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The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

#1
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8/19/08 at 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Digital Bits
And here's something very interesting: Warner is also releasing The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD (SRP $20.97) and Blu-ray Disc (SRP $34.99) on 10/28. Each will include a set of 4 3-D glasses, and each will also include the original 2-D version as well. Extras will include the You Look Familiar: The Many Polar Faces of Tom Hanks featurette, 5 A Genuine Ticket to Ride featurettes, the True Inspirations featurette on author Chris Van Allsburg, 5 Flurry of Effects motion-capture featurettes, the Snow Angels: Moviemakers' Christmas Memories featurette, Josh Groban's Believe music video and a behind-the-scenes featurette on the making of the video, the Smokey and Steamer song not seen in theaters and the film's theatrical trailer. In short, it sounds like most (if not all) of what was on the previous DVD and Blu-ray editions will be included.
Wonder if the 3D is in the old-fashioned "anaglyph" red/blue process or full-color 3-D?

Paul
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#2
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8/19/08 at 1:25pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hillenbrand
Wonder if the 3D is in the old-fashioned "anaglyph" red/blue process or full-color 3-D?

Paul

Whenever the glasses are included it's anaglyph. They would never have 4 field-sequential glasses in each dvd box.

Roland Lataille
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#3
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8/19/08 at 5:30pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

I've never known 3D on video to work well using the red-blue glasses.
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8/19/08 at 5:44pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR
I've never known 3D on video to work well using the red-blue glasses.
Not only is it headache-inducing with colors being skewed, but it's impossible to get perfect cancellation due to the color controls on your TV not perfectly matching the filters. The few times I've seen anaglyphic 3D, I never experienced a good "lock" on the 3D effect.
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#5
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8/19/08 at 7:20pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

What's frustrating is that the BD format has the bandwith to store two alternate-eye 1080p24 video streams for REAL 3-D... but the BD group won't act to get the spec into the format. IMO, it would be an awesome optional spec... like profile 2.5 or something.

-dave
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#6
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8/20/08 at 5:49am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
What's frustrating is that the BD format has the bandwith to store two alternate-eye 1080p24 video streams for REAL 3-D... but the BD group won't act to get the spec into the format. IMO, it would be an awesome optional spec... like profile 2.5 or something.


Actually, TDVision has been proposing such a format for Blu, and is trying to push Sony to include it in one of their PS3 updates. ...We shall see...
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#7
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8/20/08 at 10:54am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
What's frustrating is that the BD format has the bandwith to store two alternate-eye 1080p24 video streams for REAL 3-D... but the BD group won't act to get the spec into the format. IMO, it would be an awesome optional spec... like profile 2.5 or something.

-dave
I don't suspect we'll see Real D in home systems until consumer home entertainment manufacturers figure out how to produce a 144 Hz display without breaking the bank. In addition, for direct-view displays (LCD, plasma), they'll have to develop 144Hz LCD shutter glasses. Anything less would be a lesser approximation and unsatisfactory.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#8
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8/20/08 at 11:30am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
I don't suspect we'll see Real D in home systems until consumer home entertainment manufacturers figure out how to produce a 144 Hz display without breaking the bank. In addition, for direct-view displays (LCD, plasma), they'll have to develop 144Hz LCD shutter glasses. Anything less would be a lesser approximation and unsatisfactory.

I saw a demo of 3-D on a Mitsubishi 73 inch rear projection 120 HZ tv and it looked fantastic. No color problems that you have with anaglyph and no flicker like the current 60hz field-sequential systems. You would need a Blu-Ray player to be able to put out a 120 HZ and a system to do the field-sequential signal in 120 HZ.

Roland Lataille
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#9
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8/20/08 at 7:58pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
I don't suspect we'll see Real D in home systems until consumer home entertainment manufacturers figure out how to produce a 144 Hz display without breaking the bank. In addition, for direct-view displays (LCD, plasma), they'll have to develop 144Hz LCD shutter glasses. Anything less would be a lesser approximation and unsatisfactory.

Once you get the feature in the spec it's up to the hardware manufacturers to decide how to deliver it.

A 3-D Blu-ray player could matrix the two alternate eyes into a 1080p48 progressive signal (no "fields" here... just full frames) or 1080p60 or 1080p120 etc... and then the TV could sync with shudder glasses.

OR

you could output dual HDMI to two separate projectors using poloraized light filters projecting onto the same screen... like at IMAX. Considering that you can get a 1080p projector for $2k these days, that's not an impossible scenario. And any serious 3-D buff would KILL to be able to watch "real" 3-D on the big-screen like this.

