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2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

#181
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm R
The CBC commentators also thought the scores were quite low for certain athletes' routines.

Thanks Malcolm and Andrew too. I'm glad to know that it wasn't just an American bias that made the scoring seem weird. It just highlights the inherent problems with any sport that has to be judged and the strange scoring system only makes it worse.
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#182
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
The other thing is that if a particular athlete doesn't get the medal he is "supposed" to get, he is almost portrayed as a loser.
From what I've seen of the US media, I do think you are a bit harsh on your non-medal winners. BUT: I think it's preferable to the fawning behaviour of a lot of the British media who are always willing to come up with an excuse for any of our athletes who don't do their best.

I think we often forget that the Olympic creed exhorts everyone to try their hardest. If I had any say in the matter, in addition to the medals, I would award certificates of some kind to any competitor who produced a personal best record at the games (okay, not every sport could have these because PBs cannot be measured in this way in some sports, but that doesn't deny the idea is valid where it can be applied).
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#183
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJ
I'm glad to know that it wasn't just an American bias that made the scoring seem weird. It just highlights the inherent problems with any sport that has to be judged and the strange scoring system only makes it worse.
I've always disliked competitions involving subjective judging, due to the potential for political influence, etc. I much prefer sports with objective outcomes (distances, times, weights, points scored, etc.).
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#184
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Did anyone see Bela Karolyi's hilarious cheerleading and celebration that was filmed as he watched the completion of Nastia Liukin's floor exercise last night with Bob Costas? Man, is there anyone more passionate about gymnastics than that guy?
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#185
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

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But 'greatest Olympian' implies something truly special, beyond a tally of how many medals have been won
I totally agree with you. I can see people calling Phelps the 'winningest Olympian' or even perhaps the 'best athelete ever' (a stretch). However, the 'greatest Olympian' is someone who does more with their position (as an Olympian and representative of a country) than swimming a few minutes in a pool... it's what they do after the games that matters. So far Phelps's public out of pool activities include a DUI (and not much else). Contrast this with Olympians who set up charitable foundations or humanitarian aid organizations.

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Although it also seems quite unbelievable all of the WRs being broken. Could is just be the new suits? The pool depth? The new lane lines? Maybe.
Not maybe... absolutely. All of a sudden in the past year competitors from ALL countries have started shattering their personal bests as well as world records (so if it was doping then _all_of_them_ would have had to start at the same time). The new suits have decreased resistance and added buoyancy and have decreased times over average distances by almost a full second. The decreased water turbulence (new pool and lane lines) also has a positive effect on times. Keep in mind that the pool in China is brand new and contains all the latest technical innovations... it is what the athletes call 'fast water'. A similar situation occurred in Atlanta in '96 when they introduced the 'wall less' pools (no waves off the sides) + the 'new' shark-fin suits (decreased drag in the water).

Greg
My DVD Collection

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#186
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael_K_Sr
Did anyone see Bela Karolyi's hilarious cheerleading and celebration that was filmed as he watched the completion of Nastia Liukin's floor exercise last night with Bob Costas? Man, is there anyone more passionate about gymnastics than that guy?

I saw that and I don't blame him. I think Bob wanted to slip him some Valium or something.
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#187
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Phelps just stole one from Cavic. The guy let up for a millisecond AT THE WALL, and Phelps touched 0.01 seconds sooner. Amazing. Cavic will be watching that race forever. He had it. But Phelps took it.
Hey buddy...did you just see a real bright light?
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#188
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Wow!!!




Now that was a race. I don't know which was better this or the 4x100 relay (I know Andrew...it was the women's 4x100 )
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#189
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Phelps just stole one from Cavic. The guy let up for a millisecond AT THE WALL, and Phelps touched 0.01 seconds sooner. Amazing. Cavic will be watching that race forever. He had it. But Phelps took it.

Exactly...I hate to use the word lucky, but Phelps seemed to benefit from Cavic trying to coast instead of taking one more stroke. And the official difference of 0.01 probably underestimates the closeness. It may have actually been 0.001 if the clocks had that resolution.


