More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Why is Toshiba not interested in blu-ray? Blu-ray won only because Sony paid off more studios than Toshiba. Sony had to give away blu-ray players as premiums to get sales up. Toshiba came to the conclusion that the public was not interested in hd media. A number of surveys indicate that people are satisfied with dvd. This is just a extension of upconverting dvd players. Upconverting dvd players started around $125 when they first came out.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Blu-ray discs are not $30. Even the most expensive ones are $28. DVDs are not $15. They are are about $5 less than Blu.

Example: (Amazon)

Iron Man Blue Ray (Two-Disc Special Collectors' Edition) = $27.95
Iron Man DVD (Two-Disc Special Collectors' Edition) = $22.99

This is the typical pricing trends. How is this "Twice" the price for Blu-Ray?

Very soon a Blu-Ray player will be able to be purchased for $199. This fancy edge enhancing SD-DVD player of toshiba's is $149.

Isn't it worth $50 extra to get a blu-ray player?

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I guess "TWICE as good" is kinda relative (in practice anyway). In my experience so far, the PQ leap from a good quality DVD to a good quality BD viewed on a >=50" 16x9 display is very much comparable to the PQ leap from a "good" quality VHS tape to a good quality DVD viewed on a 32" 4x3 TV.

The key is that HDM let's you view a substantially larger picture than DVD w/out the apparent softness (and lack of details) of blowing up the image significantly impacting your experience. That plus you do get various other PQ improvements like higher color fidelity.

Of course, if your display setup (including viewing distance) for DVDs does not at all seem soft or lacking in details (or show a good deal of issues like compression artifacts and/or upconversion artifacts), then you'll obviously see a lot less benefit than someone else w/ a setup that reveals the various relative weaknesses of DVD more, eg. bigger screen, shorter viewing distance, etc.

_Man_

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Most people buy movies at local retail shops, like BB, CC and WallyMart, not from Amazon like very smart shoppers like us around these boards do (with lots of "free" time to do comparison shopping and online searches).

As we all know retail prices vary all over the map, and your regular shoppers --the ones Blu Ray is trying to entice away from SD-DVD now – check for price deals on your regular Sunday's fliers, not at dvdpricesearch.com.

Doing a quick comparison pricing using this Sunday’s Best Buy flier offers, a regular Joe looking to jump into Blu ray this week will find prices like these...

Home of the Brave- DVD -14.99--- BR---24.99 on sale
Crank-DVD--6.99 (prob barebone)--BR---24.99 on sale
3:10 Yuma--DVD 19.99 ------------BR---24.99 on sale
Beuwulf--DVD 14.99 -------------- BR--24.99 on sale

Gone baby gone--DVD 9.99----------BR--29.99
Cron. Narnia------DVD--9.99--------BR---29.99
Pirates of the C.-world's end - DVD 9.99--BR--29.99
National Treasure-DVD--9.99------- ---BR-29.99
Reigh of Fire--DVD------9.99 ----------BR-19.99 on sale
Underworld---DVD ------9.99----------BR --19.99 on sale
Scary Movie-DVD-------9.99-----------BR--19.99 on sale

Other titles differ only by 5 dollars but that's because the DVD is not on sale and the Blu ray is.



Let me know when that happens for 2.0 players, and even then, if the price of software doesn't drop to DVD levels, Blu Ray is in for a Bumpy ride.....as you can see already.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Ah, the good-old "price debate".. And the old anti-BD forces are also back.


There´s always PS3.. Great upscaling. I´m not really familiar with the other players (based on the reports, BD50 is a bit lacking vs PS3 - when it comes to upscaling)..

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Why are you comparing the Edge Enhancing player with a Profile 2.0 BR player?

I am saying that if someone that was willing to buy the toshiba, could pay a little more and get a BR player. Sure, not a top of the line BR player, but at least one that can play BR discs.

I guess this is all moot. If someone likes watching thier SD-DVDs with even more edge enhancement, they probably wont appreciate the HD picture from a Blu-ray disc anyway.

