Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

"Firefly" wasn't the first such release by a longshot. Off the top of my head I know "Clerks' predates the "Firefly" release by two and a half years, I'm sure there are many others.

The whole "TV on DVD" boom really started in 2000 when Fox released the complete first season of "The X-Files".

Ultimately, television is shot in this aspect ratio to fit 16x9 televisions and music licensing was definitely on the studio's radar in 2002. This isn't a show I'm interested in but it's definitely a case where I look at it and go "thank God this isn't something I was waiting for" because there's no excuse for this. Warner Bros. could have released this with 16x9 transfers and intact music but they took the cheap and easy way out and there's really no excuse for it.

It's not just Warner Bros. though. Paramount/Comedy Central recently released "Human Giant" Season 1 and "South Park: Imaginationland" a week apart, both with non-anamorphic widescreen transfers.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

True, you had these little limited-run releases back then ("My So-Called Life", "Sports Night", "Clerks", etc.)

At the same time, it wasn't standard operating procedure back then the way it is now. Nobody was thinking in terms of DVD releases for cancelled shows (It took the success of "Firefly" to really get the ball rolling.)

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

How do you know? We have Gord who is in direct contact with the studio about this relaying that this is, in fact, the best source material available for this release. Gord's been doing this for a long time now, so I'm sure he covered all the angles in his information. One day, perhaps they may find better source material. That day is not today, however. This show will never be released again most likely. Music rights plague just about all tv shows on dvd. That's the way it is and you can blame legal representatives for that not studios. If this show had not been cancelled and put away and, like with Smallville, they saw the likelyhood of a future dvd release then things may have turned out differently. That just didn't happen though, so, we got the best they had. It really isn't that unbelievable. I'm not sure why some are so convinced Warner tried to be cheap and screw the fans over. So basically some believe Warner said....."Hey let's release Birds of Prey on dvd. We'll pay some designers to give it a nice package, put disc art on the dvds and we'll even include the unaired pilot and Gotham Girls shorts as a bonus. You know what else? Let's do some cool menues with the comic book page feel to them. Okay. So do we use the 16:9 prints we have? NO! Let's search high and low to dig up some non anamorphic prints for this. Okay. Remember, the last thing we want to do is spend money"..... I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

I've read Gord's contribution to this thread, but I ask -- is his word the pure gospel on this subject? TravisR strongly feels so.

I disagree.

In fact, what Gord wrote was that he "was told they used the best masters they had available.... [A]pparently they don't have Anamorphic masters that can be used." Gord refers to they at Warner Brothers -- no names, no individuals taking credit for the hard work "search[ing] high and low for the material." TravisR's slavish devotion to Gord's explanation as the "official" Warner Brothers position isn't enough to satisfy my curiosity as to why Warner's has an Anamorphic unused Pilot included on the disk. In fact, nowhere on the disk packaging do they even indicate that what was available was substandard by today's practices. B-Movies from the 60s get Anamorphic releases, and I'm sure those original filmmakers did not anticipate the day of Anamorphic processing for quality DVDs. But this retail price of $39.98 -- more than half the price of a full Anamorphic release of Witchblade: The Entire Series (including the 2001 movie) -- would suggest that Warners is giving us top quality product.

This "don't worry-be happy" attitude is what allowed Universal to drop significantly in the quality of their DVD releases. Once a standard-bearer, Universal shamed itself with the use of inferior DVD-18s, pressings which have flooded this forum with petitions. Many television shows on DVD have packaging that lets the buyer know that what they see might be shocking in its quality -- that the masters available were the best they could find but less than optimal. Gord's unofficial disclosure is a far cry from that type of fair warning. No fault of Gord's -- Warners is guilty by omission.