Of course, you could use LCD glasses with front projection too. No reason why a projector can't run at 120 Hz either.
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#10
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8/20/08 at 8:40pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

But why compromise with 120 Hz? Real D is designed to run in one projector with alternating frames running through clockwise and counterclockwise polarised filters. Each frame for each eye is displayed 3 times (72 Hz), which doubled is 144 Hz, in order to reduce filcker to near imperceptible levels. When this technology is affordable for home use is when 3-D will be a reality on the home set.While I'm aware that there are competing systems, they all run on pretty much the same principles, and as I said before, I'd rather wait and see Real D @ home than settle for a lesser approximation.

Frankly, I was blown away by Real D, even moreso than IMAX 3-D.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#11
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8/20/08 at 9:25pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen_J_H
But why compromise with 120 Hz? Real D is designed to run in one projector with alternating frames running through clockwise and counterclockwise polarised filters. Each frame for each eye is displayed 3 times (72 Hz), which doubled is 144 Hz, in order to reduce filcker to near imperceptible levels. When this technology is affordable for home use is when 3-D will be a reality on the home set.While I'm aware that there are competing systems, they all run on pretty much the same principles, and as I said before, I'd rather wait and see Real D @ home than settle for a lesser approximation.

Frankly, I was blown away by Real D, even moreso than IMAX 3-D.

I wouldn't call 120hz a true compromise when it's compared to 144hz. Check it out yourself first, as it's double what field-sequential 3-D can do at NTSC's standard 60hz rate. In the late 1990's I ran frame sequential 3-D on my computer, and could vary the refresh rate. At 85hz, the flicker was basicly gone, and at 100hz, a totally white screen showed no perceivable flicker. 120hz (unlike 144hz) also works nicely for both 24fps film sources and for 60hz sources.

The Consumer Electronics Association as well as SMPTE have recently set up task force groups aimed at determining optimal 3-D standards for 3-D video, as there are currently a number of ways to encode 3-D video, with anaglyph providing the lowest quality. Anaglyphic (red/blue) 3-D video keeps returning simply because if you provide some cheap-o 3-D glasses, it's then "3-D ready" right out of the box, even with it's limitations. But if a unified stereoscopic encoding standard can be agreed upon, it will help things along greatly.
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#12
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8/20/08 at 10:43pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
But why compromise with 120 Hz? Real D is designed to run in one projector with alternating frames running through clockwise and counterclockwise polarised filters. Each frame for each eye is displayed 3 times (72 Hz), which doubled is 144 Hz, in order to reduce filcker to near imperceptible levels. When this technology is affordable for home use is when 3-D will be a reality on the home set

How the hardware outputs the signal is up to the hardware and display.

You can do anything you want with the signal. 144Hz... go for it.

What matters is getting the stereoscopic video signal ON THE DISC in native L/R 1080p24 (2 channel). Then, the palyer can matrix that into 1080p48, 1080p144, or dual HDMI each running a single 1080p24 channel for dual-projection.

GET IT ON THE DISC. That's all that matters now, and Blu-ray has the bandwidth for it. Then, as displays evolve, the hardware can output it to match.
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#13
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8/21/08 at 9:52am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
GET IT ON THE DISC. That's all that matters now, and Blu-ray has the bandwidth for it. Then, as displays evolve, the hardware can output it to match.
Not a bad idea, so long as the special features maniacs don't kick up a stink in the following manner: "Why the hell do I need a separate 3-D stream if I'm never gonna watch 3-D?"

Don't say it won't happen, because it WILL.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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8/21/08 at 10:32am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet
.........you could output dual HDMI to two separate projectors using poloraized light filters projecting onto the same screen... like at IMAX. Considering that you can get a 1080p projector for $2k these days, that's not an impossible scenario. And any serious 3-D buff would KILL to be able to watch "real" 3-D on the big-screen like this.

Let's dream a little!

Brainstorm party anyone?

Full-color IMAX 3-D picture quality with one-projector having a dual polarized lense system, taking advantage of one bulb for equal light output.

This would take advantage of current space availability, give it an efficient energy consumption value while adding a factory calibrated synchronization system, making it easy for dual frame alignment, a must for those not technically inclined.

Paul
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#15
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8/21/08 at 2:02pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

That's what Real D is: one projector, displaying alternating eye frames through clockwise and counterclockwise polarised filters at high speed to reduce flicker.