This new player reminds me of those large Magnifying lenses they used to sell to put in front of your small tv to give you a "Big screen TV". LOL

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

In some ways, this player could be the last DVD-player that reaches to real "headlines". I still doubt, that it´s making any real difference to anything.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I suspect that these new Toshiba machines will be discounted dramatically over the up coming holidays and retail for less than $99. Just a guess.
I like Toshiba and would have no hesitation what-so-ever in buying any of their products.
This new player must upconvert SD DVD discs "better" than the HD DVD players that preceded it, or why release this product in the first place???

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I´m afraid the "business side" doesn´t really work like that. Before any official (and non-biased) reviews/tests/etc, this player is like any other out there with fancy marketing slogans and new "technical terms" (this time it´s "XDE - eXtended Detail Enhancement"). So, I guess we find out when the first reviews are available. Until then, NOTHING is "better".

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Is is not time to let go Francis? Whining is never attractive. And if you continue to choose to whine, at least post something more factual than Sony paying off studios (something that I think no one can determine one way or the other).

And just suppose that Sony and Blu-Ray are evil incarnate--it makes not difference. The race is over. There is no court of appeals that will bring back HD DVD.

Time to let go.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

J6P doesn't really know what edge enhancement is. If they can see a cleaner more detailed picture with the new toshiba players or any other upconverting player then why would they want to spend the money for a BR player that doesn't even allow them to utilize all the features of the disc? Biggest blunder the Blu-ray ever did was the profiles.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I'm not , I was responding to the previous poster.

I personally prefer to buy a 2.0 player when they come down in price, as I'd hate to invest now in gear that has been already replaced with something better, I could be wrong but Blu players are going to need lots of upgrades in the future, and burning ISO upgrade CDRs is a PITA and waste of my time, especially since I'm already setup with a wired Home CAT-5 Network.



Hey, if price is not a problem for you, more power to you..I'm all in favor of personal wealth...

But given the price history of the old HD-DVDs players and sofware deals we had before, I'd be very irritating for me to invest in anything Blu at this times and at these current prices...But that's just me...

By the way I'm not part of the Anti-BD forces, just anti-BS...

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Ah, you´re right. "Anti-BD" is "BS".

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

As far as the technology goes, what it sounds like is that it was planned to be incorporated into the next generation HD-DVD players (assuming that the format would win) and rather than bagging the technology, Toshiba decided to utilize it in the only thing they are producing which is SD-DVD.

But I too see a problem with the demographic of this player - The people that could possibly be interested in this player are as follows:

1) J6P's who can't afford getting into Blu-Ray, but have just purchased an HD TV and may think that this will be a great/cheaper alternative to Blu-Ray.
-The problem here is that most J6P's probably already have a DVD player and after buying a new TV, they (most likely) can't afford to replace their current player. The only possible solution would be if this was their first DVD player. But even if it was, the salesman would still have to really sell his ass off to convince them to spend the money on this player when it's easier to get them to invest in Blu-Ray.

2) People (kind of like myself) who aren't ready to jump into Blu-Ray just yet and are currently happy with SD-DVD.
-The problem here (like myself), is that I am already happy with SD-DVD, so why would I want to spend more money on a player (even if it can make my DVD's looks a little better) when I'm already happy with what I have? And most J6P's, who really don't care about quality, will also not want to spend money on a player when they are already happy with the SD-DVD player they own. I mean, why wouldn't they (or I) want to save the money and wait for a Blu-Ray player?

3) People who are anti-BD and will be willing to invest in any technology that upconverts SD to HD without investing in Blu-Ray.
-This makes sense because I believe that Toshiba knows that there are HD-DVD player owners who might be bitter about the dead format and they are trying to capitalize on this anger by trying to develop something that can draw sales away from Blu-Ray.

No matter how you slice it, this player is for people who don't want to buy (or can't afford) Blu-Ray. Again, my problem with that demographic is; if you can't afford Blu-Ray, then why would you want to spend more money on another DVD player when you already have one? It just sounds like such a hard sell for any salesman.