I have nothing against TravisR, but I am insulted by this mind set that Gord (who, to my knowledge, is not an official spokesman for Warners) is the key justifier for their incomplete and shoddy product, and that no further explanation is necessary. I write this not as someone asking for my money back, or even as someone who doesn't appreciate Warner Brothers' awkward situation having to decide to forego what has become, by now, an expected practice by a major studio releasing one of their own New Millennium franchises on DVD. "Anamorphic" was an "extra" feature a few years ago. It isn't anymore.

And Gord did nothing to explain why Warners was so clumsy in their replacing of original songs from the series. So, while I respect Gord and am grateful for the service he provides us, that doesn't mean he alone can let Warner Brothers off the hook.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

Pretty much, Yes. He's earned the respect he's been given by a good many of us on this forum. His record speaks for itself as far as insider information. I can think of no time where he misrepresented facts. He only puts forth what studios tell him and if he does relay incorrect info from a studio he's quik to relay it back. However Jonathan W, since you disagree with the facts he's given us perhaps you could provide a few of your own. Tell us what your inside sources tell you in regards to the Birds of Prey dvd set? We're all waiting........

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

My sources say that the packaging should let us know that optimal prints weren't available.

Gord hasn't said anything about the music.

More to the point, Troy -- I'm not attacking Gord. I'm criticizing Warner Brothers, the company charging $39.98 for a DVD set and letting a lone voice explain major product deficits on this forum.

Perhaps you took my "don't worry-be happy" comment personally.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

It helps to just keep saying to yourself, "Cheap Network" ... "Cheap Network" ... "Cheap Network."

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

Slavish devotion? You said that you're sure there's an excuse and I pointed out that Gord gave a reason for the problem so I don't think that qualifies as 'slavish devotion'.

Gord has actually talked to the studio and that's the reason they gave him. Maybe it's the truth, maybe it's a lie but the info that Gord got directly from the studio holds alot more weight with me than someone just dreaming up a conspiracy theory and posting it on a message board.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

I don't doubt that the statement Gord was given from Warner Bros. is legitimate. I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm saying that their statement is simply unbelievable. Like I said, this show exists in this aspect ratio to be seen on 16x9 televisions. I know "The X-Files" and "Millennium" made this change in the '97-'98 season. The industry knew it was coming and started making the changes long before "Birds of Prey" aired.

I don't know, it's possible that the show may have been FILMED for 16x9 but the 16x9 transfers were never made. It's true that the fact that something is filmed in a 16x9-friendly aspect ratio doesn't guarantee that an anamorphic transfer exists (as any movie/DVD fan knows) but I don't find their "these transfers are the best we have!" argument for one bit because if what you have is unacceptable then you spend the money to bring it up to an acceptable level, and releasing non-anamorphic product in this day and age is unacceptable, period.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

I agree with your disagreement. Nothing I say here, or elsewhere, should be taken as gospel, unless I'm talking about myself I just tried to pass along some information I had access to; people are free to believe it or not.

I spoke to the marketing person working on the set multiple times, both when the set was initially announced, and since then, asking why it's not anamorphic. We posted a number of news items addressing the issue:

Birds of Prey DVD news: Box Art & Release Date Change for Birds of Prey - The Complete Series | TVShowsOnDVD.com
Birds of Prey DVD news: Update for Birds of Prey - The Complete Series | TVShowsOnDVD.com

And the "Standard Version" is visible on the rear artwork we posted:
Birds of Prey DVD news: Rear Box Art for Birds of Prey - The Complete Series | TVShowsOnDVD.com

And of course it's also on the back of the package. Warner wasn't hiding the format of the picture, and I think we did a good job addressing it on the site. The person I spoke to is the marketing person on the title, but their job isn't to locate the masters for the releases, that's someone else's job. I can't comment on whether it's possible to make an anamorphic release out of non-anamorphic masters because I don't know how any of that is done, or what the cost is.

As for the music being replaced, it's mentioned on the packaging. Warner Bros didn't have the budget for the release to license the original music; this is why the show hadn't been released until now.