\"My opinion is that (a) anyone who actually works in a video store and does not understand letterboxing has given up on life, and (b) any customer who prefers to have the sides of a movie hacked off should not be licensed to operate a video player.\"-- Roger Ebert

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#16
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8/21/08 at 2:04pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by EETimes
...........

Theoretically, the Blu-Ray group could take one of two broad approaches to stereo 3-D, said Parsons. It could decide to just pass through to HDMI ports any 3-D data on a disk letting the TV render it, or it could render the 3-D information locally which would require a significant addition to the Blu-Ray specification.

If the group opts for the later approach it will need to define a standard format. In either case, the group wants to make sure any 3-D approach is compatible with its existing specification for 2-D content, Parsons said.

Many see Blu-Ray as the likely first vehicle to deliver stereo 3-D movies to the home. That's because the separate images for right and left eyes in stereo 3-D typically require significantly more bandwidth than 2-D images, creating trouble for broadcast delivery.

.................
Source: EETimes
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#17
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8/21/08 at 4:42pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

BD allows for full 1080p of the secondary video channel.

That's all you need, other than a spec for how players should output that stream (second HDMI and/or matrixed into the same HDMI signal as the primary for alternating-eye).

That's just firmware updates. Get a player with the processing power for full 1080p resolution with the secondary (PIP) video stream.

That's 100% compatible with all 2-D systems, as if you don't choose to watch the secondary video stream, you just get the primary stream without any problem.

In other words, any 3-D BD using secondar video stream approach would be 100% backawards compatible with all 2-D players.
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#18
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8/21/08 at 4:44pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Nearly 20 years ago now, the Japanese first began working with 3D systems using the then-new Hi-Vision video equipment. Quite a variety of different systems were developed, including field-sequential (remarkably acceptable, since each field had more resolution than an NTSC frame) and parallel. From what I can tell, one of the more commonly-adopted approaches, to the extent that it was actually installed in venues across Japan and the USA (for entertainment & other purposes) was to have each eye's program on a separate videodisc (typically the uncompressed format, not the consumer MUSE disc with its longer playing time) & feed two projectors from two interlocked & synchronized videodisc projectors — remembering that the timecode embedded in the videodisc allows for lining up the frames properly in time.

Obviously, this isn't a consumer-friendly solution, but it's high time that a standard method for handling 3D high definition content is agreed upon. The old VHD (Japanese vinyl videodisc, not to be confused with RCA's CED) had the capability, back in the early 1980s, to output field-sequential 3D and triggering pulses for shutter-type glasses, and due to unique features of the standard, the same discs could be played back in ordinary 2D ; running time of the 3D-encoded discs was half that of standard movie discs.

If Blu-Ray can store two simultaneous image streams, there's no obvious objection in my mind to simply putting two HDMI ports on the back of the player & specifying the capability to put both streams out at once. Then the disc standard wouldn't be tied down to any particular implementation, and the two-projector method could be done practically out of the box, although if you wanted field- or frame-sequential you would need some kind of outboard processor to generate the alternating sequence & trigger pulses.


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#19
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8/21/08 at 7:01pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherDAC

If Blu-Ray can store two simultaneous image streams, there's no obvious objection in my mind to simply putting two HDMI ports on the back of the player & specifying the capability to put both streams out at once. Then the disc standard wouldn't be tied down to any particular implementation, and the two-projector method could be done practically out of the box, although if you wanted field- or frame-sequential you would need some kind of outboard processor to generate the alternating sequence & trigger pulses.

But this method requires the use of projectors, leaving the vast majority of consumers out in the cold.

Doug
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#20
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8/21/08 at 7:22pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

But Doug,

any player manufacturer could then offer a firmware update to allow the user to optionally matrix the two signals together ala "alternating frames" for LCD glasses with any display of any type.

Dual HDMI output just leaves every option on the table (you can't add a second HDMI output with a firmware update, you need that hardware solution on the physical machine). No one is left out.

Quote:
although if you wanted field- or frame-sequential you would need some kind of outboard processor to generate the alternating sequence & trigger pulses.

Doug,

that frame-sequential (better phrase than "field" sequential when we're talking about 1080p) will work on ANY display of any kind. Not just projectors. You just need the synchronized LCD glasses.
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#21
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8/22/08 at 3:47am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

I'm STILL waiting to see what those "3-D Ready" stickers on DLP TVs mean. Putting out anything in the red/blue format right now is a huge step backwards.

