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Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

#91
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9/18/08 at 8:03am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_S_H
Are we more critical now? Did people in the sixties say, "Meh. Last night's Bozanza was pretty poor. Little Joe was acting totally out of character, and Hop Sing was underused--and misused--as usual. I mean, really. Are we supposed to believe a Chinese cook out in the middle of the old west would know how to make Beef Wellington?"
I think you have nailed it, I believe that, in general, we are more critical now...

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#92
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9/18/08 at 10:33am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I never judge a new show based on its pilot, because I know pilots often differ in significant ways from the series they spawn. The very process of making a pilot, getting the thing from idea, to script to screen, often teaches the creators things about the show that they would never have known otherwise - and leads them to tweak things between the time the pilot is locked and the day shooting starts on the series.

Go back sometime and watch the pilots for The Cosby Show (shot on videotape with a different set, visual design and pace), CSI or M*A*S*H. Then compare episodes even five or six episodes into their first seasons. The difference is night and day. That's what experience does, and no matter how many other shows a production team has made, there is no substitute for actually making a particular show when it comes to learning how to make that show. This is why many shows air the third or fourth episode shot as the first episode (especially in their first seasons.) The first couple of weekly episodes on a series, or even in a season in later years, are a little bit of a shakedown cruise for cast and crew. (Some of whom may just be joining a show already in production.) Even shows with heavy continuity will often hold the script written to air first so that it is shot third or fourth, thus ensuring that the bugs have been worked out of the production system and the kick-off episode will be as good as it can be.

(Some shows take years to hit their stride. Star Trek: TNG - which had a dreadful pilot - barely rose above mediocrity in its first two seasons and didn't really find its feet until part-way through season 3.)

So far I find Fringe intriguing. I'll have a better idea what I really think of it when it has had time to develop a bit more.

Regards,

Joe
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#93
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9/18/08 at 10:35am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

To be fair, we can afford to be - there's more options and things have a much longer after-life than they did back in the day. It's more important for a show with serial elements like Fringe to do better because something that doesn't work this week can't be quite so easily be swept under the table and ignored as it could a generation or two ago.
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#94
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9/18/08 at 11:41am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelD
Having been raised in New Orleans, almost every movie or show that involves New Orleans does the same thing. Episode of Las Vegas, they have a "bayou" party two minutes away from New Orleans. K-ville had gumbo parties and the locations were all spliced together. Pelican Brief screwed up locations also.

And of course every single person I know speaks exactly like they do in True Blood.

You just learn to live with it, or get incensed by it

And on K-Ville, they were at the voodoo shop in either the first or second episodes. I was also kind of annoyed by the main guy saying, "We don't use Tobasco sauce" with a sneer. I'm not from there, but my mother is and she loves the stuff. It's a Louisiana industry, so it's not like it's some interloper trying to cash in on the New Orleans style.

Do you roll your eyes when people call it "Nawlins," like my mother does, or is it just her? She pronounces it "New Orleans," but says the colloquial form is basically "New Wallins" (my spelling, the way it sounds).
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#95
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9/18/08 at 11:57am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Yeah pretty much every restaurant in the New Orleans area has Tobasco, Louisiana Hot Sauce, or Crystal. (I am a Crystal person). Yeah you can tell people who are and aren't from New Orleans. Almost no one says Nawlins, a few say New Orleans (as in New-or Leeens) and most say New Orleans (New (W)or lins.)

I've lived in NY, DC, Atlanta, Austin for extended periods of time and every time New Orleans is presented as this party, bastard city, when in reality it mirrors many of the cities mentioned above. Excellent food, excellent music, great parks, great festivals, awesome architecture, and a ton of other things. We'll gloss over the political corruption, bad schools, terrible streets, high crime etc .

Anyway, back to the show, I am surprised Fringe hasn't pulled out hokey, fake Boston accents yet.
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#96
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9/18/08 at 12:12pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph DeMartino
I never judge a new show based on its pilot, because I know pilots often differ in significant ways from the series they spawn.
I agree completely. If some people want to have a 'one strike and you're out' policy, that's their business but I find it hard to judge a series based on its pilot.
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#97
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9/18/08 at 1:53pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

It's a good policy, but I think most people think of the pilot like a presentation demo. If they can't bring out the big guns and sell me right off the bat, I'm going to have to go elsewhere. The unfortunate casualties are shows like Journeyman. It's pretty much a consensus that that show got better and better as it went on, but it was too late as far as the general audience was concerned. To a lesser extent, the same was true for Invasion.

