Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Dave,

Hi. I'm not sure whom you're responding to, but both Nelson and I mentioned the allusion to the Borg in The Neutral Zone. I liked how it was left kind of cryptic, too. For me, it made Q Who all the more chilling.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

6' 1.5"
Suzie Plakson - Biography

No wonder she had no trouble playing opposite Michael Dorn, who is 6' 4".

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Thanks. Yeah, I often think of that (their heights) when I see the two of them together in a scene. Incidentally, I met Michael Dorn at a Creation-sponsored Trek Convention many years ago. I'm also 6'4". I was going to challenge him to a duel, but thought better of it since his Klingon martial arts are a notch above mine.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I don't think I watched more than five TNG episodes when originally aired. Now with Sci-Fi running four episodes every Monday I can catch up.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Thanks Scott, yes we did allude to the Borg!

I thought I'd make a few quick comments about the 3rd season without all the detail. As we all know, it's when the series was run by Michael Piller and he made the show come into it's own. Stories were more character focused.

A lot of great shows this year. My favorites include: The Ensigns of Command was a nice study of Data being in command, sort of like Galileo Seven. The Survivors saw Troi go cookoo while Picard tries to solve the mystery of the planet's only 2 survivors. Who Watches the Watchers shows how Starfleet spies on a planet. A great Prime Directive show, much better then Insurrection. I liked how the fear of the Mintakeans reacts to the appearance of the Picard.

I always liked Booby Trap, and how Geodi and Leah figure out how to defeat the trap. They follow up the Geordi story in the fourth year with the real Leah Brahms! The Enemy is cool, one of my favorites because Geordi and the Romulan work together to get out and the first time we see Tomalak, a Romulan commander as memorable as Kor in TOS Errand of Mercy. The Defector is a terrific follow-up on the Romulan story and nice to see Tomalak back. Deja Q is a worthy Q story where he's lost his powers and left to live as a human. I love the Data line, "An irony. It means that you have achieved in disgrace what I have always aspired to be."

The highlight in most eyes is Yesterday's Enterprise. A cool episode that had such lasting effects on the rest of the series. And this episode was recently discussed in an interview with Ronald D. Moore as a better story choice for the first TNG movie! The Offspring was interesting, but the political intrgue of Sins of the Father I felt was a stronger show. It was fun to see Kurn take over as second in command and then the revelation of Dura's father as the traitor, and Worf taking the blame for it to preserve the Empire.

Captain's Holiday, a fun show for Picard to find romance and adventure. Tin Man follows and I found it to be very memorable, and another favorite. The idea of Elbrun joining with the Gomtuu was a great happy ending and how Data in the end connecting with Troi was sweet.

Hollow Pursuits was fun too. But Sarak was a really strong show and it was cool to see that character come back to the Trek world, but sad to see him end that way. The season ends with The Best of Both Worlds, and a very chilling last shot before going to black and 3 or 4 long months to wait to see what happens!

On a separate subject, I'm watching the fourth season. When I saw Identity Crisis, I was surprised to see how bad the video effects of the current DVD's look. There's a shot of a shuttlecraft heading into the planet's atmosphere. As it pans across the screen, I am amazed how jaggy it looks! I am watching on an upconvert Toshiba HD-DVD player on a 50" plasma which is really unforgiving of the source material! There was talk last year that CBS Digital was looking at tests to remaster TNG as they have done for TOS, but that the effort was going to be difficult. Live action is on film, effects done in video and then edited on video at 480. I have no idea if it will be done, I some how doubt it. This show will benefit.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson,

You've again written an excellent post, containing much that I could respond to, and I will, probably tomorrow. But for now, I wanted to touch on just a couple of points.

I don't have too much to add from the technical side of things, but Identity Crisis was IMO a phenomenal episode when it first aired. For me, it has a very The Outer Limits feel to it. I recall the first time I watched it, and picked up on the extra shadow--I am fully convinced that the effect the writers may have been going for was fully experienced by me the first time I saw it. It was chilling, all of a sudden to realize what Geordi wasn't yet seeing (and eventually did see) during his reconstruction. The first time I saw this episode, I saw it before Geordi did, and I gasped when I realized it.

