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HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

#31
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7/8/08 at 11:15am
  • Joined: February 2001
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Davatchi
Are the 2 BD discs on the 2 sets identical?
Just to be semantically clear, each set includes one BD disc and it is the same on either set.

In other news, the BD and SD limited edition gift sets do not have identical physical extras. Details are as follows:

Common to both sets:
  • 3-D lenticular art that is visible through matted front of box
  • Five postcards with unused key art from Batman Begins
  • Movie Cash coupon worth up to $7.50 towards a ticket to The Dark Knight at participating theaters
Exclusive to the BD Limited Edition Gift Set:
  • DC Comics comic book adaptation of The Dark Knight Prologue
  • Booklet with exclusive photos, script pages, and storyboards
Exclusive to the SD Limited Edition Gift Set
  • 128 MB USB flash drive with Batman logo pre-loaded with eighteen promotional images from The Dark Knight
  • Additional DVD in square cardboard case with a two minute and sixteen second "Sneak Peek" of The Dark Knight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H
...
I'd like to hear RAH's thoughts on whether this title has been DNR'd at all...
As far as Robert Harris' view of the transfer, he assessed it very positively in this thread.

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

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#32
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7/8/08 at 1:42pm
  • Joined: October 1999
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden
In other news, the BD and SD limited edition gift sets do not have identical physical extras. Details are as follows:

Exclusive to the SD Limited Edition Gift Set
  • Additional DVD in square cardboard case with a two minute and sixteen second "Sneak Peek" of The Dark Knight

Ah, but--correct me if I'm wrong--the footage from this 2nd DVD is included on the Blu-ray disc proper.
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, \"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.\" I agree with the second part...
--Det. William Somerset, SE7EN

http://www.dvdanthology.com/Filmmaker-movielist.html), http://LDDb.com/collection.php?actio...user=Filmmaker
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#33
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7/8/08 at 4:25pm
  • Joined: February 2001
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Brashear
Ah, but--correct me if I'm wrong--the footage from this 2nd DVD is included on the Blu-ray disc proper.
Umm...you are wrong. The Blu-Ray has "The Dark Night Prologue" which is the six minute or so action sequence from the beginning of the film. The Sneak Peek on the bonus DVD of the SD Gift Set is essentially a two minute and sixteen second alternate trailer. It does give the first public glimpse of the Two-Face make-up, but it is fleeting - just a cheek and jaw from over the shoulder.

Regards,

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

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#34
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7/8/08 at 7:37pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

The prologue looked pretty sweet to me aside from the slight pillarbox presentation that I assume is from the IMAX format.

"Music is a magic carpet loaded with oils and other soothing potions, it's just what you need when you don't know what you need, when you've got more questions than answers." - Bob Lefsetz

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#35
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7/9/08 at 7:57am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

I'm a little disappointed in the transfer. Maybe the softness I'm seeing is the way it was shot (only saw it in the theater twice, when it came out) but I don't think so. It's not any one scene, it's the whole movie, doesn't look as sharp as many contemporary films on BD (yes I know each movie is shot differently). But in comparison the Dark Knight prologue looks way better than Batman Begins. Is that because it was shot so differently? Or does it reveal the weakness of an early HD transfer (like early DVD transfers didn't look as good as current DVD transfers). I understand this was a port of the HD-DVD, right? It's VC-1 encoding and hovers under 20MBps for most of the movie.

Anyone else feel the same?
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#36
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7/9/08 at 9:19am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
...But in comparison the Dark Knight prologue looks way better than Batman Begins. Is that because it was shot so differently?...

I can't speak to to the softness of the movie (it looked ok to me), but all of the Prologue's scenes were taken from the portions filmed with the IMAX cameras, which are 70mm. So I would expect it to look better.

"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."

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#37
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7/9/08 at 9:45am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina
I'm a little disappointed in the transfer. Maybe the softness I'm seeing is the way it was shot (only saw it in the theater twice, when it came out) but I don't think so. It's not any one scene, it's the whole movie, doesn't look as sharp as many contemporary films on BD (yes I know each movie is shot differently). But in comparison the Dark Knight prologue looks way better than Batman Begins. Is that because it was shot so differently? Or does it reveal the weakness of an early HD transfer (like early DVD transfers didn't look as good as current DVD transfers). I understand this was a port of the HD-DVD, right? It's VC-1 encoding and hovers under 20MBps for most of the movie.

Anyone else feel the same?

It's been a while since I've checked out the BB HD DVD, but this looks pretty good to me from what I've seen skipping around the scenes.

