- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Rensselaer, NY
- Post Count: 17,543
Well it should come as no surprise to anyone who has followed the saga of Criterion's release of The Last Emperor on DVD that
their announcement of their new Blu-ray release of TLE also carried the controversial 2:1 aspect ratio--approved by Director Bernardo Bertolucci and Director of Photography Vittorio Storaro.
THIS HTF thread in the SD Software section carries a spirited debate on the issue of Bertolucci and Storaro re-cropping a film that was originally presented 2.35:1.
As I said in that other thread...The Last Emperor probably contains some of the most strikingly beautiful images I've ever seen in a film. I think it's a shame that the Director & DP have allowed this film to be cropped down to a smaller version of it's original size. While I realize "it's their film," I wish the original ratio could have been presented as well somehow. Upon learning Storaro's theories in the information provided in that other thread, I can't say I go along with someone who is an acknowledged film genius. But, that's me.
There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
- Joined: September 2002
- Post Count: 3,700
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
It is what it is. You always have the choice to not purchase the release.
My DVD/BD CollectionCriterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
-
Robert Crawford
- Crawdaddy
-
- online
- Joined: December 1998
- Location: Michigan
- Post Count: 17,105
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
It is what it is. You always have the choice to not purchase the release.
|
Very true and since the filmmakers signed off on it, I'll probably buy it.
Crawdaddy
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
- Joined: August 2002
- Post Count: 501
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
| Well it should come as no surprise to anyone who has followed the saga of Criterion's release of The Last Emperor on DVD that their announcement of their new Blu-ray release of TLE also carried the controversial 2:1 aspect ratio--approved by Director Bernardo Bertolucci and Director of Photography Vittorio Storaro. |
I could understand this practice (but didn't like it) in laserdisc days. I could also understand it for a non-anamorphic DVD. But I detest it in the era of the anamorphic DVD and HD where the vertical resolution is designed for a 16:9 TV.
-R
The truth doesn't care whether you believe it.
- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Rensselaer, NY
- Post Count: 17,543
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by RobertR
Just to be clear: Does Storaro favor the 2:1 ratio because he thinks video resolution is too limited, or has he decided he now prefers that ratio for ALL showings of his "scope" films?
|
Robert:
Here, in Storaro's own words, are his thoughts on the subject. It is an interesting but frustrating read. I see it as his own determined push to create a new "standard" in aspect ratio of 2:1. So he now posits that The Last Emperor was actually composed with a 2:1 aspect ratio in mind.
Here is more on Univision from Wikipedia.
I'm a little surprised that some here are okay with the change simply because the filmmakers have signed off on it. The cropping would seem to be a real case of revisionism in order to prove a point (or maybe sell a concept).
There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
- Joined: September 2002
- Post Count: 3,700
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I'm a little surprised that some here are okay with the change simply because the filmmakers have signed off on it. The cropping would seem to be a real case of revisionism in order to prove a point (or maybe sell a concept).
|
The creator is king in my book. Sometimes it bothers me more than other times, but it's a consistent principle. Obviously, if a film has multiple versions I'd love to have all available for the consumer. When such isn't the case I simply evaluate whether I'll make the purchase on a case by case basis. In this case it simply doesn't bother me enough to no purchase the disc and enjoy the film.
My DVD/BD CollectionCriterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Rensselaer, NY
- Post Count: 17,543
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
If anyone wants to see what the difference looks like...
DVD Beaver put up this comparison of the Artisan, the Region 2 release, the Criterion SD theatrical release and the Criterion SD TV release.
It features images such as these:
GCTHV (R2) release:
Criterion (R1) SD theatrical release:
There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Rensselaer, NY
- Post Count: 17,543
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Yet there are those who will say "that's fine" because two of the filmmakers say it's okay.
And yet, as one example, I don't know of too many people who are happy when the Disney company edits its material to eliminate scenes of smoking or racism.
It may be a bit of a stretch of a comparison, yet it seems to all head down the same path--changes made to the originally-presented material to fit a new agenda of the filmmakers.
There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Rensselaer, NY
- Post Count: 17,543
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TonyD
that's striking to see that again.
an entire portion of the left side of the image is lost.
including an entire building.
while the right side is mostly unscathed.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MattH.
It's even more problematic when people get sawed in two on the left side of the screen, and I remember those jarring compositions a couple of times in the film when I reviewed it some months ago.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by RobertR
Ugh. That's a substantial difference. I think you're right. He's simply pushing for a unified 2:1 standard, which he thinks is "ideal".
|
And don't just go by those two images. The
others from Gary Tooze demonstrate similar dramatic shifts in composition.
The colors look sooooooo much nicer...it would be great to have them across the
entire image.
There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
- Joined: February 2004
- Location: St. Hubert, Quebec
- Post Count: 2,072
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
I may be in the minority, but the colour differences are far more striking to me than the cropping (not that I don't favour OAR, it's just that in this case, the colour difference would bother me more).
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and it annoys the pig.
- Joined: September 2002
- Post Count: 3,700
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Yet there are those who will say "that's fine" because two of the filmmakers say it's okay.
And yet, as one example, I don't know of too many people who are happy when the Disney company edits its material to eliminate scenes of smoking or racism.
It may be a bit of a stretch of a comparison, yet it seems to all head down the same path--changes made to the originally-presented material to fit a new agenda of the filmmakers.
|
The Disney comparison is not apt because the modern corporation is not the original artists. Walt's own cropping of Fantasia upon its re-release to excise the more stereotypical black centaurs is a closer comparison. In that case, I'm again okay with it because the creator okay'd it, though again having both versions would be ideal.
My DVD/BD CollectionCriterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
-
Douglas Monce
- Douglas Monce
-
- offline
- Joined: November 2006
- Location: Phoenix, Arizona
- Post Count: 3,814
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
Yet there are those who will say "that's fine" because two of the filmmakers say it's okay.
And yet, as one example, I don't know of too many people who are happy when the Disney company edits its material to eliminate scenes of smoking or racism.
It may be a bit of a stretch of a comparison, yet it seems to all head down the same path--changes made to the originally-presented material to fit a new agenda of the filmmakers.
|
To me it would be different if this were a case of Columbia Pictures arbitrarily decided to crop the film. But when the director and the director of photography say this is the way the film should now be seen, I don't see much point in arguing with it.
I can't say that I understand it, and I would do something like that to a film of my own, but its not my film its Bernardo Bertolucci's, and he says this is the way it should look.
Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
- Joined: October 2001
- Location: Rensselaer, NY
- Post Count: 17,543
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Maybe Bertolucci's a bit loopy, too!
There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself. Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!
-
Douglas Monce
- Douglas Monce
-
- offline
- Joined: November 2006
- Location: Phoenix, Arizona
- Post Count: 3,814
Re: The Last Emperor on Blu-ray
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by RobertR
We may not be able to change their minds, but we don't ever have to agree with a filmmaker's choices--not with changes, and not with the original choices for that matter. We're always free to say "hey, I think what you did was a bad idea".
|
I agree completely with this and it is one of the reasons I won't be buying The Last Emperor or Apocalypse Now or any other film that Storaro chooses to crop in this way.
I support his right to make these choices, but I don't have to watch them.
Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