Speaking of chilling, and moving back to the second season for a moment--

I watched Q Who tonight. I wanted to see how many light years Q sent the Enterprise when they came in proximity to system J-25. It turns out it was 7,000--I'm guessing that this put them on the outskirts of the Alpha quadrant? I don't know for certain.

BTW, another reason I wanted very much to watch Q Who tonight was because last night, we concluded Season Three of VOY (Scorpion, pt. 1). I wanted to hear some of the language used to describe the beginnings of the Borg as well as more on their desire to acquire technology.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Scott! Come to think of it, you're right, Identity Crisis was pretty Outer Limits-esque. I can see Robert Culp in the role!

And I saw "The Minds Eye" last night, that Manchurian Candidate plot to have Gordi kill the Klingon Governor to start a war between the Klingon's and the Federation. That was a really good one with some chilling brainwashing sequences and the mystery Romulan women in the shadows.

Look forward to your comments on the third season.

Nelson

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson, you've touched on many of my favorite episodes of the third year, and many of my favorites of the series. Let me add: The Price - the interaction between Riker and Ral was great, especially the scene where they confront each other in the bar. "To the last mile." Also always liked The Hunted and The High Ground, lots of contemporary social commentary in these, like the days of TOS, and a nice showcase for Dr. Crusher in the latter. And of course, how can we forget The Most Toys, with that ambiguous ending. Did Data fire or not?

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

The Most Toys and Ensigns of Command are two of my favorite Datasodes. I think I like these because Data gets to be in command/On His own in these episodes and I always like Tough in Command Data over the Comedy Relief Data or the Fish out of Water Data that is featured in Many Shows. These two shows has a Data I can believe can be a commisioned and decorated Starfleet Officer

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Dave,

I like those titles you have for Data. I might also add that I like the 'I'm going to take over the ship and become scarier than hell Data.' This is when he is either taken over by some entity, acting the part of Lore (in which case he isn't really Data, of course), or has gone off on his own (knowingly) without too much regard for protocol, such as when he was in charge of the Sutherland, was attempting to contact Sarjenka, or was creating Lal. I wouldn't want to see this kind of Data all of the time, but in small doses, I like it.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I actually grew tired of "Possessed Data" Because Spiner could only play it like Lore everytime, so it just became awful Dull. The Worst example of "{PossesedData}" was the 7th Season Stinker MASKS. I could barely sit thru that one the first time, I usually skip it by choice.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Interesting, you guys have brought up episodes that I wasn't as taken with.

The High Ground and The Hunted were good TOS type stories and they had endings that made you think about the situations. I liked how Beverly said to the police in The High Ground that they didn't have to kill him.

I skipped The Most Toys in this viewing because I didn't like it when it first aired. Maybe I'll give it another chance. I do recall that last shot, did he shoot or not.

Creating Lal was an interesting episode and I liked how Picard at first wasn't happy that he went and did it, but later embraced the project and tried to help Data to protect Lal from the evil Starfleet robotics/Maddox type Admiral.

Similarly, when Data took it onto himself to answer Sarjenka's messages was an equally good, yet totally child-like naive move that Picard has to later deal with as they are neck deep in Prime Directive violation issues! I think that was what I liked about those Data shows, he was like a child.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Unfortunately, all we saw in the TNG films was this Data, or some variation on him. In every film, he was either possessed or otherwise out of control. Sadly, the film TNG never got the character right - nor much of the series.


Offspring was an outstanding episode; one of the best of any series. Not only is there a great Data story in there, a wonderful guest star in Hallie Todd, but Picard has his own arc in it that's believable and powerful. And let's not forget the comedy - that scene with Riker in the bar is an all-time high.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Sam,

Yeah, I know. There were some things I did like about Data in the films, but swearing was not one of them.