I actually liked the Fringe pilot quite a bit, and I like the characters. I was less thrilled with the second ep, but I'm sticking with it a while.
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#98
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9/18/08 at 8:51pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
I don't know about John Noble's character. He's certainly interesting, but did we really need that moment where he says "Woo. I just peed myself...Just a squirt"?

Didn't you see the commercial for the show? It's from the writers of Transformers!
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#99
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9/18/08 at 9:32pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

re: Anna Torv

I don't know if it's just me, some strange recording technicality, or if it's really happening, but I'm hearing her voice change during the course of the show, like she hasn't quite gotten an American accent down to where she can keep it up for an entire episode.
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#100
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9/18/08 at 9:38pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

She was on Letterman (re-ran last night) and I noticed the variation even in her native accent. It's like she's spent alot of time traveling to and living in different places, but it sounds like she's been living in Australia up until six weeks ago.

He was one of those people who would be neither a follower nor a leader, but only an aspiring heart, impatient in the failing body which imprisoned it. -- T. H. White, "The Once and Future King"

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#101
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9/20/08 at 1:45pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisR
I agree completely. If some people want to have a 'one strike and you're out' policy, that's their business but I find it hard to judge a series based on its pilot.
I find there are too many quality shows on TV and DVD to give a new show any more time than its pilot to grab me. If they can't pull it together enough for the pilot to be engaging, then I move on. It doesn't have to be perfect, or amazing, but it has to suggest a show worth watching. But I don't want to waste time waiting for a show to pull itself together.

And there's no risk today. If I prematurely mis-judged a show, at worst I can watch it a year later on DVD.

My wife is in your camp though; she'll give a mediocre show a full season (Bionic Woman, for example) just to see it through, and in the hope that it will pull itself together.

We'll see: I didn't bother with the first half of Lost because it seemed such a dopey idea, and since Alias had petered out at the end. That was a grand mistake, and I've since watched Lost with enthusiasm. I certainly hope for Abrams to bring more of his magic to TV.
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#102
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9/21/08 at 12:27pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I'm still not sold on this show.

Nothing about it grabs me or excites me.

I am going to give it one or two more episodes. Of course, once
I drop out the show will take off like a rocket.
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#103
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9/21/08 at 1:35pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

If that's true, please drop out before tomorrow.
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#104
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9/21/08 at 7:22pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Yeah it's a bit Dull isn't it, well since the season has'nt kicked in yet it's still on the DVR....
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#105
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9/21/08 at 7:36pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I'm sort of counting on the baseball playoffs to "cancel" the show from my DVR in October.

"Jee-sus, it's like Iwo Jima out there" - Roger Sterling on "Mad Men"
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#106
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9/23/08 at 6:10pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

They really need to check their stock footage. They had a great overhead shot of Fenway, but it didn't have any Green Monster seats.

come see the reviews at
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#107
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9/23/08 at 7:16pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

There was a voiceover about a third of the way in that felt really off to me. Like it didn't seem to match levels-wise or something, I don't know, made it feel unnatural.

And I'm glad they're keeping with the limited commercials thing, that's actually pretty refreshing to see. More shows should do it.
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#108
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9/23/08 at 8:56pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

More shows should give you an announcement of how long you have to go do other things while the commercials paying for the show air?

I'm betting advertisers are keeping this on a short leash for now to see how it works.

Studios, caption your internet streams.

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#109
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9/23/08 at 9:04pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I like it because it tells me how many times to hit "skip forward" on my DVR remote.

He was one of those people who would be neither a follower nor a leader, but only an aspiring heart, impatient in the failing body which imprisoned it. -- T. H. White, "The Once and Future King"

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#110
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9/23/08 at 10:26pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I'm finding it too convenient that all roads lead to or come from Walter.

He was one of those people who would be neither a follower nor a leader, but only an aspiring heart, impatient in the failing body which imprisoned it. -- T. H. White, "The Once and Future King"

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#111
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9/23/08 at 10:38pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco
More shows should give you an announcement of how long you have to go do other things while the commercials paying for the show air?

