It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

I'm reminded of the "Sign of the Times" segment on Nightline. After 25+ years of experience and background, two degrees, teaching hundreds of classes, probably millions of photos and so on, the ship has now officially sailed. The hobbyists (the ones who think they are Pros) have won and I am relieved, relaxed, but also a bit resentful. For the first time in my life (and I mean that more than you can imagine), photography is now officially a sideline. I have finally accepted the reality that Photography is barely viable as a profession. At least it has become that way in the last few years. Still, I will probably always do some photography, particularly for clients I enjoy working with.

I am now officially working full-time as Operations Manager for one of my old photo clients. It is nice to be in a growing field rather than a dying one. Here's irony for you. One of the employees is also a photographer who has given up on the profession (no longer full-time anyway) and who I've known for over 25 years. We worked at the same camera store nearly 30 years ago, and now I'm her boss.

What do I do? I sell tea. As a friend of mine said, "Tea is Good", which pretty much sums it up. It's a real contrast to photography, which had become rather annoying. I'm in charge of employees and general operations at theteatable.com. Hopefully Ron and Parker don't mind the shameless plug. The bottom line is, I enjoy it and I like having a somewhat stable life for the first time in years.

Re: It's Official. I'm not longer full time.

Good luck in your new endeavor, John. From your previous writings here, I know you have struggled with the changes in the industry. Hopefully you have found something that you can flourish with. It sounds like you are happy with the move, which is the most important thing.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Thanks Scott. It's interesting how you phrased that. My struggles with the "industry" are that this is not perceived as a profession anymore. People like Annie Liebovitz will continue to make five figures for a shoot and Denis Regie will continue to make millions on his seminars. In fact, he will probably do even better off the steady flow of hobbyists with dreams of going pro. The problem is, for most working pros in the real world, people expect half day shoots for $100. That is fine for those who are just looking to buy another piece of equipment, but it won't pay the bills.

I have lunch once a month with four people. A year ago we were all full time photographers and every one of us had been for at least 15 years. Now, only one still is, and I'm not sure she's exactly thriving. I'm reminded of something that photographer's husband told me recently. He is a musician and he had held some kind of seminar when a woman came up to him and asked how much the instruments he played cost. These are all custom, hand made acoustic instruments. He went through several of them and when he was done, she pointed at one which cost about $1,500 and said, in all seriousness, "I want one of those, but I only want to pay $50. Where can I get it for that?" Maybe the analogy makes sense, and maybe it doesn't.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

John, sorry to hear of your struggles. I know you and I have vastly different viewpoints on photography but I still sympathize with you and those in your (now ex) line of work who have struggled with the changes that the digital age has wrought.

It's not just photography, as you well know. I used to work in a company that made electronic flow controllers, and the simplest way to describe those are automatons that replace real people in factories. It sucks when you think about it but the world moves on with or without you.

And I'm not shocked at the story about the instruments, it's the walmartization of the world and frankly, the internet has helped many of us become insane bargain hunters, tho clearly there is a huge gap between getting cheap consumer goods and needing to invest in professional quality gear that most lay people won't understand or even appreciate.

Best of luck in your new career, and may you find in photography as a sideline some kind of silver lining to not being full time. Freed from the need to keep that income coming in, maybe it will allow you to see a different side of the revolution...

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Also, would this be a bad time to ask for some free tea samples?

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

I've never seen anyone talk to romantically about wires and circuits. I know I have expressed annoyance toward digital. Actually, it's not digital I have ever been frustrated with, but being forced by clients to live with its often unacceptable limitations because they insist on it rather then shooting film when applicable.

I have to keep reminding people that when the first electronic imaging equipment was invented (called "Still Video" at the time, which looks so amusing now), I worked for the company that invented it and I was THE go-to guy regarding it. I traveled all over the country providing education on it. I went everywhere, NASA, Apple Computer, I even spent several hours with the current President photographing him with various people. That is in no way to imply any affiliation. I was just doing my job. I thought it was a great thing. It never occurred to me it would virtually kill photography as an actual profession.

So Sam, I have this impression. In essence, by putting so much importance on circuits, you also seem to be saying you wouldn't be capable of doing this without the gadgets. I'm reminded of another HTFer who said a few years ago about the advent of DV and inexpensive editing and mastering software, that "Now anyone can be a talented filmmaker". Yes, I practically took offense at that. It's the word Talented that is the problem. The cheap equipment amkes it easy to try, but it does not make anyone talented. People keep agreeing with that, but their actions and words show they really do believe hardware is talent.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Just stumbled on this thread. Good luck in you present endeavors, John.