EDIT: I should also add;
4) People who want better upconversion of their SD-DVD's and can afford to add this player into their current setup.
-Granted, these types (that have the money) probably own Blu-Ray and aren't exactly the largest target audience.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Has anyone done an objective review of this player yet? Friday's USA TODAY had a big full-page ad, so I assume it is now available. I would love to hear if it actually delivers the goods.

Mark

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

The way I see:

1) J6P's who can't afford getting into Blu-Ray, but have just purchased an HDTV and may think that this will be a great/cheaper alternative to Blu-Ray. Since most upconverting players are easily $150+ cheaper than BR players this would be an easier sell. Not to mention you get what you pay for with the upconverting player that plays all the features of the SD-DVD, unlike the BR player thats handy capped unless its the proper profile. And nothing would piss of a J6P more, than buying a product then buying the software to run on it and finding out you can't utilize the software to its fullest.

2) People (kind of like myself) who aren't ready to jump into Blu-Ray just yet and are currently happy with SD-DVD. SD-DVD's look good on a big screen but once you've had the taste of HD from cable or Sat, you start to want more out of your DVD collection. I personally just can't watch SD discs anymore, even upconverted on my PS3 or A30. My SD discs have been sold off or given to family and friends. I'm limiting my purchases of BR to only select titles, certainly not replacing most of what I had in the SD. And at the prices of BR right now why would I.

3) People who are anti-BD and will be willing to invest in any technology that upconverts SD to HD without investing in Blu-Ray. To those people I say get over it. Eventually there going to invest in the BR if it survives being a niche format. The only saving grace is the PS3. Not only that, those who are upset are upset at Toshiba for closing shop and not putting up a big enough fight. It just didn't seem that Toshiba had the will or the way to fight Sony when the going got tough.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Yes, but of all the average consumers I know (who just bought large TV's and have HD cable), they already own DVD players and I am willing to bet that none of them are willing to buy another DVD player. I can't really see that happening...Considering what the average Joe does with their systems (i.e. my family members have 50+" HD sets with the image stretched to fill the screen), I highly doubt most will care about the limitations of some Blu-Ray players. In fact, most won't even know that the upconversion isn't that good on these players, which will actually solidify why the Blu-Ray player was the best choice to begin with.

And as far as limitations; I really don't know of anyone (besides the people here) who actually view more than just the movie on a DVD. But you're not the average Joe. Like I said, the average Joe doesn't care...in fact, the average Joe will most likely be turned off by this player because it's not (the buzz word) "High Definition".


p.s. Did you see my last edit to my above post? I think you (as well as some people here) are in that 4th category, but I still don't think it's a large enough audience for this thing to make any real ground breaking in the sales category.

The only way the average consumer would buy this player is if it sold for under $100. Most people are short on cash these days and are willing to ride out their current DVD players.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I don't know which category I'd be pigeon-holed into. I have every intention of buying into Blu-Ray for my 52 in. LCD. As soon as the movie comes out that pushes me over the edge (LotR) I'm sooo there, cause the blu-ray picture is like no other. And yet...

I am also heavily invested in my SD collection. The majority of them will NEVER be put out on Blu-Ray. It's only natural that I should want them to look the best that they can, and from what I hear, the Blu-Ray machines are not yet the vehicle to best accomplish that part of my viewing.

So--I will definitely have the Blu-ray. But I may end up with this machine, too, if it does better by my standard discs. I await more news and reviews on this with interest. If it can be hacked to region two, so much the better.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I think you've missed a huge category..

People that are replacing their "dead" cheap DVD players -- and aren't well versed on all the 'Tech' Lingo, much less what it all means -- and are not willing to invest on Blu ray because of the un-attractive high prices.

PS: I was just chatting with a fellow shopper at Circuit City yesterday that insisted He had a Hi-Def player (it says 1080i on it!!) with his Panny Flat 1080p screen, even though he'd never heard of Blu Ray or HD_DVD...

