Terminator 1 & 2

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

The Terminator was one of the first Blu-Rays I bought, but a faithful restoration given plenty of breathing space on a dual-layer disc would be enough for me to re-buy. Can't wait.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

RickardL, an approved HD transfer means whatever JC wants it to mean for him to sign off. Given his focus on Avatar right now, it means having to take the time to sit and watch the film and make notes (if any) about tweaks he wants made. He generally does not have the time to do this at all when he is in production/post on a show, so either he has to delegate the approval (not likely) or take the time.

Mike, this means that yes, it might hold up T1 as well. It also depends on whether or not the studio who owns the film will move ahead and use the last-known-to-be-approved master instead of a new one, just to get a product out by a street date target they want to hit in order to maximize sales (like trying to get T1 or T2 out in time for the release of T4). The studio has the legal right to use the last approved master without going back for the filmmaker's re-approval (or else a filmmaker could effectively prevent a studio from ever releasing a disc for a film they actually own), but often won't chance getting on a filmmaker's bad side over it... especially if they want to work with that filmmaker again. On the other hand, a filmmaker may have the contractual right to approve any HD transfer to be used for disc, but they have to do so in a reasonable amount of time, and understand that once it's approved for use, the studio can use it for whatever releases they want without going through the filmmaker as long as they do not alter the look of the transfer in any way (dirt cleanup paintwork is generally allowed, but running the approved transfer through a denoising filter is or a sharpening filter would generally mean needing a new approval).

Also, the official T2 mix is in fact the 5.1 EX we did for the original 2000 DVD with Gary Rydstrom and Lightstorm, so this is what I mean when I say the 5.1... sorry for any confusion. As for version preference, both the TH and SE versions are official and legitimate, and I can't speak for JC as for which he prefers (tastes may change after a decade!). For me, the TH version is leaner and faster, but the SE has more character and depth... so it sometimes depends upon mood as to which I prefer to watch (although as you can imagine, I've seen it way too many times already!).

There are plans afoot to do commentary for T1, but as you can imagine, that would take even more time commitment from JC than even approving a transfer...but never say never...

Will, I have no idea why anyone would want to change/add new effects for T1... it's like going back as an adult and rewriting your old high school essays when they already got you an A! Or putting yourself or your spouse through tons of plastic surgery to stay young-looking... I mean, who in the entertainment business would ever do such a.... oh, never mind... ;-)

V

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Thanks for the info. If only one version of T2 can be included on the disc, has it been decided which version that would be? Would it be Cameron's decision to make? Also, why was the theatrical cut (thankfully) chosen for the first BD?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

According to various rumors around the net, there are new versions of T2 coming in May (including a Endo-Skull version)...I sure hope you and JC are involved...

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This is excellent news, it means the movie will look the best we have ever seen including original theater prints ! I just hope they get to fix a little of the inconsistencies of the 5.1 remix.

As for change/add new effects for T1, no thank you. Terminator is kind of unique in Cameron filmography, because it's the work of a pissed off young man who wants to show he does have the guts to actually make a good movie (after the Piranha 2 fiasco). Parts of it's charm is that some of the effects are not that great, but that everyone including the public and the filmmakers got along with it, because the universe the movie showed and the characters were great.

If Cameron had made the movie with 25 millions dollars of the time (which is probably what it would have needed to be SFX perfect), it wouldn't have had the same rage, the same strenght. Probably they would have hired someone more costly than Brad Fiedel for the music, and the end results would not have been as pulse pounding or mythical. Same goes for the effects. I'm still amazed by the Terminator eye surgery scene or the future flashback scenes, despite them being a bit shoody in the effects departement, because of the concept of what they show. Sure we see it's not Arnie's real head with the eye socket, even his arm is clearly plastic when he repairs it, but at least, the filmmakers had the balls to put it on screen on the limited budget they had.

One suggestion I may have (tought it may be not practical on a legal standpoint) is to include a music only track, where the whole soundtrack can play unedited. Perhaps if there's a copyright problem, can it be just the music and effect tracks (ie no dialogues) ?