I like the musician anecdote, in my previous role as a technician I would encounter people who wished for me to impart 10 years of experience to them in an hour.

- Walter.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Ain't that the truth. Plus, for me anyway, they'd want it because they wanted to take business away from me.

Anyway Sam, you can have up to 5 free samples with any order, so stop being so cheap. If you order something and put a hello to me in the special comments, I'll throw a little of one of my favorite teas for you. Some of them get kind of expensive, but I'll do it since you're such a good bud.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

The analogy does make sense, John. In each case, a novice thinks that the better tool will suddenly turn that person into an artist. That, of course, couldn't be further from the truth.

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Egads not the hardware, its the software and people that matters! And the software has changed so that practically anyone can use a digital device, not just those of us who charted our careers around computers! Maybe not with the mastery of someone who does it as a career but more than I could have seen when I was just starting, thats for sure.

And technically I was in exactly that same boat with you, my future was envisioned around that seemigly assured future where those willing to read an infinite amount of arcane manuals and sub-human code were the ones who really knew how to make these silicon beasts tick, yet the world had other plans. Rather than lamenting the influx of 'noobs' I embraced it and revel in it. What can I say, I'm a 21st century digital boy, we roll with it. =)


No, it's more than gadgets. Still photography just happens to be the one area where this poor shlub happens to have some appreciation. Not talent. Not artistry. But it's one thing that makes me happy. I shoot for myself and myself alone and I'm not blind to the mess of things that the inexpensive gizmos and software (which have empowered me) have done to formerly viable careers. It's not that I don't care. It's that I don't believe that standing still in the face of the realities is healthy. I guess you can call me an evolutionist where that is concerned. If the river stops running you move to where there's more rain.

But given that, what I find infinitely more interesting is things in the macro view.

I like the tools, the toys, the hype. The uncertainty, the hope, the reality. The botched first efforts, the second and third runs at getting things right, and the elegant solutions vice the utilitarian. The competition, the sharing. The rants, the flame wars, the fanboys, the luddites, the people with an itch to scratch and the drive to make new products. ALL of it.

Digital has touched everything in at least some tangential way, so many things have changed in my lifetime and that the vast majority of people seem to either be blissfully aware of it, afraid of it, resistant to the change or some combination of the above absolutely cracks me up. I am of the last generation who grew up without a computer in every home and I have gotten to see that change. And despite that, we are just at the beginning of what is possible and what is to come. Again, it's not just photography, it touches everything that I find interesting. I drink this stuff in and love to think about where it's going to change our lives next.


You are never going to stop that, but you CAN at least guide them, a little! People see my camera and say 'ooh nice camera, you must take great pictures' regardless of whether I am able to produce pure trash with it or the greatest artistry mankind has ever known. I simply reply with 'you should see the pen I wrote my last novel with' or 'I hear you made a great dinner last night, you must have awesome pots and pans'. They kinda laugh and, for just a second, I think they 'get' why what they said was so silly. It's all about attitude.


Deal! When I get through this current box of Salada I definitely will. I don't go for those crazy superfruity herbal teas tho, I like simple black teas with natural flavor =) May pick your brain on those at that time.

Sam

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Oh GAWD. Well, at least it isn't Lipton, though it's not much better. Of course, you'll need some kind of infuser, since there are not many decent teas in bags. Don't sweat about choices. We have over 200 different loose teas, and I also don't care for most herbals. Some of the rooibos are pretty decent though. I also like plain black tea, but the treat you probably have never tried is Estate teas, which are the equivalent of a fine wine. The stuff you've had before are blends, but Estate teas are from one farm and can have very distinctive characteristics. My hands down favorite is Emperor's Red, with Yunnan Royal Golden coming in second. Look them up on the site.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Will do, thanks sir!

I don't dig lipton either, it tastes too watered down for me no matter how strongly you try to brew it. I like Salada tho, it's got a nice smooth taste to my barbarian palatte. If you think Salada's bad tho, I won't even MENTION the Starbucks iced black tea I'm hooked on =)

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

John, you must be some kick ass salesman. In just a few posts you've got me wanting some tea.....TEA! You sir are going to do just fine in this new career me thinks......just fine.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

On a scale of 1-10, Lipton is a 1. Salada is a 1.5, 2 at the most forgiving. Is that Starbuck's an unflavored, as far as you know? Now that I think of it, you're buying iced tea at Starbucks, and you want me to send you stuff for free? Something stinks with that. If you can try to describe the Starbuck's iced, I can give some vastly better suggestions. Some of the Keemuns are good iced. I really like the Imperial, and one of our wholesale customers goes through several lbs of Lion Mtn each month.