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

It's really sad that the marketing for upconverting players has confused the general public to such an extent. This is likely to be the reason Blu-Ray never becomes mainstream.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

That's not really a reason for this. Toshiba would have to be crazy to be chasing this teeny tiny market share. I mean, HD-DVD failed. Certainly Toshiba isn't releasing a product just to capitalize on a tiny segment of a tiny market share to begin with, of which, a good portion of HD-DVD buyers have now become Blu-Ray buyers. This would be a market that is impossible to grow.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

I am in this category, purely because of COST.

I've seen HD-DVD and Blu-ray in action, in addition to having HD cable. This is correct, HD cable does leaving you wanting more from SD-DVD, as good as it is.

The moment I can afford to, I'm in but as I've said before, there are quite a small number of titles that I would replace in my DVD collection with Blu-ray counterparts.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Toshiba Canada recently pitted a Spider-Man 3 DVD playing on the Tosh XDE against a Spider-Man 3 Blu-ray playing on the new Samsung BD-1500. The test was conducted in a very controlled environment, but the results were still interesting.

Here's a link to the story (which also answers some of the marketing questions in this thread):

Spidy 3 DVD vs Blu-ray shootout

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

As I stated earlier in this thread, I would *love* to see a Toshiba Blu-ray player with XDE upconversion; but after reading some of the recent articles from the Toshiba marketing department, it's beginning to become apparent that it's going to be quite some time before that happens.

As for me, I may actually try to get my hands on one of these things this week. I was going to purchase the "profile 2.0 ready" Sony BD-S350, but after reading about the average upconverting the deck provides combined with the extra RAM that will have to be purchased in order to allow it to (eventually) play profile 2.0 enabled discs, I'm having second thoughts.

I could buy this XDE player now (which just may be the best DVD player ever made) and enjoy my current DVDs while waiting for the Blu-ray decks to come down in price -- and for the technology to mature a little. *And* with this deck in hand, I won't have to worry quite so much about how well that new Blu-ray player upconverts my current collection.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

You´ve plenty of faith on this player, considering that the only "info" that we have is from the press release from Toshiba (info courtesy of "marketing department")

I mean who knows, perhaps it´s great in upscaling. But perhaps it´s not. Adding "edge enhancement where it´s needed" doesn´t really sound promising...

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

On the AVSForum, there is a thread with plenty of screencaps, demonstrating the different XDE settings when compared to HD-DVD and Oppo players.

The XDE resulted in plenty of 'jaggies' - those aliasing lines that are all over the non-anamorphic SW trilogy discs.

Here's the thread, should be very helpful:

XD-E500 Owners thread. - AVS Forum

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

As I've been harping about for some time, deinterlacing is by far the most important factor for SD DVD PQ - not scaling. The chipsets in these new Toshibas cannot hold a candle to top notch deinterlacers such as ABT, Reon, and Realta - which as good as they are, can not hold a candle to quality Blu-ray or 1080p/24 material.

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

Perhaps this thread is even in the wrong forum. People who already bought into HD cannot possibly be very interested in upconverted SD. Or even in comparisons (screencaps and all ).

If current BD players (and HD-DVD players) would do a lousy job upconverting our SDVD images and the TV sets and projectors were lousy in that respect as well, only then would we be somewhat interested.

This machine will be aimed at a totally different segment of the market, as expressed in this thread more than once. And rightfully so. Why wouldn't someone who decided not to go into HD yet, be interested in the best possible image? More power to him/her!
And it helps providing a splendid incremental path for those HT-enthusiasts to arrive at full BD in the end, and without too much pain.

Of course, we still need to see the blasted thing, compare it to equivalents like the OPPO's etc. before we can come to final conclusions.


Cees

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

You gotta love threads where quality comparisons are being made with pictures of images on a screen taken where the author has added

I don't think this player is going to be a big deal outside of the forums. Big Box stores are already telling people that 1080p DVD players are HD...

If the scaler is good I would hope to see it in TVs where it can be put to use upconverting crappy 480i TV

Re: More information coming to light regarding Toshiba's new "Blu-ray killer"

That was only the beginning of the thread, and as I skimmed through the later pages, the guy who took the screencaps ended up returning the XDE because of better results with other players anyway. The caps were from one user, not everyone in that thread.