Gord

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

The package for BoP says it's in Standard Aspect Ratio as originally broadcast. I'll admit that can be considered misleading if you're not savvy to home video release practices. For the average consumer who would buy this may be confused and expect fullframe. I'll give you that. The print presented is pretty damn good besides that though. As far as attacking Gord, you are dismissing what he's told us from his sources and saying you disagree. However, at no time do you provide facts of your own. That's all I'm pointing out there. Gord is the final word on tv on dvd for alot of us here. I'll say again, He's earned that respect from us. As far as "don't worry be happy" my attitude is more a "don't bitch and whine be realistic and grateful". I'll say this again as well, given what this is, a cancelled tv series that didn't even run a whole season and didn't get top drawer treatment in a vault, we are lucky to have this set. Also, alot of fans lobbied for this release to happen and all the complaints seem to disrespect the effort that went into even getting this release in the first place. I get the impression that many of the people complaining were not going to get the series anyway. This anamorphic issue is just a way for them to talk shit about it on boards. I seem to be reading people saying how there hugh fans of the show and couldn't wait to get it on dvd because they love it so. Then, they follow that with, "because it's not in anamorphic widescreen this is a pass for me now. Screw you Warners" or something simular to that. We'll, I believe that's a bunch of crap and if they were fans they would at least get it. Warners not going to re-release this set in an anamorphic widescreen based on the complaint that people would buy it if. What will happen is those that do want this show will get it and those that don't won't. If there are, in fact, many people who won't buy this show then we who do own it will have a collectors item on our hands in the near future. When down the road it becomes a collectors item and those who say to themselves, "I wish I had bought that when I had the chance", and now they have to spend hundreds of dollars to get it on ebay...Well, they can only blame themselves.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

It all comes down to money. Will their profits on the set make up for the expense of a remaster? You can never be sure.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

Maybe the show was produced on the cheap to begin with, shot 16:9, but no HD masters were made for HD broadcast? No idea, but if it never aired in true HD on an HD channel, maybe that's the case, it was always a matted down 4:3 analog master. The set is cheap, I got it for under $25, which is pretty good for a 4 disc set brand new with extras.

I blind bought the set after randomly catching a bit of some episode way back when, then never finding the show on TV to watch it proper. Look forward to checking it out.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

Troy, I appreciate you standing up for me, but I haven't felt attacked in this thread at all. Jonathan was questioning the information I was given, but he wasn't attacking me.

Gord

Gord is a great guy

TravisR originally said:
Gord has actually talked to the studio and that's the reason they gave him. Maybe it's the truth, maybe it's a lie but the info that Gord got directly from the studio holds alot more weight with me than someone just dreaming up a conspiracy theory and posting it on a message board.

Gord originally said:
The person I spoke to is the marketing person on the title, but their job isn't to locate the masters for the releases, that's someone else's job. I can't comment on whether it's possible to make an anamorphic release out of non-anamorphic masters because I don't know how any of that is done, or what the cost is.

Troy originally said:
The package for BoP says it's in Standard Aspect Ratio as originally broadcast. I'll admit that can be considered misleading if you're not savvy to home video release practices. For the average consumer who would buy this may be confused and expect fullframe. I'll give you that.

This is what I meant by not taking Gord as pure gospel. I'm sure there is truth to most of what Gord has been told by Warners. I'm sure he has relayed everything that was said to him honestly -- but even Troy admits that all this is of little use to the less savy consumer who doesn't read this forum. And Gord, whom I've said I appreciate and value, admits that there are aspects to this which he does not have information.

Troy goes on to say:
As far as attacking Gord, you are dismissing what he's told us from his sources and saying you disagree.

I disagree that his is the final word. That's all. If it was, there wouldn't have been all this interesting conversation.

As for TravisR, I have no conspiracies to declare -- I just think Warner Brothers got cheap.

Re: Gord is a great guy

They absolutely did - and I don't blame them. This is not a set that is going to sell a lot of units no matter how it's presented.

Are they losing some sales by not having it anamorphic and with all the original music?

