE if it is deficient in features; so in my case, this adds up to a "no sale". However, i accept that studios can do what they wish regardless of what I think.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I don't know if this question has been asked or answered elsewhere and, if so, please forgive me. But, does the Blueray version include a non-Smilebox transfer of the film, or is it only Smilebox?

Thanks!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

HTWWW Blu-ray will have a standard letterboxed version of the film as well as the Smilebox version. The Bd apparently contains all of the extras from the SD-DVD two disc set as well.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Aspect Ratio: 2.89:1


The image is going to be very small on a 32 inch or smaller TV screen.

Is this wider than the DVD of Ben-Hur ?

There is a 2 disc set SD release of this film without all the bells and whistles. Mostly just the film.
It is much cheaper than the Ultimate Edition and you get to see the restored film. It would seem that those unhappy that the smilebox version is not included in the Ultimate edition would be happier with this edition of this new dvd release.

http://www.amazon.com/How-West-Was-T...0335120&sr=8-3

The wording says 2 disc. The picture of the DVD says 3 disc.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

For what it is worth ImDB shows Ben-Hur with an aspect ration of 2.76:1, so HTWWW is a bit wider.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

If I might add my tuppence worth . . . a fascinating discussion and typical for a forum of this sort. All about aspect ratios, and whether or not the studio is screwing us, about value for money, about exploiting our obsessive desires, and nothing or hardly anything about HTWWW as a movie, as a piece of entertainment, as a work of art, as a triptych with three directors, as an expression of America in the optimistic Kennedy era etc etc etc.

And on the subject of the Smilebox being unique to BluRay . . . isn't this really just a one-off, a unique set of circumstances, a CURVEball for both consumers and retailer?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

O rly!?
Bad business decision making.

Repeating Warner's company line over and over doesn't mean it makes anymore sense than the first time I heard it.

Discussions of film style and symptomatic criticism are off topic here.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Why did they make that so-called bad business decision?

Also, I have to buy my BRD online like everybody else so I don't know what you mean by repeating Warner's company line.



Crawdaddy

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I'm as guilty as anyone here, but I can imagine how Ken feels now that his review thread has been just about trashed.

Shouldn't this discussion continue elsewhere?

My apologies Ken.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Actually there isn't much left to talk about besides the review now because "it is what it is" and nothing is going to change these releases now.






Crawdaddy

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

3-strip Cinerama had 7 tracks of sound. Five channels behind the screen and the other two the left and right side wall speakers. There was a switch that could send the sixth channel to both side wall speakers and the seventh to the rear speakers.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I was thinking the same thing, but wanted to keep my head down until the shells stopped flying. Perhaps we could start one thread with the DVD paranoid conspiracy theorists pointing to the presence of an outstanding letterboxed presentation and the lack of smilebox as definitive proof that Warner is out to get them and a second thread for the Blu-Ray paranoid conspiracy theorists pointing out how Warner last week released 10 classic westerns in two box sets exclusive to SD DVD as definitive proof that Warner is not supporting them.

Regards,