HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Very strong hints that we'll get several Warner classics in 3D...and they will be Blu-ray exclusives.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Would it be possible for anyone to post a short clip of HTWWW Smilbox in action on youtube or something. I really want to see it in motion!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

The documentary was excellent. That, and the audio commentary, were the main reasons I bought the set but I'm thinking I'm now going to have to take the plunge and get into Blu-ray so that I can see the smilebox version. The picture quality of the excerpts from the Cinerama travelogue-type films was so much better than I expected - I was under the impression that the early Cinerama films were either lost or in appalling condition. I would love to see them all issued in smilebox. The only one I saw was This is Cinerama at the London Casino when it was shown as a reissue in the 1970s on (I think) a 70mm print.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I saw a thing called The Best of Cinerama at the Royalty, Kingsway, which was a sort of Cinerama's Greatest Hits with clips from all the travelogues. Like Douglas R, I was knocked out by the quality of those Smilebox extracts and I want more, please.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I heard a rumor that an original scene from the theatrical version is missing on the new Blu-Ray and DVD release. The scene shows the collapse of a water tower during a buffalo stampede. Can anyone confirm whether this is true?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Just checked my older release ( Buffalo scene was under the chapter called White Lies/ Red War- Chapter 27,, the new scenes in the new release is called Buffalo Herd -Chapter 30,, anyway,,) the scenes match,, frame by frame, it does sway and stay up.. maybe you're thinking of the falling water tower from Mad Mad World ??

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

That is probably the source of the rumor. Mad Mad World was released around the same time as HTWWW so it seems plausible that the similar scene in Mad Mad World was confused with this movie.
Given the excellent job of restoration on these new DVDs and Blu Rays, I found it hard to believe that a scene would be omitted, either inadvertently or deliberately.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

No way! DVDPacific sent me the 3 disc SPECIAL EDITION even though I paid for the 3 disc ULTIMATE COLLECTOR'S EDITION.

Not too bad though, this is the first incorrect order I've received in 4 years...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

The falling water tower can be seen in the souvenir program for "How the West Was Won", and it can be seen lying on the ground after the last buffalo has passed through the camp, but for some reason it wasn't captured on film. I think a mistake was made in the planning of the shot and the Cinerama camera wasn't ready, or something like that.

I remember reading something about that scene long ago. I'll try to track it down.

There's also a falling water tower in "Mad World", but in "How the West Was Won" there were stuntmen jumping out of it as it went over. That's how it was supposed to be, anyway.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I found this on Movie Mistakes.com, but it's a mistake itself:

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Doesn't the water tower fall completely to the ground during the buffalo stampede in the original theatrical release? It's missing in the DVD release.

[That is true it does fall straight to the ground in the theatrical release, but if you bought a copy of the DVD after 2001 they had edited it out because it was similar to the Twin Towers and did not want it to spark any controversy.]

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It never fell to the ground in the theatrical release. I remember seeing it in Cinerama when I was 8 years old, fully expecting it to fall to the ground, and being a little surprised when it didn't.

I can't find the proof of what I wrote before about the camera not being ready, but I do remember seeing it somewhere and it does make sense.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Bill, I read the same thing some years ago, but for the life of me can't remember where.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Thanks, John. I feel better now. My memory does play tricks on me sometimes, more and more often the older I get.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I can't see how the falling of a 20 foot water tower is the same as the Twin Towers from 911 .. My God how many towers and buildings have fallen in theatrical movies?? and besides that, that is absolutley no comparison...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Slightly off-topic: I'm not in favor of editing out anything, anywhere, but I did get a chill the other day while watching "How to Murder Your Wife" on TCM. Jack Lemmon says something like, "Maybe we should find a way to blow up one of those glass office towers: BAR-OOOOOM! Tinkle tinkle tinkle tinkle ..." I immediately thought of the World Trade Center. The line isn't funny anymore.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Here's that image of the water tower going over, from the last page of the souvenir program:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...watertower.jpg

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I'll bet with the complexities and the problems that were outlined in Cinerama Adventure over the shooting difficulties and advent of garnering 1500 Buffalo for the shoot, I can see why the actual fall wasn't captured properly on film for that shot..

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I went back and pulled out my laserdisc copy of HTWWW and there is no water tower falling shot either. I held on the laser because I hated the Turner logo between the overture and main titles.

I like most people do remember the still; it is in the original soundtrack and in the program. A web site dedicated to the film also has the still posted. I guess it is just one of those always thought it was there, but never was.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Confused about this Logo.,, was it like that on the old DVD?? ( don't have the old DVD anymore as It has been handed down to my younger brother..)