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I've actually spent most of my life in sales. First retail (photo, of course), then as a rep for Minolta. Plus, if you think being a Commercial Photographer isn't 98% sales and 2% photography, I have news for you. The fact is, I was always rather successful as a salesman. I just hated it, and I didn't have the "personality" (You've seen Tin Men?) Minolta wanted, plus I absolutely hated the job. Did I already say that? Still, the hard reality is on my last day working there I was 9th out of 42 salesmen.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

John, I wanted to comment on the above, but first let me say good luck with your new endeavor and that I commiserate with you about all the mixed feelings that you must be dealing with at the moment.

As far as the above, I find the attitude expressed above interesting. One of the things that I have "done" for the past fifteen years is run a media production company. I also have taught in some capacity/part-time for nearly 10 years. It is weird to often be in a situation where we are teaching future competitors and they often request business advice as they start out. I love to help them get started and am often a resource for them over the years. I love to seem them succeed. Occasionally we will lose jobs to former students and sometimes it is to the "lesser" ones who don't want to learn from your experience or advice. The strange thing is how many of those clients end up coming back to us.

DV and other digital advancements have democratised the process and I have no problem with that. In the past, talented people were often kept out because of the financial investment involved. Know there is an influx of people, distribution methods, technology that is pushing things forward. The more talented people that get involved in media should increase our chances of having better and better productions. Competition is key, but it takes more than talent. It also takes business acumen. Now you have to be talented, good at what you do and very good at running a business.

But it is a battle and if you've done it or anything for a long period of time, a change is often necessary. The ironic thing is that I have entertained thoughts of going back to my first love...photography. I would love to open a nature gallery, but I would obviously have to take on some commercial jobs to help pay the bills. Then I stumbled across this thread and read of your change and the sobering state of the industry. I wasn't unfamiliar with it, but it was still enlightening.

So tea, huh? I really love both iced and hot tea, but based on what I've read here my palette is not very developed. I'll have to work on that.

Again, good luck in your new endeavor and I hope that now that it is a "sideline" for you that you get to fall in love with photography all over again.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Excellent comments David.

Yes, the market for any photography, and possibly especially nature, is certainly tough. One of my clients is an art gallery here in town. The owner is a former full time photographer and he also represents a few other photographers. He has commented on how often he overhears people talking as they look at the photos in the gallery, saying things like, "but anyone can take a picture". It just doesn't occur to them. That is really the problem, perception.

Anyway, tea may seem like an odd change, but it started almost two years ago. This was one of my main accounts, and it can get tough finding enough people to make it through Christmas. Well, that also happens to be the same time commercial photography completely dies. The owner came to me in late summer 2006 and asked if I'd help her get through Christmas. It worked out well and is continually growing, while the photography industry is dying and my frustration with it is reaching critical mass. A new commercial building was purchased this spring to deal with the growth and the owner knew she needed someone to manage the employees and operations, while she deals more with customer service, purchasing and so on. That's where I came in, and it's a welcome change.

The irony of photography being a sideline is that I will probably, after a while, get my darkroom running again. I have an incredibly well equipped darkroom and I can and have processed and printed everything there is. I can do my own E-6 up to 4x5. Prints up to 20x24. Color, B&W, whatever. I may actually follow through on moving it to what is now a storage room, which is roughly 14x18 ft. That would be one awesome darkroom.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

John,

This thread has been a real interesting (and yes, sad) read. Best of luck with the tea bag.

(get it? tea is your new bag! never mind)

So, I'm wondering now, how you envision your future as it relates to photography. What will you shoot? (different stuff than before?) How often will you shoot? Do you feel you'll be looking at photography with new eyes now that you'll no longer depend on it to earn you a living? Will you garner any income at all with it? Are you pissed of at photography?

Jon

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles John. As much as I wish I could be a good photographer, I never will be and I know the true value of a professional.

I've seen the results of letting an amateur shoot important lifecycle events and would only hire a professional. It's more expensive, but at least you'll have those photographs at the end of the day.

I don't take my daughter to those mall photographers, because it's 10 clicks and you're done...no guarantee of even one good photo. The pro we take my daughter too took 190 shots over about 45 minutes and we spent nearly 2 hours narrowing down to decide what we wanted to print.

