A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

I have U-571 on D-Theater and it is infinitely superior to U-571 on Blu-Ray, which clearly was processed of detail. We are viewing on a calibrated 73 inch set.

Does the BD look like LONGEST DAY? No. But it absolutely looks noise reduced to a fault. The fact that a digital MPEG2 TAPE looks better is sickening to me. We had hoped to retire that thing.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Argument by fighting self-defined proxy.

No one here I know of said that, or implied that.

Screencaps of movies can be useful to demonstrate, or explain, something one has seen while watching the film. Only if done well, of course.
But isolated they should never be used to prove anything, as they can't.


Cees

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

+1
I knew when Xylon showed up here, he would raise the bar.
(and a few eyebrows!)

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

OK
Always a good idea.
Just in the case of "U", the subject at hand, we now have a transfer w/LESS grain than the 2 previous HDM releases.
W/less grain structure, is the Blu "U" simply better?
OK
Always a GREAT idea!

EDitEDbyED:
OK
Both those other 2 HDM formats are DEAD!
However, I always thought D-VHS would be useful in evaluating the next HT HD format. So, if you don't care about the HD DVD, I clearly understand. If someone wishes too say its the best right now, I'm cool w/that too (even though I own the red "U"). I was hoping too hear more about D-VHS sound as well; which I had always "heard" (ha, ha) was great. Not only w/"U", butt w/all titles that are on shinny discs compared to the old plastic wrap.
Yeah, if the Blu is "good enough" for you, the Blu is good enough for you!
OK

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

There's a real good article in todays Video Business about the challenges the studios face on Blu, it doesnt appear to be on their web site yet...

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Oh come on, Sam. That is too much of a tease. Could you provide us with a quick "executive summary?"

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Of course this all depends on how the screen shot was obtained. A screen shot taken with a digital camera off of a TV screen is next to useless.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Posting screen shots or even video clips in the course of a review or discussion would probably not be a copyright violation. It would most likely fall under fair use as it apply to using quotations when reviewing a work of literature.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

The definition of direct digital 1:1 is exactly that, no pics with cameras, the data from the disc decompressed and then presented 1:1 (no rescaling except the unavoidable conversion from 4:2:0 to 4:4:4).

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

That when consumers see motion pictures in HD they say "That's not high definition" because the consumer electronics companies have conditioned them to accept the grainless (and super saturated) video camera HD clips as the defacto 'look' for what they want out of HD.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

I think Sam is referring to the article that can be found here, starting on page 7 of the PDF file. It contains highly pertinent quotes from George Feltenstein at Warner and Crispin Glover at Sony, both of whom are well-known for their commitment to the very best on home video.

M.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Thanks Michael. It is a brief, but interesting read. Reading the article, it struck me as quite similar to the arguments about original aspect ratio. I don't think it is as serious a problem, but it is still an issue.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

That is exactly the article, thanks Adam.

Aspect ratio is something that you cannot argue about in depth, it is either right or wrong. Picture Quality entails multiple spectrums of subjective measurements and gut feelings in addition to those qualities which can be measured or compared in discrete steps by looking at screen shots.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

It's my lot in life to do things that others get thanked for.

M.

?

Even if they clearly show the artifacts in question?

I do agree, digital cameras add artifacts of their own, that can distort the evaluation. Just I feel a digital pic of say banding is indeed relevant to PQ problems (now the problem would be: is it the set or source?!?!?! ;-) ).

EDitEDbyED:
I'm glad some are nick picking "U". I'm positive some are not happy about it. This title (like the movie or not) has been (even back in the DVD Day; remember then??? ;-) ) a reference (for AQ for sure, if not for PQ) for HT. I'm looking for today's HDM too better yesterdays HV releases (VHS, S-VHS, CDV, VCD, S-VCD, LD CLV, LD CAV, LD Anamorphic, DVD, DVD Anamorphic, D-VHS, HD DVD). Or, be at least as good.

Don't mean too be picking on "U". :-)
Fun opening sequence! BOOM!!!

Off Topic.

Obviously you've never been on a "Beatles" AR thread!!! :-0
JJ

Different countries, different theaters, different releases...
UGH!!!
;-)

Oh coarse w/"The Beatles" people tend too argue/discuss endlessly anyway!
:-)

Back on topic:
I think the AR of this release should be the shape of a sub!

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

post removed

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Try telling that to the posters in 'The Last Emperor' threads.


I pretty much agree with you which is what I meant by my comment saying that it is not as serious a problem. One, like you said, is more subjective and therefore harder to quantify on an agreed upon scale. The other is a butchering of the composition and the visual language of the film.

The similarity that I was pointing out is that many consumers didn't seem to care about aspect ratio. They just didn't want to see black bars. Now, they don't seem to care about artistic intent or an accurate representation of film. They just want it to look like the nature loop on all the maxed out sets at the local electronics mega-mart.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Our HiDef is now:
SubDef

Re: ?

A screen shot taken with a digital camera off of a TV screen or even projection has too many potential things in the way of the original image to be of any use in evaluating the image. The camera could be creating artifacts either digitally or optically, the system being photographed could be introducing artifacts that aren't on the original images.

Also with the example of banding, depending on the quality of the camera, it could be producing banding of its own. Also depending on its resolution, it could be interacting with the scan lines of the TV and producing all kinds of strange artifacts.

As Michael said only a direct 1 to 1 image capture directly from the data an be of some use. Even then you have to be very careful that the software being used to do the capture is set completely neutral and doesn't automatically do its own processing. Some software that allows capture will do its own processing with out the knowledge user with out any way of turning it off.

Having read a little about how Xylon does his screen captures, I suspect he knows what he is doing.

Doug

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

Xylon isnt posting DSLR shots, he actually has a mechanism that is getting around the DRM of the BDs to make the screenshots.

And woops, thank you MICHAEL!

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

I know.

Re: A few words about...™ U-571 -- in Blu-ray

I watched the BD tonight. While I am against grain reduction - particularly when it removes fine detail - I just want to say I think the BD still looks good. It's not as bad as I expected (watching on 60" display at 1080p/24).