Terminator 1 & 2

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Yeah, that one. The extras were great.

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I'm sure the next time T1 comes on Blu, the mono mix will be included, (hopefully in loosless format too ?), the original mix kicked arse.

The MGM T1 DVD was great, but a bit too hotly contrasted for my taste, resulting in some burned whites in several shots, that were OK on the old THX Image master.

If Lowry is redoing T1 from the negative, it's fair to expect the movie will never have looked better, witness their restorations for the early Bond films. I can't wait

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Lowry are indeed amazing with their restorations. I have full confidence and faith in them. the early Bond films, Indiana Jones trilogy and *mostly* in the Original Star Wars Trilogy.

I have no doubt that the Mono track will be included in the next BD incarnation of T1. people have been requesting that for years and I think it's sort of reaching the point where people are getting tired of hearing about it.

if Lowry are working on a restoration for T1, I can't imagine the film ever looking better than what they'll do with it. I hope Aliens gets a restoration too, the previous incarnations of it have left somewhat more to be desired, but that's a different topic altogether.

I HATE the idea of re-doing T1's effects. I'm not a purist by any means (I view Blade Runner's FINAL CUT as the DEFINITIVE, BEST version)

if anything like that were to ever be done to T1, then I'd like the choice to view the "new film" with the new CG, sound effects, etc. AND the original, unaltered film. kinda like a Close Encounters/Blade Runner set where all the different versions are supplied.

but really, I just don't like the idea of tinkering with films just to make them look more "modern". Lucas' changes don't bother me as much as some because as much of a fan of Star Wars that I am, I'm not an obsessive fanatic, but to flat out refuse to give the fans decent versions of the originals and try to replace them with the "newer" versions and trying to pass them off as the *only* versions, kinda angers me a little bit. Okay, I'm done ranting.

I'm very excited for the T2 Skynet Edition BD, especially that it's already available for pre-order in pretty much every single UK website. I pre-ordered both the standard Skynet Edition and the Endoskeleton head versions (yeah, excessive, I know). I can now officially trade in my UK T2 Ultimate DVD and my US Extreme DVD.

say Van, have you seen the new T1 print? I know you mentioned you're doing some work for the BD, but I'd feel alot more at ease knowing that you've seen it. can you tell us anything about it?

MGM have a pretty shifty track record, I still don't understand why they put out such a mediocre release of Robocop on BD.

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Will, I have not yet seen the new T1 restoration yet; it was done through Lowry under the supervision of Lightstorm's people (my successors) and is awaiting Jim Cameron's review. So I have no doubt it will ultimately be released the way Jim wants it done.

You guys all know that the original T1 mono mix was on the T1 Special Edition DVD that I did for MGM back in 2001, right? So it's not like it's never been out there...but I will certainly be fighting to make sure it's on the next BD as well...

V

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awesome!!!

i'm looking forward watching them again hopefully the trailers will be finally presented in oar and in stellar quality



don't forget the thx laserdisc done by image entertainment. there is our lossless source: glorious pcm 2.0 mono

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Speaking of Star Wars on Blu-ray, oh nevermind. I be back to talk about that in 10 years.

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haha, judging by what Lucas has done in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if Star Wars on Blu is still another 5 years away.

I'll keep my fingers crossed....but I won't hold my breath. There any many more films out there that I'd like to see on Blu before Star Wars.

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I get the feeling that it will be sooner than people think it is. I will be bold and predict 2010, since Indiana Jones is coming THIS year!

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If you take the fact that Lucasfilm apparently released something every year since The Phantom Menace on dvd, you might be right.
The bigger question is: will it be simple ports of the previous Trilogy Boxset, or the Mega Super Box that's been rumored a long, long time?

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Given that LFL is a shrewdly business-oriented enterprise, I reckon that they base their release decisions on a larger plan for overall impact. They do want something out every year, which is why they have Clone Wars now... but I don't think they will be releasing SW on BD until they feel the format is in enough homes for them to make a killing on it.

Just my two cents,

V

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yeah, that's how LFL have always played it. I mean, Indiana Jones didn't hit DVD till 2003 and the Original SW trilogy didn't hit DVD till 2004. almost 10 years after the format was released.

