HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I just got my Blu Ray the other day. Overall I'm pleased with the image although the seems between the panels have definitely NOT been totally eliminated. There are some scenes here or there where they are most definitely visible. It seems to be WB didn't go all the way in their restoration. My guess as I've mentioned earlier is that the 3 panels have deteriorated at different rates which leads to colors being off on different panels. Instead of restoring the color and painting out their differences, they have left them as is and as a result the leftovers can be just as distracting as the original join lines. I'd say overall though that 90% of the film looks great and is definitely the best it's ever looked on home video.

As for which is better, the smile box or letter box, my own personal preference is the letter box. I found the smile box VERY distracting.

Also, since the lines are mainly gone it's easy to see that the "cinerama effect" could easily be shot today with an anamorphic camera and a fisheye lens. It's amazing so much effort and research was put into something that today could more or less be achieved with software if necessary on a home computer.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Based on the Smilebox demonstrations in the documentary, I would happily buy a Smilebox SD HTWWW dvd if WB released it.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

That is correct. 2001 was always meant to be shown on a deeply curved screen "in Cinerama", as a separate end credit indicates. It wasn't true Cinerama, but that title referred to its preferred form of exhibition in Cinerama and Super Cinerama theaters during its initial engagement.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Well, I did "notice" the cropping anyway but I agree it is probably insignificant and omits no essential picture information.
I believe having a transfer that shows all the available image information of the exposed negative can't really hurt.
Sad though that none of the two aspect ratios correctly represents the film's theatrical release ratio. That's a bit like seeing an open matte version of a film the director intended for 1.85:1.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Cinerama was not an exact medium. The size of Cinerama screens, there aspect ratio and degrees of arc (146, 120 and 90 degrees) varied from theatre to theatre.

New York Warner - 67ft by 24 ft = 2.79:1
New York Loew's - 90ft by 33ft = 2.72:1
Milwaukee Palace - 75ft by 25ft = 3:1
Salt Lake City Villa - 96ft by 35ft = 2.74:1
San Francisco Orpheum - 78ft by 28ft = 2.78:1
San Diego Cinerama - 100ft by 36ft - 2.77:1

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I lived briefly in L.A back in 1969 thru 1971.. and I went to the old Cinerama Dome (Arclight Cinemea) to see in Cinerama Krakatoa East of Java .,, But I also saw 2001 at the Pantages Theatre in the summer of 1969 ( not 1968 ) . But for the life of me I can't remember if 2001 , at the pantages was Cinerama or just 70 MM .
I saw 2001 at least 18 times over a three year period,.. and some or a couple of those viewings I saw in Cinerama in Vancouver BC in June of 1968.
Did the Pantages have a Cinerama Screen? Did 2001 play at the Cineramadome (now Arc Light Dome) for over a year???.,
compared to these days when movies come and go within days of each other..

( You know I can remember when films like Ben Hur or Lawrence of Arabia would play for like.... 56 weeks at the same venue.. Astonishing play times wasn't it? ) .

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

2001 didn't play the Pantages, it was at the Pacific's down the street - Pacific's was the former Warners Cinerama theater, and I believe it was shown on a curved screen there, although it's many years since I lived there and my memory may be faulty about the curved screen (although I don't think so). I saw 2001 many times at the Pacific's - a grand experience.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Billy is right, “2001, A Space Odyssey” opened at the Warner Cinerama theater on April 4, 1968 & ran for 80 weeks. During the run, the theater ownership changed hands & was renamed the Hollywood Pacific Theatre, & yes it was shown on a curved screen. Interestingly, this film was originally contracted for 3-panel Cinerama but due to the inherent distortions of the 3 camera process, it was done in the single 70mm format.

I grew up in Southern California & was fortunate enough to have seen most of the Cinerama 3 strip films including HTWWW. Just got my copy of the new DVD set in standard definition & I love it! I don’t have Blu-ray but the Smilebox out takes in the WONDERFUL documentary film “Cinerama Adventure” look very nice. Hopefully we will be able to see this version on one of the high definition movie channels soon.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Yes, after it’s 80 week run at the Warner Cinerama Theater on Hollywood Blvd. “2001, A Space Odyssey” played at the Cinerama Dome on Sunset Blvd. If I’m not mistaken, it had several runs @ ‘The Dome’ during the 1970’s ranging from a few days to several weeks. You mentioned that you remember the astonishing play times of the earlier films & it should be noted that the original “This is Cinerama” run @ the Warner was 133 weeks!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

On every incarnation (theater, television, homevideo) that I have ever seen of HTWWW, I have noticed a black speck in the clouds during Spencer Tracy's opening narration. It would appear to me that it is something that would be easy to correct since it is black against white, and I am surprised that it has never been removed. If they can purge the panel lines, why can't they eliminate the speck?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

That's an outtake from THIS IS CINERAMA. filmed 10 years before HTWWW was made. You bring up an interesting point -- how far should the restoration work go and where should it stop? I personally like the choice to have left those specks in the picture.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

As has been well documented, the dirt is on the camera lens. And from what I've read, the decision was made to leave it in since it's always been part of the film and the film's history.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Billy & Gerardo are correct, except it was bugs on the windshield, not the lens. Here is an interesting explanation that I saw on the ‘Widescreen Museum' web-site that goes into further detail. Enjoy!