"Music is a magic carpet loaded with oils and other soothing potions, it's just what you need when you don't know what you need, when you've got more questions than answers." - Bob Lefsetz

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#38
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7/9/08 at 9:51am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs
I can't speak to to the softness of the movie (it looked ok to me), but all of the Prologue's scenes were taken from the portions filmed with the IMAX cameras, which are 70mm. So I would expect it to look better.
An IMAX frame is twice the size of a 70mm frame. I would expect it to look dramatically better than 35mm when projected at native resolution, but not expect to see a huge difference at 1080p on a 100" screen.

Regards,

Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

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#39
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7/9/08 at 9:55am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

FWIW, High Def Digest didn't seem to have any issue with the transfer:

Blu-ray Review: Batman Begins | High-Def Digest

"Music is a magic carpet loaded with oils and other soothing potions, it's just what you need when you don't know what you need, when you've got more questions than answers." - Bob Lefsetz

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#40
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7/9/08 at 9:57am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

My copy shipped out last Friday and will hopefully be here soon - I'm anxious to watch it. I had watched it previously on HD DVD, but that was on my older set-up and display (CRT RPTV). At the time I thought it looked slightly soft, but still decent. According to an old insider (cjplay) at AVS, he said to the effect the softness was in the actual master and not encode.

I'm curious how it will look on my BD30 and SXRD 60A3000 at 1080p/24. I'll post my thoughts after I see it (for what it's worth).
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#41
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7/9/08 at 10:04am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden
Umm...you are wrong. The Blu-Ray has "The Dark Night Prologue" which is the six minute or so action sequence from the beginning of the film. The Sneak Peek on the bonus DVD of the SD Gift Set is essentially a two minute and sixteen second alternate trailer.

My mistake. I was apparently misinformed (but tickled pink that the DARK KNIGHT prologue isn't less than three minutes).
Ernest Hemingway once wrote, \"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for.\" I agree with the second part...
--Det. William Somerset, SE7EN

http://www.dvdanthology.com/Filmmaker-movielist.html), http://LDDb.com/collection.php?actio...user=Filmmaker
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#42
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7/9/08 at 10:11am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

I just watched it on a friend's DVE adjusted 65" Mitsubishi DLP in full 1080p and thought it looked a little too soft as well, at least compared to the last two films I watched on his display: No Country For Old Men and The Searchers.
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#43
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7/9/08 at 11:44am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Should mention my equipment: Sony PS3 [fw 2.41] via HDMI to a Sony KDS-60A3000 60" SXRD RPTV, 2007 model. I sit about 12.5 feet away (which is a bit far for "optimum viewing" which I believe is 9-11 feet for my screen size).

I own ~80 BDs of a wide range of film ages (The Searchers through There Will Be Blood) so I'm well aware that some films look softer/different than others. I appreciate film grain and do not expect all BDs to look like The Incredibles or a video game.

I do realize the IMAX preview was shot on 70mm vs. the Batman Begins transfer, but as Ken says, that should make a dramatic difference on a big screen, especially if shown via the different film sources. However on my 1080p set, sitting 12.5 feet away, the difference should be closer than what I perceive.

Going from Batman Begins to The Dark Knight prologue harkened back to when I hadn't gone to the eye doctor in several years and my prescription had changed a full power. It was like the whole world took on a new crispness. That's the marked difference I see between TDK-P and BB.

Also, a lot of other BDs I have of films from 2003-2007 look a lot sharper than BB.

If the AVS insider says the softness was due to the master and not the encode, then WB should have made a new master, especially given how TDK is coming out. I don't want this to be BD vs HD-DVD or AVC vs. VC-1. We know that both formats and both codecs are capable of stunning transfers. This isn't one of them and if the master is to blame, they should have made a new one. It's not like the original film elements of Batman Begins are lost or in need of costly restoration.

Overall, it's not a bad transfer [see: Robocop], but rather a disappointing one, given the age of the film and what I've seen done with other films that are its contemporary on Blu-Ray.

[EDIT] : I see someone on p1 of this thread called the transfer "filtered"--while I'm not 100% certain of the technical definition of that word, it sounds like a good descriptor of what I'm seeing. Like the sharpness was lost while looking through a slightly opaque (or blurry) filter.
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#44
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7/10/08 at 8:17am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

I got a good chance to check this out on my primary set up last night and I have to agree with what's been said here...this transfer DOES seem a little soft for my liking. I would have expected it to look a tad bit better so as Carlos said, I too am a tad bit disappointed. However, the blacks are just plain awesome!