I can't recall *exactly* when the DVD format hit, but it really didn't start taking off till 2000, atleast here in the UK anyway.

I think my family bought a DVD player in 1997 but we had the same 5 DVDs on it for about 2 years till they became a little bit more affordable.

I can't see LFL getting the WHOLE SW Saga out on Blu till probably 2011 and even then, it's slightly optimistic on my part. I'm sure that the big Clone Wars series Blu boxed set planned for a Q4 release will play a part in how LFL proceeds Blu wise as will the sales from the Indiana Jones trilogy.

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Then your family got one the year they came out -1997.

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thanks man. I kept thinking 1996 for some reason, but 1997 seems about right.

I must say, I am quite shocked at seeing the Indiana Jones trilogy on Blu so soon, (Bill Hunt gave a tip about it being in the pipeline for later this year), but I suppose the fourth film really helped raise alot of eyebrows and questions as to why the first 3 weren't released with it. I have no doubt that Spielberg also being a fan of the format helped too.

I think Lucas is definitely testing the waters with the Clone Wars Blu box set (also mentioned by our Bill Hunt).

from a business standpoint, I can understand why LFL wouldn't want them released till he could potentially make as much money from them as possible, but this is Star Wars, and let's face it, in the year 2009....Star Wars is pretty much a house hold name. I'm quite sure that hundreds of thousands (hell, even millions) of people would buy a BD player to be able to own the Star Wars saga in HD (more so if LFL actually provided the ORIGINAL versions too, but that's just wishful thinking on my part...)

anyways, with the release of McG's Terminator Salvation, and I hope you don't mind me asking you this Van...

what did you think of T3? and how do you think Salvation is shaping up thus far? I can understand if you'd rather not say, but I'm curious as to how you feel about both films considering you've had involvement with T1 and T2's releeases for what seems like an eternity and you strike me as quite a big fan of them. I'd like to hear your take on things...

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Well, let's put it this way: I'm a bit peeved that I didn't hate T3 as much as I wanted to! ;-)

That said, it was pretty weak and had a lot of problems, and of course I only consider the first two films to be legitimate "canon" for obvious reasons... a view that the TV series also takes, apparently. I have to catch up on Sarah Connor Chronicles, as I haven't watched it since the first season (Quick pros: some interesting story concepts and Summer Glau! Quick cons: Lena is no Linda (not her fault), and the moment you allow so much time travel into the story, it cheapens the conceit).

As for Salvation, I was happy to hear that Bale was on board, which gives me hope... but my expectations went down a bit when I saw that Transformers-sized Terminator in the trailer. So I'm reserving judgment (day) until I see it.

V

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I must be honest here, when I first saw T3, the crane chase blew me away. it was really well executed...but everything that came after that just didn't live up to what was essentially, an exciting action set piece.

I hated the tone - sometimes it tried to be serious, then all of the sudden, it exploded into an outburst of camp. almost as if it was trying to be a comedy. the humour in T2 was subtle and actually funny. in T3, it was overkill.

I don't understand how a "professional production" had such ridiculous, elementary mistakes.

John being 13 during T2?
the T-800 all of the sudden being a "T-101"?
Terminators being tons heavy

the storyline contradicted everything that was established in T1, T2. those films were about hope and change. We can make the best of ourselves if we can go back in time and change things. We can prevent certain destruction and we certainly can have hope because "the future is not set, there is no fate but what we make".

T3 basically craps on that and says "uhhh...actually, NO. Judgment Day IS INEVITABLE and you can't EVER avoid it, only post-pone it". it's cheap story-telling as was the bomb inside the slightly upgraded "T-101".

The T-X wasn't half the villain that Robert Patrick's T-1000 was.

what I loved the most about T3? the ending. haha, no, I don't mean it like that (well, sorta), but more as in...it had a very powerful ending. the missiles going off and destroying everything. John's voice over and the last shot of the film being that of the endoskeleton head. I thought it was slightly tacked on how they left it open for a 4th, but at the same time, I liked it because I've always wanted to see how it all played out from the beginning, before Kyle Reese was sent back through time, etc.