While this footage was used as the opening shot in HTWWW, it was actually an out-take from This is Cinerama. Visible in the picture are a number of "bug splats". Bugs were a problem for pilot Paul Mantz, until he determined that bugs only fly to a maximum altitude of a few hundred feet. To prevent spoiling of any further footage by those pesky bugs he devised a typical Paul Mantz fix. A large sheet of butcher paper was taped over the nose of The Smasher, his converted B-25. After he had achieved an altitude that was bug free he would signal an assistant to lean out a front window and tear the paper loose. No more bug splats. Mantz's flying sequences in This Is Cinerama are bug free, but apparently the producers of How The West Was Won were unconcerned that their film began with the nasty things smeared all over the screen. Despite the bugs, it is a beautiful, awe inspiring scene.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I'm a part-time entomologist. Can anyone tell me what species they were?

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Thanks, Billy, Gerardo, & Gary! That "speck" has been driving me crazy for the last 45 years and until this morning, it threatened to drive me crazy for the next 45 years. Since the windshield is between the clouds and the camera, there could be no digital remedy.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Adrian Adrian ... let's keep religion out of the discussion!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

For anyone interested in converting the Letterboxed DVD version to Smilebox, it can be done using AviSynth and V.C. Mohan's DeBarrel filter. This is the best script so far, but I need to do more experimentation, for example to take into account that the Smileboxed blu-ray is slightly cropped on the sides to recreate the precise Cinerama aperture:


Of course I won't get into specifics of how to do this because I don't want to fall afoul of the forum's policies regarding copyright infringement. (Not that backing up a DVD counts as copyright infringement where I live)

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

....I'll wait to buy the BD...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Groan; and me a techno-luddite.

My R1 HTWWW UCE arrived this morning, and yes, it looks luvverly, and no I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about shelling out $5 over the cost of the normal SE (as it was then) for what amounts to a few paper extras.

Up comes the overture and I'm transported right back (to when I first played my Geoff Love and his Orchestra 'Big Movie Themes' LP on the Music for Pleasure label ). Up comes the film and, well, it looks so damned small. This humongously wide film seems actually diminished as it's played on my 52" TV; it looks superb mind, but it's so....small.

In goes the extras disc and up comes 'Cinerama Adventure' and the clips of Cinerama films in the 'Smilebox' process. Wow! And, flippin' 'eck. And, and, and...well, you can't wipe the smile off my face - that's how I remember seeing HTWWW at Bradford, it looks suddenly huuuuuuuge and gorgeous and involving.

Warners George Feltenstein said people were trotting out to buy Blu-ray players just to see HTWWW in 'Smilebox'. Here goes another sucker George...

Groan...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I don't have Blu-ray, & am not going to buy this until Warner release it on DVD in Smilebox.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I ran mine the other night on a slightly smaller screen and it does indeed look smallbox. Mrs Turner couldn't watch it, even when the ratio was popped out a bit to roughly 2.35. It took a while but then I realised . . . there really isn't a single close-up in the entire picture, something you are not really aware of when viewing it in Cinerama. So James Stewart and Carroll Baker's heads are about the size of ping-pong balls (John Wayne's head was always bigger). I did find it a bit of a trial, and a little dark (?), and instead just wallowed in the music and the incredible momentum of the thing. I really bought this for Cinerama Adventure and that was every bit as good as I remembered . . . one of those rare docus that go the extra mile. And because of the docu I shall buy the Blu Ray edition, and get the necessary kit, because on my screen the Smilebox version just looks bigger!

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Finally the UCE-Boxset arrived here today - usually it takes about ten to fourteen days for an Amazon shipment to reach Germany, so I'm always a bit behind current events. I wouldn't have bought the UCE at all if it wasn't for the amazing preorder price, and I don't regret getting the big boxset for just $4 more than the regular 3-disc-set, because it's simply gorgeous. The box is very sturdy and there are three seperate folders: one holds the three discs, the second one has the reproductions of the 36-page Cinerama souvenir book and the 20-page "exhibitor's campaign book" and the last one has the photo cards. Unfortunately there were only five colour photos and seven black-and-white cards (with three of them exactly the same) in my set - maybe it's just an minor mixup, but did anyone get more of these?

I've only skipped through the movie, but it looks absolutely fantastic. It's one of the best-looking discs I've seen in a long time - the details are absolutely incredible, and the picture looks very natural and not oversharpened at all. There's even a small hint of film grain visible sometimes (somewhat more in the scenes with rear projection) and the picture is completely stable. The cinerama join lines are mostly invisible and only show up sometimes against blue skies. I've noticed several instances where the panels were not perfectly fitted together and objects traveling between panels sometimes still "bump" a bit, but this only seems to happen very occasionally. In comparison with the old transfers Warner did an excellent job - I'd say the huge problems of the earlier transfers have been about 99,9% eliminated!