I also, like many others, have absolutely no idea who Tryanglz were except that Tane McClure was the singer, but I know they had some extra demos and mixes recorded for the film. Perhaps an inclusion in the extras would be nice ? They have a very dedicated cult around them now, due to their only recordings being for Terminator. One can't imagine the TechNoir scene playing without "Burning to the third degree" pulse pounding it, it made the scene perfect.

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No amount of tweaking will make T1 look like a modern film. Deal with it: it's a 1984 low budget movie. Fiddling with classic movies is one of the worst habits of modern Hollywood, and I hope that this almost 12 year old trend will die out VERY quickly.

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I'd suggest creating new frames (interpolated with the existing frames) is more of a restoration of intent, the same as creating new frames for undercranked silent films would be. But with Terminator, it was probably an economy decision - given that it would take all day to move the model a tiny bit, they probably thought to themselves "I bet we could get away with making the movement a bit more gross, and thereby manage to get the model filmed in less time". And, they were wrong. But they did get it done on time. Did they curse the final result? Probably.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

van, did you have ane involvement in the coming german blu-ray release of terminator 2? while this endoskeleton release has some collectible value i doubt it will not as good as the one you're working on with lionsgate. kinowelt will probaly use the same transfer they used for the hd-dvd which wasn't so good, compared to other blu-rays released so far. afaik the french canal + version is video quality wise the best so far.

and since we know that you are working with mr. cameron directly, i put my money on your release

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Just got the japanese T2 steelbook, and the SE edition is bloody brilliant.
The TC ain't as good, but it apparently have the original Dolby Surround mix as an extra, and features the original colors (from the early releases), makes it good as an archive, just like the Blade Runner extra versions.

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Hey Van,

Now that the Skynet edition has been announced for bluray, I was wondering if you could tell us if it has the hidden cut that was previously available on the Ultimate Edition dvd?

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Van-
Considering that IGN just announced the T2 release, can you comment on the transfer used?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Van: Just make it good, buddy.

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I will say that the trailer they showed on IGN makes it look VERY promising.

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it doesn't seem likely there is a different transfer.
doesn't cameron have to approve it if there would be a new one?

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

You guys should read more closely Van Ling comments a page back


There's your answer

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

No motion menus that give away scenes in the movie.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

if you've seen the ultimate and extreme edition dvd menus, which were created by van ling, you should know that there where no spoilers or scenes from the movie.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

I am getting this

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

hey Van, I was wondering...

I don't know if you have any say or influence in the decision, but is there any chance you could push for this BD to be region-free? I know Lionsgate don't ALWAYS region code, but they have done in the past. I would very much love to buy this as my Optimum UK T2 BD isn't exactly mind blowing. Not to mention, the studio would undoubtedly make more money from importers such as myself

I remember when I had to go out and buy a multi-region DVD player ASAP for my T2 Extreme Edition DVD (which was never released in the UK). I'd hate to have to run out and buy a region A BD player just for the new T2 BD.

as with alot of people, T2 is one of my all time favourite films and I would very much like to safely import this without hesitation. can you give any confirmation now?

thanks alot V. I have absolutely no doubt that you've done a killer job on this new release.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

If the BD is region free, perhaps it could be time to region free the extra DVDs included in the skull set too

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Oh, the optimism of youth...

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Come on Lionsgate, it's not like the region encoding will help preserve markets, this movie have already been released countless times !

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

David and friends: Lionsgate does not own the film, and only had the US Domestic home video license for T2. As a result, they cannot really just make the disc region-free without pissing off the actual owner of the film, which is Studio Canal in France. SC owns the film T2 outright, having bought it from Carolco Pictures when they declared bankruptcy quite a few years ago (for that reason, SC also owns Stargate, Total Recall and the Rambo films, among others). Apart from Lionsgate, SC licenses T2 to other licensees around the world, including Kinowelt in Germany, Optimum in the UK and Geneon (Pioneer) in Japan. More recently, SC actually BOUGHT Optimum and Kinowelt, and licensed T2 to Universal Pictures International (UPI) for all other international territories, including Japan; Geneon was bought out by UPI.