Terminator Salvation looks promising, I think the "Human Harvester" (aka the 'Transformer' robot) is somewhat...unoriginal, but depending how it's used, it could work. Bale brought alot of credibility to the project in my opinion, it's what drew me in also. I think director McG may have something half decent in his hands. I don't want to expect too much, so I'm setting my expectations accordingly. I don't see how it could be worse than T3, but we'll see.

I generally don't consider T3 to be "canon" either, but more of a "what if". It's one film that I'll never add to my collection.

The Sarah Connor Chronicles really surprised me. I thought how they time-warped to our present was slightly cheap. Summer Glau definitely steals the show though. I have only seen the 1st Season. I'm not a fan of TV at all, so I took a risk and bought the BD when it came out. I love how it develops it's own continuity and completely (and rightly) ignores T3 altogether.

I agree with you also on the time travel part. I think the writers have already worn out their welcome in terms of how much time travelling can go on in the show. I must say the episode where we see Derek Reese's future via flashback was definitely one of the best. the T-600 with the rubber skin brought a huge smile to my face.

I hope TS truly is a Salvation for the franchise. I couldn't bare another T3.

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I think T3 is awesome if you dont compare it to the first two and consider it canon.

When I consider it on the level of not being a Terminator film, I think its great.

On that note, Im not expecting much from Salvation but to be a good popcorn flick.

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I understand your views Merrick...

I don't always believe that films in a franchise should be compared to other entries in that same franchise, but at the same time, you have to keep up the same level of integrity that the previous films in said franchise had.

You can always make changes and do something entirely different to what was there before, that's perfectly acceptable, but you have to keep the bar up high if you're hoping to top what was done before, you can't lower it all of the sudden otherwise you're cheating the fans.

Even if you weren't to compare T3 to T1 and T2 and look at it as it's own film with it's own merits...what do you have?

a very choppy story about time travelling robots trying to kill/protect 2 very underdeveloped characters. I've only ever seen T3 a few times compared to the thousands of times I've seen T1 & 2, but I must say the only reason I cared for John Connor in T3 was because of T2. you identify with the character because you know what he's been through.

I'm trying to look at T3 from the point of view of somebody watching T3 for the first time, who hasn't seen T1 & 2. I still don't think the character development in that film is good at all. even Arnie seems quite disposable. I think the most important thing in a series if there's a change of crew/director is to keep the tone consistent. T3's tone was all over the place and never really felt like the director had a clear vision, but just went with what he felt "worked" at the time.

My fellow T3 fans, please don't get the impression that I'm slamming T3, but even the biggest T3 fan has to recognise that T3 is a very flawed film. I am simply offering my opinion and as such, I know it is not a fact.

While thinking about T3 just now...and this has only just occured to me...

exactly how is it that John, Kate and the "T-101" (haha, sorry, couldn't resist) enter Cyberdyne? the T-X comes in, morphed as Kate, then all of the sudden, the Terminator comes in shooting the place up proceeded by "she'll be back". but how did they get in? did the Terminator knock?

"hai, aim heer tuh seeh Robat Brustah"

"sure man, we'll just buzz you in"

I don't know. I just thought it was a bit lazy how it was never shown how they got in.

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I don't want to derail the thread with griping but that's exactly what I hated about T3 too.

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As far as I'm concerned, there are two Terminator films, the rest is fan fiction. That being said, non-canonical stuff can be plenty of fun but T3 wasn't it. Not for me anyway. I might have walked out of the theater had I not been at a drive-in. The sad part was that I really wanted to like it.

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Note to Will: T3 actually DIDN'T get the Terminator naming convention wrong per se. Arnold is a T-800 Model 101, which means he's an 800-series infiltration unit, and his model number indicates his external appearance... all Model 101s look like Arnold. Presumably, a Model 102 would look like Franco Columbu (or whomever), and so on...

In fact, my understanding is that they changed Arnold to a T-850 (basically a revised and updated 800) to allow them to add capabilities like the removable power cell bombs and also to avoid potential infringement on T2's nomenclature. Calling him a "T-101" is just lazy, although some have made a case for it (see the Wikipedia entry).