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#22
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9/8/08 at 2:56pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

CEDIA Day 3: The Return of 3D
Quote:
A 3D technology that doesn't require glasses is demoed behind closed doors at CEDIA. And there's talk Blu-ray wants a piece of the 3D pie.
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#23
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9/9/08 at 9:16pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

ummm:
Newegg.com - iZ3D H220Z1 Black 22" 5ms Widescreen 3D Gaming LCD Monitor 250 cd/m2 700:1 - LCD Monitors
^u can buy this now. all u need is BD spec. and a movie to showcase this. i recommend Beowulf as an example =D. saw that on IMAX 3-D and it rocked.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.

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#24
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9/10/08 at 3:56am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

"A 3-D technology that doesn't require glasses"? Why does this remind me of the color television broadcasting experiments from the 1960s that didn't require a color TV set to watch? (Yes, you can produce the sensation of color with monochrome television or film, but the effect is not completely satisfactory, and varies from person to person — some people cannot see it at all, although colorblind people often can.)


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#25
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10/29/08 at 10:53am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Its 10/29 and no reviews?

Roland Lataille
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#26
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10/30/08 at 10:32am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Well the 3-D effect did NOT work well for me at all. I'm running an Optoma HD70 720p DLP projector via PS3 HDMI to a 106" screen, which i sit about 10 feet from.

I don't know if it's the screen size or the glasses, but everything had a red/blue shimmer to it. The glasses seemed waaay too small, not in that they didnt fit, but the actual size of the lenses seemed tiny and I could see the cardboard frames around the lenses while wearing them, and it didn't feel like the red/blue lenses "merged" into a single field of view while wearing them.

The result was terrible and I couldn't watch more than 5 minutes before getting eye strain. I've seen many 3-D movies in theater/IMAX without this problem, so I don't think it's just my eyes having a problem.

Thank goodness the 2-D version is included on the disc.

-Jeff Cooper

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#27
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10/30/08 at 12:55pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Cooper
Well the 3-D effect did NOT work well for me at all. I'm running an Optoma HD70 720p DLP projector via PS3 HDMI to a 106" screen, which i sit about 10 feet from.

I don't know if it's the screen size or the glasses, but everything had a red/blue shimmer to it. The glasses seemed waaay too small, not in that they didnt fit, but the actual size of the lenses seemed tiny and I could see the cardboard frames around the lenses while wearing them, and it didn't feel like the red/blue lenses "merged" into a single field of view while wearing them.

The result was terrible and I couldn't watch more than 5 minutes before getting eye strain. I've seen many 3-D movies in theater/IMAX without this problem, so I don't think it's just my eyes having a problem.

Thank goodness the 2-D version is included on the disc.

We have had mixed reviews for the other two Blu-ray 3-D films - Hannah Montana and Journey to the Center of the Earth. Some hate the 3-D and others say it is fantastic - well, for Journey to the Center of the Earth. Journey uses the green/red instead of the red/blue glasses so, maybe that has something to do with it.

Roland Lataille
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#28
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10/31/08 at 9:15pm
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

I found that the POLAR EXPRESS Blu-ray 3-D experience was very much less satisfying than that of JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH. The glasses are not compatible. For one movie, the red lens is for the left eye, for the other, the right eye. POLAR EXPRESS required a HUGE amount of screwing with contrast, brightness, and tint levels before it even began to tone down the red/blue image split. About 20% of the shots looked quite superlative, but the rest ran from mediocre to outright unwatchable. 100 minutes of this is hard to take... plus, of course, the color is drained right out of it. While the later is true of JOURNEY also, the 3-D is exponentially better than that of EXPRESS. There are only a few completely terrible shots, and some (blowing the dandelion seeds toward the audience) are quite extraordinary. The rest is very acceptable. If the studios can give us more 3-D of this quality, I would buy them, even if anaglyph, at least until I can replace them with sequential copies once I have the needed equipment.
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#29
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11/3/08 at 8:42am
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Re: The Polar Express Presented in 3-D on both DVD and Blu-ray Disc on 10/28

polar express can be enjoyed with or without 3D just like beowulf, zemeckis in both cases. journey is a film that is not as enjoyable without 3-D. it's a film that almost REQUIRES 3-D =P. otherwise, it's pretty dull.

i wish polarized technology was built into BD spec or upgraded (profile 3.0?). i've seen most of the real3D polarized movies and they retain the color and clarity of all of the films.

to the edge of eternity and depth of infinity, stupidity knows no bound.

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