Agreed. It was an outstanding episode. It made me teary-eyed the first time I saw it. Incidentally, I have always been fond of the name 'Lal' in this episode, since it was also the name of one of the two Vians we see in The Empath (albeit not canonical). The self-destruction of Lal was so very well done, so poignant, and (for us through Data) extremely sad.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I had an opportunity to revisit The Most Toys and In Theory. Two shows I skipped in my recent trip down TNG.

I never liked these two shows because I didn't like the basic premise. But on second viewing, they grew on me. The idea for how Data would react if he was held against his will was interesting. Fajo used logic against Data by arguing causing harm to others was not part of his programing and he could not kill. But he reasoned that he could not let it go on any longer and concluded killing Fajo was the only way out. That was good. But I found Fajo annoying and that was what made me dislike the episode. I liked Saul Rubinek much better in his muti guest role on Frasier! But in reading up on this episode, apparently an actor was chosen to play Fajo, but tried to kill himself after 2 days of filming, so Saul was hired at the last minute to take over. Given that, he did a terrific job of creating a very unlikable character.

In Theory was also more interesting the second time around. I liked how the script examined the idea of a machine trying to program itself for romantic love and utterly failling. Data could only use examples he found as a model, yet he couldn't make the leap and reinterprete the examples and make his own versions of how to act or love. Interesting how director Patrick Stewart used the last shot to express a sad mood, yet Data isn't sad. But we are for him.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson,

I did like how Data was able to foil Fatjo (refusing to speak to Fatjo's friend) even though he (Data) was still a prisoner of his. That was wonderful.

This reminds me of an instance in TOS. I'm guessing you will know the one. The circumstances are not identical, but I believe the logic used and the solutions reached are the same.

We watched The Game last night. That episode was more chilling than I remembered it to be. One of the most interesting things to me was not only was the game addictive, but if you chose not to play it, those whom had played it forced you to play it! BTW, was it ever explained who the woman on Risa was? Was she also a Ktarian (or Kitarian)?

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Well, I was thinking of Galileo Seven where Spock concluded the only logical thing left to do was ignite the fuel to create the distress signal.

I'll be getting to the Game shortly, I'll let you know, but that girl who gave Riker the game was the same baddie who shows up at the end.

I just finished watching Redemption Part 1 and 2. That was a great one, lots of good stuff involving Klingon politics and the Romulans getting involved to alter the balance of power. And what a run Gowron has and how it ends on DS9.

I always liked how they wove in Sela's story. How whacked out is that for Picard to get his head around! I guess it's true, Since Yesterday's Enterprise, the whole timeline is now suspect. So Kirk may still be alive in the original timeline, or was Tasha aways destined to go back to the battle and survive to mother Sela. So was the Enterprise D always suppose to encounter the vortex that starts this whole cycle?

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Nelson,

Yep, that's the one.

Okay, thanks. The make-up fooled me on that one.

More later.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I just want you guys to know...i am reading this! I have been working a long stretch, so while i have been reading, its been to late to post anything coherent. You guys type some really nice essays i might add. I need to watch some of these episodes. Its been so long, i cant remember some of them! I dont have TNG entirely in my memory like i do TOS. Course i have watched TOS episodes a few more times than TNG.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Very good thread! Earlier someone mentioned Conspiracy and the aliens...if I recall right in the commentary by the Okudas on First Contact, those aliens were supposed to be THE bad guys for TNG, but it flopped and was merged into the Borg in Q Who. Anyone else? I always thought Data did fire and then lied in The Most Toys, becoming more human, no? Best Data moment is Q's gift of a laugh in Deja Q. Hysterical! As is the episode as a whole.

I always enjoy the follow up to The Best of Both Worlds, Family. Although, Robert seems to be hurting JL at the end and not helping him even though he is trying to. This past Monday they had a personal fave of mine on, The Drumhead. When the Admiral asks JL so nastily "Captain, are you completely recovered from you experience with The Borg?" Repulsive! Anyone else wonder how Roddenberry allowed that to happen in his "perfect" future?

