Terminator 1 & 2

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I thought someone might say that, David. The thing is, the Optimum encode looks better to me (in motion, natch) without looking like it's been blatantly contrast boosted or overly sharpened. If anything the contrast seems slightly hotter on the Skynet encode.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

David,

It seems that link isn't working.

By the way, do you have the UK version by chance?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

The Beaver has their review up, and it features a cap of Sarah in the desert that illustrates the softness of the Skynet version quite succinctly. Look at the vertical markings on the arm of Sarah's sunglasses; they simply disappear on the Skynet encode. As you say Van, even tiny changes can noticeably affect the look of the final product.

T2 - Skynet Edition Blu-ray - Arnold Linda Hamilton

These things should never be judged on screenshot science alone, but in my case the shots are an accurate indication of what I'm seeing. (No, the comparison doesn't include the Optimum encode in any form, but I'm of the opinion that it's as good as the Geneon one.)

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Geoff,

No doubt about it.

Yes, if you compare the original Lionsgate version to the Skynet version, you can clearly see more detail on Linda Hamilton's face on the original (be sure to zoom each image).

Skynet: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...20blu-ray1.jpg

vs.

Original: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRe...sunglasses.jpg

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Kris Deering - another respected reviewer and videophile expert- claims the new version has slightly less detail.

Home Theater: T2 Judgment Day Skynet Edition—Lionsgate (Blu-ray)

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

It looks more like edge enhancement to me on the old releases.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

It's this cap here that illustrates it most for me:


Terrible. I'm sure you could make a good pot out of that bit of clay there. Oh wait, that's meant to be human skin. Ugh!

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I don't think you know what you are looking at nor how to interpret it.

There is no "clay face" artifact that you refer to in that cap. Grain reduced, perhaps, but not excessive DNR. Color gradients are smooth and fine texture is visible for the most part. I can easily see small scars and even the beginning of a small pimple under the makeup in Furlong's face.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

If there's one thing the internet needs more of, it's ridiculous hyperbole and people blowing things out of proportion.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

It's oversmoothed and not what the IP looks like.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

You've, ah, seen "the IP" then, Michel?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Maybe, maybe not. But, it isn't what was described by the poster that I responded to.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

My memory is foggy on this, but I seem to recall on one of the overseas releases the extended version of the film looked slightly sharper than the theatrical cut. Has anyone confirmed this being the case with the Skynet version?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I was using a generic term to refer to to how smooth his skin looked, but thank you for showing me the error of my ways, I'll be sure to use the proper terminology next time from the DNR Handbook. Mr. George, Sir!!

I agree, but one thing we also need less is apologists...

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

any update on when the lowery transfer of terminator 1 will be released on blu ray? ive held off buying the original for awhile now ever since i found out lowery would be working on terminator 1.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Matthew, there is no announced street date for the new T1 Lowry restoration yet... it's all contingent on Jim Cameron having the time to participate. Hopefully it will be this year... but I'm not holding my breath.

V

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I'd love if Cameron had the time to approve the transfers and completely understand that he's busy on Avatar but it's kind of funny and kind of nuts that he's busy for a year.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Van Ling,
What's up with the THX OPTIMODE's black levels; they are all washed out?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

EXCLUSIVE: Van Ling Talks Terminator 2: Judgment Day on Blu-ray

Enjoy

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Zolly, what happens when you adjust your display so the THX patterns are not washed out? Just wondering...

V

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Bill Hunt now says the Skynet version is superior after taking a closer look.

The Digital Bits: Celebrating Film on Disc - DVD & Blu-ray

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I agree, the skynet version looks better to me.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I picked up my copy of skynet yesterday. I would say that its a great improvement over the other disc. I like the extras and also the design of the main menu. I have heard from others that people with only 1.1 profile players are having problems with the internet connection. I have two players that can do the internet bdlive and also having some trouble connecting. I thought perhaps van could check into it. perhaps it was a overload from many people buying the disc and checking it out.

the trailers are in HD. look great.
I would recommend it.
Jacob

PS. another fine job with the blu ray release.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

When I watched my UK Skynet BD when I did infact have it (waiting for the official street release now), I noticed what Bill Hunt mentioned straight away.

the original Lionsgate BD had alot of edge enhancement, or as Bill put it, alot of sharpening done it. Some of the scenes inside Cyberdyne looked naturally grainy, yet, on the original release, there were halos and artefacts everywhere.

Upon purchasing the original UK Optimum BD, I noticed quite a big step up in quality, but I swear the color tone was slightly off. It was a little bit washed out, but it was a fairly strong release and had a nice DTS-MA audio to boot.

When I got around to watching the Skynet version, the one thing that I immediately noticed, was the improved color. the film's night blue hues remained blue and didn't steer towards purple as it did in the Optimum release. Some of the shots which I thought were cursed on the Optimum BD had been corrected and seemed less distracting. I did notice that some shots had a slightly more soft look to them, but never to the point where it was completely robbed of detail and I certainly didn't experience any "clayfaces".

