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Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

#1
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8/1/08 at 10:58am
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Ok everyone.

As some of you may or may not have seen in this thread, I currently do not have a subwoofer in my setup (see link for my existing setup, and upgrade plans).

Now, ever since I got into Home Theater, I've had my heart set on a 20-39 PC Plus SVS that I can't afford yet.

With my upgrade plans layed out in the other thread, am I better off getting a cheap crappy sub now, and save for the SVS? Or should I not worry about a sub since I've done without one for so long anyway?

Thanks for the help everyone.
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#2
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8/1/08 at 4:55pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

I'd get a cheap sub just to protect your speakers. You can get a Sony, Yamaha, etc. for around $100 on ebay. Or maybe something used. If you decide not to get a sub until you can afford that SVS, I'd set the crossover on the receiver to at least 60 just as a precaution. That's what I'd do, anyway. Nothing worse than blowing a speaker while saving for a sub.
"Everyday room": Mitsubishi 52631 RPTV, H/K 520, H/K dvd-5, H/K 8380, H/K CDR 20, OPPO BDP-83 BluRay player, Dish-HD, Infinity Beta 20's-C250-OWS1's, Dayton HSU10.
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#3
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8/1/08 at 7:53pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Personally I would just due without until you can get the sub you want. The only deviation from that would be if a great deal comes along used and you are pretty confident you can flip the intermediary sub for close to the same price you paid for it.

Mains............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center...........Polk LSiC
Surrounds......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - Wood sides removed)
Subwoofers....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro..........NAD T163 - Modded with LM4562 opamps Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)...

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#4
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8/1/08 at 8:39pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

The answer depends upon many variables. A "cheap crappy sub" is subjective to room, listening levels, performance expectations, etc.

I would say that including a sub into your system will help, affording a quality sub is, again subjective.

I included a very inexpensive sub into my system about 6-7 years ago and I was well pleased. Then I started reading this forum and others only to find out that there were much better sounding units out there and I really didn't know what I was missing. Sure I went to theaters and enjoyed the emersion into what I though was quality sound.

I have since upgraded( SVS PB-Ultra 13) but if I listened to ALL the hype I'd still be shopping for the "perfect" sub. This animal doesn't exist.

I'd say incorporate what you can afford with due diligence to a price range that members here can help you with. Outline your listening habits and volume levels desired. Make sure to invest in calibration equipment. It is not expensive.

I have several friends that purchased subs in the couple hundred dollar range and they were extremely disappointed until they calibrated and they are now satisfied. Yes, they know there is better and have heard better but they are at least getting LFE involved into their soundtracks.

I am positive there are better sounding systems than what I have but it is what I can afford and I get pleasure from it. BTW, there is ALWAYS something "better" = more expensive.

Have fun!!

.....this is truly an illness

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#5
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8/2/08 at 4:53am
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS
but if I listened to ALL the hype I'd still be shopping for the "perfect" sub. This animal doesn't exist.
At least not until you get into DIY and then you can build one to match your room and goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil_J
Now, ever since I got into Home Theater, I've had my heart set on a 20-39 PC Plus SVS that I can't afford yet.
If you have the tools (or know someone who does) and some basic woodworking skills, you can re-create the 20-39 PC+ for have of SVS's price. If you want to use your entire $899 budget, you can buid something that will CRUSH the SVS. DIY isn't for everyone, but if you can do it then it the results can be great. How do you think Tom and Ron started SVS? Tom helped Ron design a DIY sub on this forum.

-Robert
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#6
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8/2/08 at 9:20am
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert_J
At least not until you get into DIY and then you can build one to match your room and goals.

If you have the tools (or know someone who does) and some basic woodworking skills, you can re-create the 20-39 PC+ for have of SVS's price. If you want to use your entire $899 budget, you can buid something that will CRUSH the SVS. DIY isn't for everyone, but if you can do it then it the results can be great. How do you think Tom and Ron started SVS? Tom helped Ron design a DIY sub on this forum.

-Robert

Yeah, I remember when Tom and Ron were on here posting several times per day, it's how I first heard about SVS.