Absolutely.

Would they sell enough extra units to recoup the costs involved if they made it a "perfect" release?

Not a chance.

Unfortunately, with the production costs involved along with the general market trends, they had 2 choices. Do what they did or not release it at all. IMO, they chose the lesser of 2 evils.

Birds of Prey ... more juice than I would have expected!

When I purchased this set, I had never seen an episode. I was just curious and I find the show is fun and the leading ladies are appealing.

It definitely has an audience.

As I write this, it ranks #42 in sales of Movies and Television DVD at Amazon, and it is sold out at all the Best Buys around me. It is also sold out on the Warner Brothers lot and the Borders down the street (although, being a Tuesday, restocking may be taking place).

I wrote before that I am sympathetic to the decisions a studio has to make when releasing a less-than-popular television series on DVD, but their timing was right and the units are moving. When dealing with something related directly to the precious and powerful Batman franchise, I expected better quality and care to go with the savvy release strategy.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

No problem. I just feel that what you do is a tremendous service to all who collect tv shows on dvd. All the back and forths between yourself and the studios on our behalf is awesome. Jonathan W originally used the "attacking Gord" line in a previous post and I was just responding under that.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

I want to be clear to all who read this thread, I love this show and it's release to dvd. I do not feel it is perfect, but, I do accept that it is the best it will most likely ever be. I am aware many are not satisfied with the release and have every right not to be. I do feel alot of what comes across seems to be knit-picking and seems unrealistic with regards to what was, is or will be available in the vaults at Warner studios tv release division. Representatives from the studio have spoken. The information they present seems believable. We all have seen this kind of move in practice many times before. I am grateful for the the decision to release the series rather than not releasing it. I think they made the best choice for all involved. Because, if they didn't release it under the criteria that it wasn't good enough, we would never get it. Then, everyone would be saying that they wished Warner had released it anyway, because they would rather have it that way than not at all. That's what really gets me.

Re: Birds of Prey ... more juice than I would have expected!

That's one of the reasons why we pushed for the DVD release ... we want OUR place in the franchise.


Personally, I didn't want Alicia Silverstone to be the last word on Batgirl.

Big fan of Jeannie

For me, Liz, Dina Meyer has become the definitive Batgirl/Barbara Gordon. As the most seasoned actress of the troika, she brings gravitas, sexiness and wit to a role that asks for a difficult balance. And she really looks the part. I appreciate the fact that Meyer respects the iconography of Batgirl and her acting does it justice, despite many quirky filming setups -- the camera is often inconveniently placed for the actor's performance but she always brings it. I love Emily Deschanel in BONES and Meyer's Barbara Gordon anticipates Dr. Temperance 'Bones' Brennan by three years.

Ashley Scott really has grown on me. She made Helena Kyle more complex than many of the directors appear to have anticipated. It's exciting to watch a talented actress grow into her role -- Scott found unexpected motivations that fleshed out Huntress beautifully. And, of course, she is gorgeous. It's her silhouette selling the disks to the uninitiated and she doesn't disappoint.

Rachel Skarsten was a true discovery. Lovely, smart, innocent but yearning for adventure. I think the only thing that hurt her was the insistence on making Dinah's maturation a difficult one. Her Dinah could have found conflict without all the tantrums. Nevertheless, Skarsten has the eyes of a star and I expect big things from her.

The show itself ran into a few unevenness issues, but one thing stands out -- the attitude. When Barbara Gordon explains that she is not bitter but grateful for her life -- that she looks to the future with optimism -- she won me. This optimism adds credibility to Helena overcoming her instincts to rip people apart and Dinah's desire to kill her mother's murderer. These women were training themselves for much more sophisticated journeys ahead and that is the shame of BIRDS OF PREY's short life.

Re: Birds of Prey dvd...some thoughts.

There's a VERY Long Wait for Disk 1 of the show and a Short Wait for Disk 3 on NetFlix (Maybe people are renting their favorite eps? )