I still stand by what I said....I don't know how good the Japan Geneon BDs are as I never purchased them, but out of the original Lionsgate and original Optimum BD releases...Skynet is still superior in my opinion and well worth the money you can get it for.

I was bit shocked when I came here to check this forum and saw a number of people disappointed and basically slamming the disc. It's probably the best the film is going to look until/if Lowry restore it for it's 20th Anniversary, and like Van said, even if it is carefully and passionately restored and supervised and approved by Cameron himself, you're still gonna get people complaining about how they're unhappy about *insert-specific-aspect*.

You just can't please everyone it seems.

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I agree and don't usually complain about a disc I've never watched (mine arrives today), but from what I've read, this disc automatically tries to connect to the internet.

Why,oh why, do that? How many BD users even have an internet connection? I don't. Why add more load time to the disc, make it a menu selection as every other BD Live disc has. I know of no other disc that does this.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I've been clinging on to my Ultimate Edition for years so this is a significant improvement in just about every aspect. If a tad of DNR was applied or is a result of the codec used, so be it. Looks very nice to my eyes. I'm not a big film grain nut so I won't be crying if any of it was removed. It's nice to have the three versions in High Def. The Special Edition scenes are better integrated on this disc. In certain shots on the old DVD you could see the jump where new footage kicked in. Most notably was the shot where the T-1000 is walking in the factory and he gets stuck to the yellow/black railing. No matter what player I view this on there was always a few dropped frames where the seam was in the middle of the shot.

Anyway, great job on the disc, Van. For 20 bucks I couldn't be happier. It's also worth mentioning that it comes with a 50 dollar gift card for sideshowcollectibles.com. Now, if you could just call up LucasFilm and let them know that you are interested in re-visiting 6 of their titles for the Blu-Ray format, I'm sure a few people would appreciate it.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

After reading Bill Hunts post from 5/19/09, I had a thought. Maybe it is the Japanese edition that everyone seems to like which had some sharpening filter applied, and the master used for all of these releases is actually well represented on the Skynet edition. That master may have less grain/noise and be a little softer than people are expecting. The fact that I can spot light edge halos, one of the big artifacts of sharpening filters, in the Japanese capture, also makes me wonder.

To explore this, using screen caps from DVD Beaver, I applied some EE/Sharpening filters in limited amounts to the Skynet Edition frame, and was seeing results that looked very close the the Japanese screen capture of the same frame. It was not exact, and some softer, but still in camera focus areas were never gaining any "detail", but I imagine the processing they use takes advantage of neighboring frames and is a bit more sophisticated than what is available in GIMP. Out of focus objects and the sky were starting to look quite similar to the Japanese screen capture.

Of course, heavy application of the filters creates very obvious artifacts, but with light application, I know I would not be able to tell if the detail I am seeing is real or fake.

What are the telltale signs that the detail in the Japanese release is real, and that the noise is grain as opposed to sharpening/digital artifacts?

My time is limited now, so I can't compose and post illustrative before/after/Japanese comparisons at the moment.


I thought that some sort of detail loss was just a fact of any lossy compression algorithm, AVC included. If DNR is used only to the extent that it becomes less deteriorating than the compression artifacts that would result if it were not applied, I might call that good mastering. I think the better the compression algorithm and the higher the bitrate, the lower the extent of DNR needed to achieve that proper balance.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I still prefer the Optimum encode. As I've said in previous posts, there's loads of texture and detail in the Skynet but there is an immediate sense of softness too. Notice I've never said anything about DNR, just that I'm seeing a slightly softer image to what I'm used to.

Even if that sense of softness is simply my brain crying out for the grain (or indeed noise) that permeates the Optimum encode, I'd rather have what's pleasing to me. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where the many, many, many releases of T2 come in handy.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Thanks to everyone for their kind words and support, even if you prefer an earlier transfer! I am still working on getting more info so that we can all understand the processes that make this a complicated issue.

Johnny, one of the reasons that the disc checks for an internet connection is that BD has the capability to do a VFS (virtual file system) to modify the BD-J applications we put on the disc; this allows us to add functionality or do fixes as desired or necessary. The disc also does a player benchmark test at startup in order to determine what Profile player is being used, so it can adjust some menu graphics complexity issues as necessary; this is designed to allow faster Profile 2.0 players to take advantage of their additional capabilities without forcing earlier/slower players to try to choke on that higher level of graphics (that's the intent, anyway!). If that initial check for player performance and connectivity does not find a connection, it says so, and uses the existing apps on the disc itself; if there is a connection, it will check the server to see if there are any mods to be downloaded. This is a separate function from the BD-Live Skynet Access application per se, and shouldn't take that long to download if it is necessary.

Hope this helps,

V

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Hello Sir.

I have the Scandinavian Skynet disc here, but have yet to open it. Is the implementation of the online features different for non-US releases? Will all the updates etc. be available for us across the pond as well? I would assume so. Playback will be on a Region B PS3, so I don't expect any problems, mind.

(Also noted that my disc is labeled region A, B & C, while the domestic US disc has been confirmed region A only.)

Thanks.