The bonus materials seem a bit thin at first: just a commentary and a documentary, which isn't even primarily about the movie itsself? Of course a real making-of wouldn't have hurt, maybe a 30-45 minute piece from Leva Filmworks would have been nice, but the commentary and the cinerama docu are alone worth the price of the DVD. Warner has done this combination of extras lots of times before - a great commentary plus an existing documentary, which is nothing to complain about.

It's of course a bit disappointing that the smilebox-version is not on the UCE, but considering the fantastic quality of the normal version and the wonderful boxset, it's not such a big deal - at least for me, because I don't have a Blu-Ray-player and won't be getting one for some years. But the Smilebox-version could have fitted on the current boxset: disc 1 has 4.67 GB, disc 2 5.72 GB and disc 3 just 4.17 GB. With a minimal lowering of the bitrate, there would have been enough room on disc one and three. Of course it wasn't just a technical decision to leave the smilebox off the dvd, but nevertheless - it would have worked.

The smilebox-version would have been great on sd-dvd, because the 2.89.1-ratio is so extremely small... the biggest screen I've got here is a 28" 4:3 sony tube, so I can't imagine why some with a 52"-screen is complaining about the size of the frame! :-). Maybe I'll try Simon's suggestion and make a "homemade" smilebox-edition, but I'm not sure if it's really going to work - there seems to be more to the process than a simple barrel distortion...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

-- The Photo Cards I received in my UCE region 1 release are 10 B/W and 10 Colour ..

--The documentary Cinerama Adventure is not only the history of the Cinerama process, ( and A good documentary to boot)..,, But reading that you just skimmed over., If you watch the whole 96 min feature you'll see that it is built around the finale of the Feature and that is the lead up to and including HTWWW .. Also in the commentary there is quite a bit of behind the scenes narrative as well.

-- The bit rate and total GB of each disc could have been done what you suggested, for an extra disc., To do it properly would have required 5 discs, . but to have Disc One complete at the 'Intermission' mark is Perfect for me. Even the commentary remarked how important it was for this Intermission break of 15 to 20 min to gave the Film Projectionists 'a small window' to set up the next 4 reels of film and to bring in Act II .

Will WB ever bring out a smile box SD.. sure maybe on the 60th Anniversary..

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Then I got shortchanged. Well, it doesn't bother me much, and getting the set exchanged would be too much of a bother for a few photocards.

Yes, of course the documentary and the commentary do the job very well. It's just that Warner tends to avoid producing new documentaries for their special-editions sometimes... with HTWWW, I agree that it wasn't necessary. I just thought about the Ben-Hur boxset and the documentary that they did in addition to the old one.

It would have been possible to fit the first part of the smilebox-version on disc one and the second part on disc two, maybe with slightly reduced bitrates. The bitrate on the discs hovers around 8 mbit/s, which is very generous, but almost too much for an image so heavy letterboxed. Pull it down to 6 mbit/s, lose the french soundtrack and put just one 5.1-track on the smilebox, and it would have been possible. Or add a fourth disc and use the remaining space of disc three for the first part of the smilebox-version. I was astonished how much room is still available on the three dvds.

I'm not going to buy it again - they had their chance! :-). Actually the Blu would be on my list of BD's I'd buy first if I ever upgrade to HD. But the DVD still looks absolutely amazing...

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

From DVD Savant:


Edited to add links.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Thanks for the tip. I will bookmark this website.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

Sorry, I don't see the link for "3-D Feltenstein"

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

As one of the few companies to keep the classics alive, I applaud Warner for this first class release...in all three packagings. It was wonderful of them to offer the standard "barebones" dvd set at such a low price (mine was 19 bucks)....I picked that up this week, and will upgrade to the Blu-ray when I have a player for it.
CINERAMA ADVENTURE was a thrill to watch....and the commentary track on HTWWW was one of the more entertaining I've heard.

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I watched the documentary as well.., It was great.. But a question arose though for me.,: With the advent of Cinerama and then Cinemascope, then on to Panavision and then of course Ultra Panavision etc etc.. I wonder why 'Big Screen' films (during this era in the mid fifties) such as "Giant and The Ten Commandments" didn't go for the BIG screen treatment as well... ??

Re: HTF DVD REVIEW: How the West Was Won: Ultimate Collector's Edition

I don´t know about GIANT but, for awhile, De Mile researched and explored the possibility of shooting THE TEN COMMANDMENTS in either CinemaScope or Todd AO, but ultimately chose Vistavision, which Paramount was hawking at the time against its competitors. Some of the supposed advantages of Vistavision were that the films could be printed at several different ratios from 1.66 to 2:1 and that it was "taller" than CinemaScope, at least acording to Paramount´s publicity department.

If you ever saw THE TEN COMMANDMENTS in its 2.20:1 scanned 70mm version in the 80´s, you´d know it was probably not meant to be shown at any AR but 1.85:1.