However, I'm not a DIY guy in a lot of things, woodworking being one of them. If I had the right tools and some close by help I probably would consider it, but right now that prospect is just too intimidating.
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#7
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8/2/08 at 12:56pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Well Robert, your endless touting of DIY subbing may be wearing me down. In the coming months (probably more like year) I am hoping to do some experimenting. I can do a lot of the fashioning myself, but I also have some others available for some the of more precise woodwork.

Is there a software app for Mac, or am I stuck using windoze to do the calculations and basic design. At first I am probably thinking sonosub with external amps, just so I can scrap one effort with minimal lost $$.

I was looking at TC Sounds, and holy crap those drivers get stinking expensive.


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Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.
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#8
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8/3/08 at 6:16am
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

John, unfortunately there is no subwoofer modeling software for the Mac that I know of. If you don't want to switch I can at least help you with that part of the equation.

Sonosubs are easiest to build but not the cheapest. You would think that a giant toilet paper tube of cardboard would be cheap. WRONG! Most places make you buy the entire tube which is 10' to 12' in length. But then it is easier to justify building multiple subs.

After TC Sounds went bankrupt and tried a name change to Audiopulse to keep the creditors at bay, it has pretty much been written off by the DIY community. Thilo did find a bunch of new investors and bought back most of the hardware and intellectual property at the liquidation auction. He is in the process of setting up a production facility overseas but don't look for any price reductions. Look for drivers from Dayton (Parts Express), Rythmik Audio, Elemental Designs, DIY Cable (Exodus Audio) and Fi Car Audio. Soundsplinter is also great but they used TC Sounds as their OEM so inventory is dwindling fast.

I know return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

-Robert
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#9
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8/3/08 at 9:32am
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Thanks for the info Robert. I have an Intel mac at work, so I could always use that for the design app. Just as general suggestions, what drivers are recommended to create a sub in the SVS PB12/Plus-2 to PB Ultra 13 range? I'm just wondering about cost.

As far as sonotubes, I know a lot of people in construction, so I can probably score some scrap tube if I try. Not sure if it will be difficult to get it undamaged. I would think there is someone I can go to and ask "can you knock 3 ft off one of those?"


They flutter behind you, your possible pasts.
Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.
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#10
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8/4/08 at 5:55am
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Wil_J, keep watching the For Sale section here. I've seen a lot of the SVS cylinder subs for sale on the west coast. That should keep shipping to a minimum. Also check the SVS B-stock on a daily basis. If you were closer, I'd sell you a pair of SVS PC 20-39 "clones" for less than what a single model costs.

John, are the Plus/2 and PB13 the size of sub you are looking at doing? Then how about something like this - link? No, that is not mine. Just start a thread and we can discuss things rather than clutter up this one.

-Robert
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#11
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8/4/08 at 7:25am
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Robert, yeah I'll start a thread in the DIY section. I'm just being lazy.

Sorry about the hijack Wil.


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Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost.
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#12
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8/4/08 at 2:17pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

I'll jump in to help get Wil's thread back on track (and then I'll be over to peek in the DIY section to see what you two are up to! ).

Wil: The one variable which, it seems to me, everyone has forgotten to ask is--how long do you anticipate it'll take you to save before you can afford the desired SVS subwoofer?

Because you could always look at the purchase of a lesser sub as a rental. You could probably turn around and off-load it and make up a fair amount of your original investment.

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#13
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8/4/08 at 3:36pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

I couldn't say. Since I have a couple things to save for first. The SVS is at the bottom of the list since the others are higher priority. I don't anticipate being able to get an SVS before December of this year. Probably Jan or Feb next year with my tax return, depending on how things turn out financially between now and then.
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#14
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8/6/08 at 7:27pm
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Re: Ok, newb question about a subwoofer

Why not a smaller inexpensive sub and then purchase a second to match at a later date? Dual subsare an excellent option and with carefull placement can often best a single larger sub. The Velodyne VRP1200 comes to mind at -3db at 30hz-not to bad for the price. The driver used in these is pretty impressive-cast frame, large voice coil, etc-all the makings of a quality sub. But Robert got me hooked on the DIY stuff a while ago so now i have multiple subs all over the room LOL.
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