One thing I'm wondering though... I have a 47" Westy LCD in my secondary system that I previewed this on when I first got it. This set has been known to have VERY little or even perhaps no overscan, so when we watch regular TV, we tend to see the tops of the transmission when watching 4:3 material. So, when I watched the prologue, I saw a pillarbox on either left/right side of the image that I presumed was attributed to the IMAX format. However, when I watched the prologue on my primary system last night (56" Sammy DLP), the bars were not there. Has anyone else seen these pillarboxes???

"Music is a magic carpet loaded with oils and other soothing potions, it's just what you need when you don't know what you need, when you've got more questions than answers." - Bob Lefsetz

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#45
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7/10/08 at 8:34am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Reda
... Has anyone else seen these pillarboxes???

If you're seeing the full image you should definitely see pillarboxing.

"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."

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#46
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7/10/08 at 9:06am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Gibbs
If you're seeing the full image you should definitely see pillarboxing.

OK, cool. So my Sammy has some overscan then...good to know! Thanks, Zack!

"Music is a magic carpet loaded with oils and other soothing potions, it's just what you need when you don't know what you need, when you've got more questions than answers." - Bob Lefsetz

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#47
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7/10/08 at 1:23pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

We watched the Blu-ray of Batman Begins last night and it's a wonderful disc indeed. Image and audio are terrific as is the HD-DVD I own.

The audio is certainly among the best ever. My only nitpick is sometimes the score gets a bit lost in the action but not a biggie. Dialouge is very clear...

The TrueHD LFE channel is simply a wonder. We're talking it's a terror for any wall decor!

My guests were wowed and I just sat there with that confident smile that said: "it's what I do".

The IMAX prologue of The Dark Knight did indeed look very, very good. And the audio packed a mighty punch. The gunshots were frightening. Imagine this in IMAX?! or when we get the lossless track on Blu-ray.

An excellent disc all around.
Club Timobi Wan-Episode II
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#48
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7/11/08 at 5:25pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Question for you all..

Is anyone experiencing any issues with the TrueHD track? In particular when I'm bitstreaming from my BD30 to my 605 I noticed the TrueHD icon doesn't light up but does on other titles like 'I Am Legend' or 'Cloverfield'.

I know the default track is set to DD. Typically when I select the TrueHD track on other titles like the above mentioned ones the icon does light up.

Anyone else experiencing this issue? Perhaps I have a defective disc..

----
Brendan Surpless
Reviewer/Editor for HighDefDiscNews
A quickly growing news site maintained by 2 folks who simply love film in ALL formats.

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#49
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7/11/08 at 5:36pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo Medina

If the AVS insider says the softness was due to the master and not the encode, then WB should have made a new master, especially given how TDK is coming out. I don't want this to be BD vs HD-DVD or AVC vs. VC-1. We know that both formats and both codecs are capable of stunning transfers. This isn't one of them and if the master is to blame, they should have made a new one. It's not like the original film elements of Batman Begins are lost or in need of costly restoration.

Are we sure that the softness is in the master and not a possible digital intermediary?

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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#50
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7/11/08 at 6:36pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover
The audio is certainly among the best ever. My only nitpick is sometimes the score gets a bit lost in the action but not a biggie. Dialouge is very clear...

I noticed that about the film after getting the score. It didn't impress me in theaters but I liked it a lot by itself. On repeat viewings I found that the score was always drowned out, never given it's proper due.

At the time, of course, everyone was comparing it to Elfman's themes, I wonder if they kept it quite in part because of this?

"Because he's the hero that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now... and so we'll hunt him... because he can take it... because he's not a hero... he's a silent guardian, a watchful protector... a DARK KNIGHT."

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#51
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7/11/08 at 8:33pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

I just watched it tonight. In terms of softness, I'd say it might be slightly softer than the sharpest Blu-rays, but not enough to cause me the least bit of disappointment.

The True HD sound, however, was staggering. I think this is the first time the sound seemed not to push toward me as much as it completely engulfed me (as in over my head). It was as delicious a sound experience as I have ever had in my home theater.

(THE DARK KNIGHT prologue was also terrific.)
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#52
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7/11/08 at 9:38pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighDefDiscNewsB
Question for you all..

Is anyone experiencing any issues with the TrueHD track? In particular when I'm bitstreaming from my BD30 to my 605 I noticed the TrueHD icon doesn't light up but does on other titles like 'I Am Legend' or 'Cloverfield'.