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

It was the most startling thing I had ever seen. Right after the great overture ended, they slapped on full screen Turner Logo with that awful Turner fanfare, and then it went into the widescreen (non-anamorphic) main titles. Not only was it on the MGM DVD release, but when Warner’s re-released the DVD twice under its banner they used the same transfer and kept the logo in. I even bought one of the Warner DVD’s hoping they had gotten rid of it.

The Turner Logo showed up before any MGM or Warner movie that he owned during the Laserdisc and early DVD days. Usually it was not as unappreciative as it was with HTWWW DVD since it played before the titles. The laserdisc of HTWWW actually had the Turner Logo before the Overture so that the film moved smoothly into the main titles.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

A word from Down Under. Just received my HTWWW pack of Ultimate Collectors Edition and BluRay Edition. I don't have BluRay player yet or Full HD screen, so the BluRay is 'for the future'. The HTWWW remastering is just sensational. I can only so far sample the Smilebox effect via the Disc 3 Documentary, but it is just sensation upon sensation as far as I am concerned. Not just the image, but the audio is beautiful. The grabs from the other Cinerama films with the orchestrals and choirs is magnificent. Every reason for the full treatment to be given these Cinerama productions as well. From here on I imagine a world where all widescreen movies are 'bent' to fit the TV 16:9 screen. Just what does "enhanced for 16:9" mean? Its always appeared to me that something is chopped off the ends to compromise the 2.35 ratio to 16:9. (Does anyone have any facts on this?) Would love to see some of the Fox musicals (remember CinemaScope 55, / 2.55:1 the original ratio) remastered to BluRay and Smilebox. From here on this should be the Collectors Edition norm, flat image disc and Smilebox disc. For me there was an added little thrill when in the Cinerama Adventure doco there was a still shot of the Sydney Plaza Theatre where I saw all the Cinerama films. I didn't expect to see that, but it was a magnificent theatre, and the whole experience all those years ago is still vivid. Anyway, this new HTWWW mastering is pretty damn close to that original experience. Congratulation to all who put the work into it. KB. Tweed Heads NSW Australia.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

16:9 enhancement or 16:9 anamorphic encoding means that on the disc the image is horizontally squeezed to minimise the letterboxing (black bars) above and below the image. This means more of the resolution of the DVD format (720 X 576 = 414720 pixels for PAL, 720 x 480 = 345600 pixels for NTSC) is devoted to the actual film image, rather than wasted on simply black letterboxing. This is a more efficient way to encode the picture because it effectively increases the resolution of the image so it looks better quality.

The sad thing is, releasing a Smileboxed version on SD-DVD would've made better use of the (relatively) limited resolution of DVD, rather than releasing it in such an extreme 2.89:1 Letterboxed format. Even given 16:9 enhancement, the 2.89:1 ratio on the DVD release would only be using about 284 pixels vertically. The other 200 (approx) are 'wasted' on the black letterboxing bars. I don't have a degree in pure math so I can't figure out how many vertical pixels would be 'saved' by smileboxing, but my guess is it would be about 28800, or nearly 9% of the total resolution of the image.

Non-anamorphic discs (which thankfully are rarely released now) waste pixels on huge letterboxing bars (the wider the aspect ratio, the more pixels are wasted on letterboxing, 2.89:1 is the widest image ever released on home video as far as I know), which decreases the image quality. It also means you have to use the zoom setting on a widescreen monitor, which again reduces the perceived quality. There were only two films shot in CinemaScope 55, The King and I and Carousel. They have both been released correctly formatted on DVD. All other 2.55:1 CinemaScope films were shot on 35mm film without an optical soundtrack, hence the wider than usual aspect ratio.

Smileboxing is only suitable for 3 panel Cinerama films. I don't think it is an appropriate way to show any other widescreen films. They simply weren't intended to be shown on screens with really deep curvature like proper Cinerama screens. Smilebox is simulating the curvature of a proper Cinerama screen (147 degrees). CinemaScope films were never intended to be shown on screens curved that deeply.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