The pro I use is also struggling a bit, but he's still making it, because he shoots just about every type of photo need out there. I'd rather give him my business then some hack because I know I'll get what I want the first time around...and sometimes you only get one shot at it.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Actually, I am just fine with my new bag (thanks Jon). The truth is, photography has always been kind of a co-dependent thing for me. It's been 30 plus years of love/hate. It was my entire identity from grade school into college, but it got increasingly difficult. I know it sounds strange to hear someone talk about it as such a tormenting experience when virtually everyone views it as such a release. Like pretty much anything, if you go into it too deeply annd become too wrapped up in it, there will be difficulties.

So, yes, I definitely continue to do work for hire. I'm just very selective. There's no point to taking on a client who doesn't have any regard. Plus, photography is officially part of my day job as well. In the long run I hope to get my darkroom going again and get back to what drew me to photography in the first place. The great thing is I can get used medium format equipment dirt cheap now. I can really beef up my Bronica outfit if I want.

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My brother is still at it after 38 years. He's a press photographer. For him the digital revolution made some sense in that he can spend more time in the field and less in the darkroom. Plus the printing on newsprint and at the paper's website ignores any subtlety.

As a career however it still stinks. He's never made enough to do better than "just get by".

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Journalism is one area you have always been able to get a job in photography, though it has never made for much of a living.

Just to show the flip side, my college roommate from junior and senior year has turned out to be one of the two or three most prolific photographers of our class, which is saying a lot. People come from all over the world to study photography at RIT. From what I can tell, his only real competition is a guy from Denmark. It's interesting, because he is a very low key guy. In the end, he's really doing something.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Heh, I came to this subforum, cause I'm finally being dragged kicking and screaming into buying my own digital camera. sorry to hear you've had to move on John, I sympathize.

I like my Canon T90 and lens set up just fine for anything art related, but its bulky and too much of a hassle for snapshots and most family events. I've got some stunning family portraits naturally, but I think it's about time to move on to get something a bit more convenient than trying to fit my clothes around my kit in my one carryon when I head home.

But as for the digital revolution, I hear you, John. My brother and his wife hired an amazing photographer for their wedding six years or so ago. They took incredible portraits that were gorgeous and artistic, and they worked brilliantly with everyone, from little kids to seniors, and everyone was very much at ease during the picture process. They shot everything medium format, I remember watching fascinated as an assistant would swap backs and change loads because I'd never seen it in action before. The prints they got back are simply incredible, well worth it. My cousin was so impressed that four years later she had the photographer come in for her wedding, the experience was again great but talking with them I found they'd been 'forced' to switch to digital because that's what everyone, including my cousin, wanted. The aesthetics and quality (as photos, if not in resolution) of the photography were the same, but to me something had been lost in the prints I've seen.

Just recently, at my best friend's wedding, a sister of a friend of the bride was the official wedding photographer. She was terrible, she had a low level consumer camera and no lighting equipment. The pictures can be salvaged, but it was just sort of sad to see something that will be the primary memory of the wedding is tossed off as a spot where you can save lots of money. :shakeshead: I minored in photo in college but never had an eye towards a career, but still, I'm distressed at the decline of photography.

And I'm officially jealous of your darkroom, John. I'd love to be able to just do my own black and white, but being able to process your own color prints? damn. that's like a pipedream to me, I loved doing color in college, and wish I still had that oppurtunity.

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I've been to weddings with pro photographers ($5k-$6k for 1/2 a day, then you get to spend $$$ on pictures) who did not take great shots and who were not very good at the people end of the business either. I've also been to weddings being shot by an amateur and that person did a great job. IMO the most important thing r.e. special occasion photography is to check out the person's portfolio and actually call some past customers for references.

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I've got a dozen bags of Salada left so it's time for me to keep my promise! I just submitted my order for 3oz Emperor's Red, 2oz Yunnan Royal Golden and 1 oz samples of Nine Bend Black Dragon, Keemun Lion Mountain and Scottish Breakfast, plus a Tea Ball with Handle and a Mug Infuser.

Gave ya a shout out in the special instructions area =)

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Those are excellent tea choices. The Royal Golden and Emperor's Red are two of my favorites. They better be, since they're not exactly cheap.

I looked up your order and I'm going to replace that mug infuser with a Finum, which is a much better mug infuser.


Funny thing is, I'm drinking some Royal Golden right now. I normally make Emperor's Red in the morning.

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Cool deal, thanks much. That was probably the thing I wasn't 100% sure on since I have a decent cuisinart electric kettle here for the office but moving out of the 'bag' realm is new territory for me and no way I could use a teapot.

Edit: DO WANT:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2009/0...attack-te.html

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I've been sick so havent been able to try more than the Emeror's Red, but it is great! Thanks again sir.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

I found some of the sentiments in this thread vaguely annoying.

Re: It's Official. I'm no longer full time.

Huh?