I'm betting advertisers are keeping this on a short leash for now to see how it works.

I actually don't care that its telling me how long its going to be all that much, I just like that the show is longer and the commercials are shorter.
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#112
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9/24/08 at 3:27am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
I'm finding it too convenient that all roads lead to or come from Walter.
I agree on this point though I found last night's episode the most entertaining so far.

Every man is my superior, in that I may learn from him.

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#113
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9/24/08 at 5:44am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
I'm finding it too convenient that all roads lead to or come from Walter.

So far, I'm a fan of the show, but even I must concede that point. Around here, we had the eye roll moment before the moment even came.

Studios, caption your internet streams.

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#114
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9/24/08 at 6:43am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_H
There was a voiceover about a third of the way in that felt really off to me. Like it didn't seem to match levels-wise or something, I don't know, made it feel unnatural.
Yeah, it was really horrible looping. They probably deleted a scene or realized what they had didn't make sense so they had to add exposition to clarify things for the audience.
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#115
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9/24/08 at 7:37am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Yee
I'm finding it too convenient that all roads lead to or come from Walter.
Actually, all roads lead to Walter and Bell, even though we haven't seen him yet. I forget how long they were supposed to be working together, but the pilot more or less established that Bell founded Massive Dynamic in large part on things he worked on with Walter.

(Also, the aerosol aerogel this week was not Walter-centric)

Pretty darn good episode, though - a couple clever/gross sci-fi devices, a little hint at what's going on behind the scenes. And, of course, a couple laughs at them trying to make some Canadian city appear to be Boston with outdated stock footage, "Harbor Transit" buses, and an odd-looking South Station.
Jay's Movie Blog - A movie-viewing diary.
Transplanted Life: Sci-fi soap opera about a man placed in a new body, updated two or three times a week.
Trading Post Inn - Another gender-bending soap, with different collaborators writing different points of view.

"What? Since when was this an energy ball...
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#116
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9/24/08 at 10:14am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma
I agree on this point though I found last night's episode the most entertaining so far.

If I didn't enjoy him so much (and John Noble is just fantastic), I would jump on this bandwagon. He is a barely camouflaged plot cheat in every episode. I had to laugh at his contraption 'hidden in the wall'. Wasn't it in his old car last week? When will they run out of hiding places?

I really hope they quit using this crutch and make Walter WORK to figure out what is going on.

The Bell connection is also ridiculously convenient. Clearly, Bell is our super-villain. As head of Evil Dynamic, he is behind the 'pattern'. I'm wondering what Bell will be? I doubt he's human any longer. I'd guess he has either figured out time travel, or is now an AI of some sort, or a mutated version of himself (self-experimentation gone awry), or multi-clones, or some odd thing. I hope they make it a good twist/reveal.
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#117
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9/24/08 at 4:00pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin
I'm wondering what Bell will be? I doubt he's human any longer. I'd guess he has either figured out time travel, or is now an AI of some sort, or a mutated version of himself (self-experimentation gone awry), or multi-clones, or some odd thing. I hope they make it a good twist/reveal.

Maybe he's a ghost named Jacob living on a small island that no one can seem to find...oh wait, wrong show...
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#118
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9/24/08 at 9:15pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

OK, I'm really starting to like this show (and my wife really liked this week's episode too). This of course means it is headed for cancellation. Unless Ron drops it to counter the effect.
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#119
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9/25/08 at 5:27am
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

No, sorry guys, the show will not be a hit since I am still watching.

Overall, I have not moved from lukewarm as far as the show is
concerned, but it is holding my interest somewhat. I think what is
working in its favor is that until more of my favorite shows start
returning, there is time for me to watch. If I had something better
to watch (LOST, 24, AMERICAN IDOL) I would have dropped this show.
In other words, it is still the bottom rung of the ladder.
Ronald J Epstein
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Email me at: repstein@hometheaterforum.com 
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#120
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9/25/08 at 1:37pm
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Re: Fringe - By J.J. Abrams

I love this show, it has a very unique atmosphere.

Anyway, what I wanted to ask: FOX hasn't picked Fringe up for anything more beyond the initial six episodes, or have I missed something? So three to go? ("The Arrival", "Power Hungry" and one with an unknown title)
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