I know the default track is set to DD. Typically when I select the TrueHD track on other titles like the above mentioned ones the icon does light up.

Anyone else experiencing this issue? Perhaps I have a defective disc..
The disc isn't defective. There's a hardware problem with Blu-ray they have yet to work around regarding the Secondary Audio.

On titles encoded with BD-Java - which Batman Begins is - having the Secondary Audio option set to ON while bitstreaming TrueHD audio will cause just the regular Dolby Digital "core" of the TrueHD audio stream to be sent via bitstream through HDMI. If you turn Secondary Audio "OFF" you will get the full TrueHD audio signal; however, the button audio in the menus and the Picture-in-Picture audio for the In-Movie Experience will now be silent.

Setting the TrueHD firmware setting to PCM solves this problem on some players, but the Panasonic BD30 cannot currently decode TrueHD internally, so you're back to just the Dolby Digital "core".

Hope this makes sense. (And let's hope someone figures out a way around this annoying hardware issue with regards to TrueHD, BD-Java, Bitstream and Secondary Audio!)
My DVD/BD Collection
Criterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
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#53
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7/12/08 at 5:42am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Thanks Brandon. Now I just have to look into the menu settings on the 605/BD30 and see where about I have to go to shut the Secondary Audio 'Off'.

I'll try this and report back.

----
Brendan Surpless
Reviewer/Editor for HighDefDiscNews
A quickly growing news site maintained by 2 folks who simply love film in ALL formats.

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#54
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7/12/08 at 7:39am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

The Dark Knight prologue blew me away, not just in terms of audio and visual quality, but these six minutes are better than most +90min features I've seen recently.
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#55
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7/12/08 at 10:34am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighDefDiscNewsB
Thanks Brandon. Now I just have to look into the menu settings on the 605/BD30 and see where about I have to go to shut the Secondary Audio 'Off'.

I'll try this and report back.
No prob.

You'll find the Secondary Audio setting on the BD 30 after selecting Audio -> Digital Audio Output. It'll be on the bottom of the page where you can set the four audio types (DTS, DTS-MA, DD THD, DD) to "PCM" or "Bitstream".
My DVD/BD Collection
Criterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
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#56
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7/12/08 at 11:40am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Henry
The Dark Knight prologue blew me away, not just in terms of audio and visual quality, but these six minutes are better than most +90min features I've seen recently.

I know what you mean!! I've seen the prologue twice now and all the prologue has done was whet my appetite for the film even MORE!

I tried switching the Secondary Audio to 'Off'. Turns out the audio was 'Off'. I tried Walk Hard (which is a Profile 2.0 title) and the TrueHD icon did light up. Does this make sense?

----
Brendan Surpless
Reviewer/Editor for HighDefDiscNews
A quickly growing news site maintained by 2 folks who simply love film in ALL formats.

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#57
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7/13/08 at 11:28am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Then there shouldn't be a problem. The regular DD 5.1 track is the one that defaults on. Maybe it's just a matter of selecting the TrueHD audio stream after loading the disc (stream 2/5 and not 1/5)?
My DVD/BD Collection
Criterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
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#58
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7/14/08 at 5:23am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Conway
Then there shouldn't be a problem. The regular DD 5.1 track is the one that defaults on. Maybe it's just a matter of selecting the TrueHD audio stream after loading the disc (stream 2/5 and not 1/5)?

I made sure to select the TrueHD option. I spoke to my friend and he said there is a similar issue with 'V For Vendetta' on BD. This honestly annoys me because my HD-DVD copy was just fine and I only purchased the BD so I could fully hear the TrueHD option.

Either Justin or myself are going to email WB and ask them about this issue.

Thanks for your help though Brandon

----
Brendan Surpless
Reviewer/Editor for HighDefDiscNews
A quickly growing news site maintained by 2 folks who simply love film in ALL formats.

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#59
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7/14/08 at 5:20pm
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

It's similar to V for Vendetta because they both have Java menus.

There's something else going on with your firmware, because I've seen the TrueHD work on both titles with Panasonic 30's and Onkyo 605's.
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Criterion DVD/BDs Owned: 55, Total DVDs Owned: 527, Blu-ray Discs Owned: 223
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#60
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7/15/08 at 10:18am
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Re: HTF BLU-RAY REVIEW: Batman Begins

As an FYI, I could not get the disc to play the disc on my Sony S300. (The unit would reboot when it reached the beginning of the movie.) It turns out that there was a firmware update on 6/20 (going from 3.70 to 3.95). After I made the upgrade, the disc played fine.
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