One of the best ways to describe what you are asking about is the Third disc itself.. ''Cinerama Adventure'' is ,, ( thank goodness ) "anamorphic widescreen" .. So about 60% of this 97 minutes documentary is, by itself, 4.3:1 ( archival footage) and we of course have the 'black pillars' on each side.. when played back on a properly setup 16x9 HD screen..,, BUT!!!.,,,, when the 'Film' displays the smilebox video it 'automatically' fills the 16x9 screen to its 'full dimension ' with widescreen 2.89:1 ..
It may sound a bit confusing, but another to describe this is.. 'If the Third disc was NOT' anamorphic the letterbox image would have been 'placed in the center of the screen with four black borders around each side' and the image would have been 'rectangular' in shape and view... Just as the older HTWWW was previous to this version.. the image was rectangular and the only to view it without the extra four borders was to 'zoom in' and that of course make the image seemed squished , if you kept pressing your remote to find a comfortable viewing angle by the time you had found 'wide zoom'.., it still appeared " stretched'' . Yech!!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I asked about this way back at the start of this thread and, putting my purist's hat on, I have to say that one thing I found a little irritating about the new DVD are the pregnant pauses between the episodes, especially the pause between the end of the Overture and the start of the Main Title. In Cinerama presentations it blends seemlessly and without a second's silence, but on the new DVD there is a weird hiatus. It happens at the end of every episode.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

My only complaint about this DVD (apart of course from the lack of a smilebox version) is that Warner Bros did not include the "Making of" documentary which was on the previous release. This included some fascinating location footage and major contributions from stuntman Loren Janes (who is on the commentary track of the new DVD) speaking to camera and showing footage of what went wrong in some cases. I don't see why Warner didn't include it. It means I can't get rid of my old version!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

An open message to George Feltenstein:

Dear George

After reading and listening to various interviews in which you stated that folks were going out and buying BD players simply to watch the Blu-ray exclusive Smilebox version of HTWWW, my first dismissive thoughts were along the lines of 'well, I'm not going to fall for that flim-flam'.

Nope, not me.

You went a step further and suggested that anyone without a Blu-ray player couldn't possibly be a true HT enthusiast and, well, I got kinda angry at that one. How dare you, I recall thinking. Damned cheek.

Then my UCE box arrived and I looked at the beautiful SD transfer, and checked out 'Cinerama Adventure' with the all too brief clips of HTWWW in Smilebox. Holy frijoles, I thought; I'm doomed.

And I went right out, bought a BD player and ordered HTWWW. Again.

Waiting for the disc to arrive, I bought a couple more BD discs, 'Cool Hand Luke' which looks very nice indeed, and 'No Country For Old Men' which is pristine as one would expect. But it wasn't until this morning, when my Blu-ray HTWWW arrived, that I was truly sold on the format.

Flat, in SD, HTWWW looks gorgeous. In Smilebox HD, it raises the hairs on the back of my neck, and genuine tears of joy sting my eyes. I almost cannot believe what I am seeing, the detail, the colour and to top it all a recreation - even in a minor way - of this most thrilling of all thrilling cinematic experiences.

So, George, if the aim of this exercise was to sell BD, then this sucker is here to offer his soul in exchange for more of the same. What's the next project...?

Yours, in penury.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

John,
Welcome to the BR Club, others don't understand what they're missing.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I've just watched HTWWW again, this time with the commentary, and I thought maybe a few words here might be appropriate. To begin with, the guys give their commentary a real Roadshow feel - you're with them for the long haul and their timings, especially during the Overture and Entr'Acte, is very precise. I learned a lot from them and I'd have to say in the not too distinguished roll call of Commentary honor, this is an excellent effort. HOWEVER, it was ultimately disappointing and a bit superficial for my taste. While we learned all we wanted to know about the stars (which most of us knew already) and maybe we learned too much about the music and the folk songs, we were told NOTHING about the movie, what it signified, what it meant in 1962 and how it compares to other westerns. Th commentators were just in their own little Cinerama bubble. OK, there was a word or two about the film's sympathy for the Indians but this social commentary was the exception: nothing about the film's aesthetic, its Remington-esque visuals, its incredible optimism that places it right at the heart of the Kennedy era, its unusual placing of women - especially the Debbie Reynolds character - as the drivers of the narrative etc etc. That lack of critical perspective is a real failing. What we get are insights into HTWWW as a piece of material, a technical freak if you will; what we lack is any kind of insight into HTWWW as a work of art.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Good for you, John. Congratulations on your purchase. This was for me truly the first release to completely and utterly justify my investment. God, now I'm hungry for more.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I can't afford, at this time, to upgrade to Blu-ray, as it would mean buying a new TV. I have a 32" CRT which I'm very happy with, & have no plans to buy a plasma for the next few years (I remain very unimpressed with LCD). As I'd like the smilebox version, I won't be buying this title. Warner can get stuffed, I won't be railroaded.