Update...Cavic's coach is filing an appeal -- I guess he feels Cavic did indeed touch the wall first.
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#190
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Exciting finish, although Phelps gets in because of the strategic error by Cavic at the end. For my money that 4X100 relay is still the most scintillating race at the pool in these Games.
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#191
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

The 4x100 was sheer effort. This one was the briefest moment of contentment. A lot more energy and sport in the 4x100's exciting finish. For my money.
Hey buddy...did you just see a real bright light?
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#192
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

I am looking forward to the 100m finals -- Jamaica has two studs (Powell and Bolt) who are making the preliminary rounds look easy.

Plus, they will be formidable in the relay.
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#193
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Great comments from Spitz to Phelps. I hope others got to hear this. It was very classy and it was nice to hear after the flap around him not being invited to these Games.
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#194
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

I think that even if Nadal wins the singles gold and the U.S. Open in a few weeks, giving him 3 majors on the year, Phelps is still named Sports Illustrated's Sportsman of the Year.
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#195
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
The new suits have decreased resistance and added buoyancy and have decreased times over average distances by almost a full second.
Perhaps even more importantly, they also offer support to the abdominal muscles, which give cramp pains in any race longer than a short sprint.
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#196
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

What's the deal with the Swedish wrestler throwing down his bronze medal?

Here
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#197
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

he was obviously in disagreement with the judges scoring.
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#198
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Hewell
What's the deal with the Swedish wrestler throwing down his bronze medal?

Here
Here's a recap from another message board:
Quote:
I watched the match. The whole thing stinks to me. At one point, he wins a point for escaping a hold but then the judge on the sideline says he went out of the ring and takes away his point and gives it to the other guy. Then the Italian guy goes waaay farther out of the ring than he did and nothing happens. Then they stop the match late to give the Swedish guy "treatment" although he doesn't appear hurt and the Italian guy looks gassed.

And they are saying that if you protest an overrule the judges are supposed to look at video but they refused to do it. And both the finalists were rather unheralded, with the Italian guy also beating the favorite along the way.

At best, it was an extremely poorly ref'ed match with the Swedish dude losing on a terrible call everyone agrees it was highly questionable. AT BEST. But I think it stinks pretty bad.

Keep in mind this guy also lost in the gold medal match in 2004 in a match where it was later alleged that the coach was giving odd signals to the ref and that the ref was bribed.

I don't know enough about Greco-Roman wrestling and the supposed corruption in the ranks of judges to say for sure. But I could see why the guy might be really pissed, and why his actions were more a necessary public protest than a hissy fit.


The man I loved - the man who vanished - he never came back at all. But maybe he's still out there, somewhere. Maybe some day, when Gotham no longer needs Batman, I'll see him again.
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#199
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

I'm still having a problem with NBC counting total medals as the way to determine who is first on the medals table.

This shows the USA first because they have 21 bronze medals and the Chinese only have 6. The fact that China has 27 golds and USA has 16 doesn't seem to count! (Both CBC and BBC use the total golds method.)

1. USA: 16 gold - 16 silver - 21 bronze = 53 total
2. China: 27 gold - 13 silver - 6 bronze = 46 total

Not favoring any team here, just don't agree with this way of counting.
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#200
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

why does badmitten gold count the same as swimming?
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#201
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
I'm still having a problem with NBC counting total medals as the way to determine who is first on the medals table.

that's the way it's traditionally been done, it wasn't just started by NBC this year.


"now, if that's a fact, tell me... am i lying?"

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#202
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

anyone see that game called 'handball'? where did that come from? (no its not the one like racketball)
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#203
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Soccer: 2 quarterfinals playing simultaneously, one live, one taped for broadcast right after. Why do the commentators on the live game feel the need to tell the score of the other game??!!

I am so frustrated right now, I was looking forward to a day of Soccer, especially Nigeria vs Cote D'Ivoire, and now I know the score of all the other games to be played later on the same channel. Why why why why why?! Why bother?

--
H
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#204
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by billjames
why does badmitten gold count the same as swimming?


Because Gold is Gold.
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#205
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by billjames
why does badmitten gold count the same as swimming?