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I think Roddenberry would've approved as alot of story's in the original were moral plays. The Drumhead is one Trek Episode that has increased in relevence as time moved on, it's very topical today.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

About "The Best of Both Worlds part 1" ;

I always like to think of the influence this episode had on modern television. Along with "Who Shot J.R.?," these are the two biggest reasons so many shows today end their seasons on a cliffhanger. (some people would choose to use the word "credit," some the word "blame." )

BOBW Certainly set the pattern for every Trek finale there after. People also rarely remember that a big motivation for it was that Patrick Stewart's contract was up and when BOBW 1 aired it was not known if he would be returning to the show. It's hard to imagine where the show would have gone without him, it being so different. But I do always wonder what BOBW part 2 would have been had his character not returned. I'm sure they probably worked on both possibilities when writing the episodes so there's probably a story out there somewhere.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Zack, your story that Patrick Stewart's uncertain return for the fourth season was a surprise to me. I looked it up at Memory Alpha's website. It says he wasn't happy that Picard wasn't doing more and was part of his contract negotiations, thus he sure got that in the fourth season including directing!

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I had heard about Patrick Stewart MAYBE not coming back for the 4th season. I dont think it was a strong possiblity, but it existed. As i understand it Riker would have been Capt, and his 1st officer would have been whats her name from part one of the episode.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

You mean Shelby. She would have been good there as Number One. Though I'm glad Stewart stayed on.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

I was going to add that Picard didn't return to the show, as he was ... assimilated.

Seriously, those are good points. Speaking of that second part, I don't think I've read on too many Boards where anyone preferred pt. 2 over pt. 1. I think pt. 1 was a masterpiece (one of the very few perfect 10s in Trek history). I recall waiting for a long time for pt. 2 to air, and the speculation on how they were going to resolve this Borg conflict was a joy to read at the time. Several people offered so many possibilities. I think pt. 2 was strong, but not anywhere near as strong as pt. 1.

Yep, Shelby is her name (Elizabeth Dennehy). However, I don't believe she would have been Riker's number one. Why? Because every Trek fan would have fed her to the Borg personally. Not really. She IMO redeemed herself very admirably in the second part of The Best of Both Worlds. BTW, I recall reading somewhere that the actress (Dennehy) wanted her name to appear in the opening credits (not as a guest star, but along with Stewart, Frakes, Sirtis, etc.).

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Does anyone like Tapestry? Another fave of mine. If you do tell me your opinion of this: What would Picard have been like if he hadn't been stabbed in the heart and had remained "wild?" As a third outcome separate from the two in the episode. I think he'd have been court-martialed early on. Thoughts?

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

Tapestry is probably the best of the "Q" eps.

Patrick Stewart really sells it.

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Tapestry is one of the very best TNG had to offer. One of Stewart's best moments on the show, and DeLancie is probably at his best as Q.

As for the BOBW, I remember hearing a radio interview with Stewart in the summer of 1990 in which he said he would certainly be back. I think a lot of the speculation he wouldn't was hype to raise the stakes and the anticipation level for the 4th season premiere. Can you imagine if he didn't return to the show? What a disappointment the second half would have been.

Re: Star Trek The Next Generation appreciation thread

We watched Conundrum last night. It remains one of my favorites. In fact, that entire disc is quite good (Ethics, Power Play, etc.).

I loved it when they realized who they were, and Worf had to 'step down,' so to speak. My only gripe (and it's a small one) is I believe they made McDuff way too conspicuous. I would have loved, for example, not to have had him appear on the Bridge right after the probe. It would have been great (IMO) to have him walk on the Bridge sometime after that (maybe even a minute or two later).

There were some funny moments in the episode that I never tire of, such as Data as a bartender, or the pseudo-jealous attitude of Ro toward Troi, or Worf when he tells Riker to 'proceed.'