Man, we fanboys can waste a LOT of time trying to retcon justifications! I find myself doing it way too much... ;-)

V

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Yes, according to this movie, we are all long vaporized by now. That's the reason why the story of T1 and T2 still works for me: we HAVE survived Michael Jackson's 40th birthday because Sarah, John and the T800 saved the day.

For me ,T3 is mostly a silly joke, which only partially works thanks to what has been established by its predecessors.

I have the feeling that while the producers were watching T2, they decided to pick the funny aspects of it as an excuse for constant over the top cheesiness in T3. T2 has lots of funny moments, but they are very deliberately placed so that they don't distract too much from the serious story of the film.

For example: in the end sequence of T2, we see the T1000 screaming, which is one of the VERY FEW scenes I think are contrary to what James Cameron established previously, because so far, Terminators do not have emotions. Of course, what do we see in T3? Kristanna Loken doing all kinds of silly emotional responses to her environment (ANGRY SCREAMING for the sake of ANGRY SCREAMING, not for messing around with the psyche of her victims). Well, after all, she is a woman, huh, huh, huh.

I just love how James Cameron says something to the extend of "How does that sound compared to "she'll be back!"?" on the audio commentary of T2, close to the scene when Arnie says: "Stay here, I'll be back.".

Which brings me to: for me, you guys can SCRAP ALL EXTRAS, what T1 REALLY needs is an audio commentary by James Cameron! And a tribute to Stan Winston....

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So, many people apparently hate T3 because Judgment Day happens, saying 'screw you' to the first two. My question to people who feel this way: Do you plan on seeing Salvation, which takes place after the events of 3?

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I do plan on seeing Salvation but I don't look at it as a 'real' Terminator movie since James Cameron isn't involved. It's one thing if the characters couldn't avert Judgment Day (even if the real reason that they can't stop it is because a movie studio wants to make more money from another movie) but it's another to say that it's inevitable and the core message of the first two movies is wrong.

Overall, I'm keeping an open mind and just hoping that it's a cool action movie.

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If Judgment Day could be averted, it would create a time paradox, which would also screw up the first two movies. So essentially, Judgment Day has to happen.
I sort of liked T3. Of course it's nowhere near the first two, but I wasn't expecting that.
It got John Connor's character totally wrong, and it doesn't make sense that they would send a terminator to him three times, and still didn't get to kill him. The ending was cool, though.
T4 is beginning to look good, with Christian Bale on it and everything, but on the other hand, it's still directed by McG.
Overall I'm beginning to get much more hyped to see Avatar, and there hasn't even been a teaser trailer out for that one.

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Technically, only the T-1000 was specifically assigned to find John himself. The TX was supposed to kill John's Lieutenants since he couldn't be located. When she found John's blood, it then activated an alternate mission to get him.

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Wow, you can guess the impact Terminator 3 made on me . Thanks for pointing that out.

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i wouldn't say that the power cell is a new feature. it's a basic feature that they can exchange the batteries just like we can do today on laptop, etc. remember the exploding battaries from sony on apple notebooks a few years back? that small battery made a huge damage. now compare that to a power cell a terminator would use that can hold up to 100 years. so the explosion could make some sense

as for which is the best one of the 4 film... well, it always will be part 1. part 2 is just a remake with some sequel parts. there are too many same/similar scenes from the first part, that makes look like a remake. a good one nonetheless. part 3 was just unnessary and makes the first 2 parts obsolete as the time travel thing doesnt work because the time line has changed. too many problems if you look closer. example: judgment day was pushed back a few years, hence it wouldn't match the things john and sarah know and so on...

let's see how part 4 turns out.

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Oh, and Oliver... be careful what you wish for... ;-)

V

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Thanks Van!

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All the time-jumping they've done has created so many alternate realities that nothing really HAS to make sense in the Terminator series anymore. Why not send back an army of terminators instead of one at a time? Why not send them back to kill John Connor's grandmother, back when human weaponry is even less sophisticated? Why not figure out that Kyle Reese is John's father, and send a huge battalion of Terminators to make sure he can't go back in time to impregnate Sarah? The moment they got away from the idea that the time travel was a one-shot-only deal, everything else pretty much fell apart. You'd go insane trying to make sense of it all.