What this means is that Studio Canal can dictate a lot of what is done with what they own... and region coding is of course one of those things. To protect their separate licensee deals, they obviously don't want one territory to take sales away from other territories.

Hope this explains some of the machinations...

V

PS: Stay tuned for part 2 of my answer to the last couple dozen posts...

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Part 2: I reckon the good news is that Studio Canal has been collaborating with Lionsgate to try to produce a (generally) consistent worldwide version of this next iteration of T2 on Blu-ray, so that the same features are available in all regions, including the US (through Lionsgate), the UK (through Optimum), France (through Studio Canal), Germany (through Kinowelt) and the rest of the world (through Universal Picture International). To the Petainesque extent that I can, I have been working to translate many of my previous special features to Blu-ray and work with the good folks at Blink Digital here in the US and Sofatronic overseas in Germany to create some fairly sophisticated interactivity. Needless to say, this is a huge challenge due to both the programming and space limitations of the format (since I'm always trying to cram the disc full for you guys, and getting anywhere near the maximum limits really taxes the BD format) but also because there are very different requirements for the different combinations of territories and the commensurate amount of space they take up on a given disc. For example, certain territory discs have a lot more audio tracks for different languages than others, and under normal circumstances you'd encode the feature picture only ONCE at a general bitrate to fit on the disc with the highest number of audio tracks... but this means that for the territory versions with fewer languages on it (like the US disc, for example), you'd end up with a lower bitrate transfer and a lot of empty space. So we're trying to do additional encodes of the picture at a higher bitrate for those discs with fewer languages, to use all of the available space on the disc... and this costs more. The studio also wants the disc out in time to take advantage of the theatrical release of Terminator: Salvation, so that defines our deadline. So obviously, time and resources are a factor... no one gives me an unlimited budget or unlimited time, as I'm not Jim Cameron! But we are trying to build a pretty awesome and worthwhile disc.

And in recognition of what Kinowelt did in Germany with their swansong HD-DVD release, we have adapted a number of their features as well, working with those folks to include their trivia games and such. It's not EVERYTHING of course, since there is only so much you can put on a single BD without sacrificing the image quality of the feature too badly, but it's a fair amount. And Lionsgate certainly takes the argument of multiple discs to heart by including all of the other features via the UT2 and T2X DVDs in their Limited Edition set.

And yes, there is a THX-certified English DTS-HD Master Audio lossless track as the primary audio stream, along with Dolby Headphone, both existing commentaries, D-Box Motion COdes and THX Optimizer, as well as new HD transfers of the trailers. From a picture standpoint, a lot of manual dirt cleanup was performed on the existing Cameron-approved master and the decision was made to encode the film in VC-1, so I'd be interested in your feedback when you see the film on this disc.

And for Merrick, all I can say is I hope you remember the code! ;-)

So I hope you'll want to check out this disc and give me some feedback... as you know, I've always tried to push the envelope when I can, and am always learning new things about what the BD format can and can't do... and I rely on folks like you to let me know what works and doesn't work.

Thanks,

V

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

And for all the T1 fans, I am working on some new material for Blu-ray, hopefully to be seen later this year... ;-)

V

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

Hey Van,

Most of us accept the fact that T1 will never look like it was shot yesterday, but do have any comments on Lowry's restoration in terms of how much better it looks than the current bluray (which I feel looks pretty good in some parts actually).

Will we be surprised in that it looks better than expected?

Thanks for answering my questions. You're comments have been MUCH appreciated.

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Hopefully the new Blu-Ray release of T1 will include all the extras from the original DVD.

As well as the new ones that you're working on.

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original dvd?
that was released by image (hemdale) was non enhance and had zero extras.
it was also released in an odd slide out type of dvd case.

I still have it.

Re: Terminator 1 & 2

He more than likely means the original MGM special edition dvd.

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I hope they give us the original mono soundtrack on T1 this time.