Because it's the fastest racket sport and the second most popular sport in the world.
SACD not listed at sa-cd.net (updated 8/26/2009)
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#206
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Marianne, do you have an alternative way of counting? I supposed you would favor some kind of coefficient/weight system? Which then begs the question, exactly how many bronze and silver medals are worth a gold one? I don't imagine you will come up with something that is NOT arbitrary.

--
H
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#207
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holadem
Marianne, do you have an alternative way of counting? I supposed you would favor some kind of coefficient/weight system? Which then begs the question, exactly how many bronze and silver medals are worth a gold one? I don't imagine you will come up with something that is NOT arbitrary.

--
H

I don't think it is arbitrary to count total golds first, then silvers, then bronzes.

BTW it's the way the IOC (International Olympic Committee) counts them.

This is the medal table for the Athens 2004 Games on the IOC website:

INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE - OLYMPIC GAMES

If you go down the table you will see that they count gold medals first. How very "arbitrary" of them - oh wait, it's their party!

Quote:
Which then begs the question, exactly how many bronze and silver medals are worth a gold one?
Maybe you should ask Michael Phelps that question.
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#208
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
anyone see that game called 'handball'? where did that come from? (no its not the one like racketball)

Handball is a very popular sport in a large part of the world (happy to be corrected, but I believe that to be included, a sport has to be played by a significant proportion of the population on at least three continents - this is why baseball and American football aren't in the Olympics).

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why does badmitten gold count the same as swimming?

I presume you mean 'badminton'? As has already been noted, this is incredibly popular across most of the world. Personally, I think it's way more fun to play than watch, but each to their own. And if you think badminton is easy, I've one thing to say - try it. It's as exhausting as tennis, but you don't get a little sit down every couple of minutes.

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I don't think it is arbitrary to count total golds first, then silvers, then bronzes.

I agree with Marianne. Medal tables are all about who won the event. The silver and bronzes are only used to break a tie if two or more countries have the same number of golds. Otherwise, if you include non-gold medals in the total tally, you get into a situation where a country with lots of first and second losers (i.e. silver and bronze medallists) could outrank a country with a higher number of winners. [Sorry, that all sounds a bit blunt, and anyone who even qualifies for an Olympics is worthy of respect, but you know what I mean]

On the plus side, if we factor in number of medals per head of population, then the USA is beating China. Only trouble is that a lot of other countries then beat the USA.
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#209
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Re: 2008 Summer Olympics - Beijing, China

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Hewell
What's the deal with the Swedish wrestler throwing down his bronze medal?


From what I have been reading he was cheated out of a gold medal by mat side judges. He, apparently, had been awarded a win in the second round of his semi-final bout with an Italian named Minguzzi. The judges reversed their decision while he was discussing third round strategy with his coach and gave the Italian the second round win.

I watched the video where the swede went after the judges about the call. One judge was laughing and smirking at him as people tried to restrain him. I had a good laugh at how fast the smirk came off the judge's face when the Swede got close enough to do some damage, had he chosen to do so.

I don't blame the guy for doing what he did. It only helps to bring to light what a corrupt farce the Olympics are. The IOC says that the Swede insulted all Olympic competitors by his actions. I disagree. The biggest insult to Olympic athletes is the IOC itself. They turn a blind eye to underage people competing in these Olympics and they turn a blind eye to corrupt decision making by "judges" who are supposedly impartial. The IOC allow countries to stack the deck in their favour and then have the gall to act self-righteous when an athlete finally has enough of their shit. It's sick.

When you have to shoot...shoot. Don't talk!

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#210
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Was the men's 100m sprint shown live on TV?

So this morning, around 10:30am, I'm watching NBC for one of the marquee events of the Olympics - the men's 100m sprint - and I can't even see it!! Instead they're showing a group basketball match.

Then I go to NBCOlympics.com and find out it's already been run. WTH?? Utter nonsense!

I just can't understand the stupidity of the programming at NBC. It's not like the 100m race would have taken longer than 5 min to cover (including pre and post race). If they couldn't break into the basketball, at least show it on one of the other channels. I think UniversalHD, MSNBC and Telemundo were all showing the SAME soccer match (Argentina-Holland), at the SAME time.

Ridiculous.

Joe

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