Going thru life being unnoticed

Originally Posted by Holadem

Sure. But joining interest groups was one of the very first things suggested in this thread, by Jeff and others. Nightlife was one suggestion of many, but for some reason people like to concentrate on that one.

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H

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

I suspect that my point (or more accurately my complaint about the advice) was obscured by all my blah blah blah, so I'll try to clarify it.

I'm suggesting to Robert and others like myself that forcing the situation and adapting your introverted personality to socialize with the masses in environments that don't already appeal to you will not be as rewarding as specifically seeking out like minded people where they congregate and socializing with them in a limited way. It's difficult to find a "people completely like me" club to hang out in, but finding a "people who like this one thing that I really like" club is easier than it has ever been. As an example, I meet the largest number of strangers by playing poker. It's a hobby that I really enjoy even though a large portion of the other players are absolute assholes. I'm not expecting to find a soulmate in that activity, just a few suckers. If I can get a good conversation out of the experience as well then it's win-win for me. But you can see how that approach is different than just mixing in an unstructured social situation like a bar or club. And it's vastly different than walking up to ladies at the market and talking about melons.

So my complaint isn't about the advice to "get out there", it's about the "there" that keeps getting proposed. If you alreaddy like to drink or dance or have shouting conversations, then a bar is definitely the proper place to go. If, like me, none of that appeals to you then it seems like a setup for disappointment - and therefore unwelcome advice. My point is that if you generally want more rewarding social interaction in your life then it's better to get it in small, selective doses - some poker time with poker players, some sci-fi nerd time on a targetted internet forum, etc. You will continue to be "invisible" in public, but you won't feel as isolated if you have some place to go for a meeting of the minds. It's easier to build limited relationships with people who have already self-identified a specific common interest than it is to find those people in an open public location by kissing all the frogs.

Does that clarify my point of view?

Brad

Originally Posted by Holadem

Sure. But joining interest groups was one of the very first things suggested in this thread, by Jeff and others. Nightlife was one suggestion of many, but for some reason people like to concentrate on that one.

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H

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

I think you guys are fighting against a strawman with most of your points - at least with respect to anything that I've written. This wallowing in self-pity, friendless loser character that you're addressing isn't me, nor do I suspect that it is anyone else here. I've got plenty of friends, and whether I'd consider myself a "nice guy" or not is irrelevant. I haven't acquired the friendships that I have through random interactions with the public. Perhaps the best thing for this stereotypical friendless loser that you guys are helping to do is to just reach out to everyone he meets with no filter, but my ongoing point is that people who are naturally introverted are better served seeking specific relationships with people who share their specific interests. That is different advice than telling them to go be amongst as many people as they can. And it certainly isn't telling them to indulge their shyness.

I'll relate it back to the original post. Robert said "I hate fake people." I'd guess that the most likely companion to that sentiment is hating being a fake person. An introvert who pretends to be an extrovert will feel "fake", and any relationships that develop under those circumstances will feel "fake" to a certain extent as well.

For Robert or me or whomever else might self-apply the label of introvert, our best bet (IMO) is to find activities that entertain us regardless of whether they will lead to friendship or not. For me personally, that isn't going to be a bar, dance club, or church since I would have to pretend to want to be there in there first place. So when I see that advice I step in to give my opinion that maybe random acquaintances aren't really the best solution for an introverted person. And yes, I have been there, done that - why presume that I haven't to reinforce your strawman?

Brad

Originally Posted by Jeff_CusBlues

Did somebody say something?

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

There are many ways in which we limit our own sociability ("we" referencing the introverted wallflowers - and I am a grand achiever at introversion), but the primary motive usually seems to be protecting the ego. As painful as it can be to be ignored, it's much better than being noticed and ridiculed.
Brad

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

As an example, I meet the largest number of strangers by playing poker. It's a hobby that I really enjoy even though a large portion of the other players are absolute assholes.

Brad

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

> The fact that people dress this narcissistic horse-hooey up to look like introverted shyness is also crap.

Now I'm confused. A narcissist would have high self-esteem by definition and would likely be an extrovert if anything.

Shy people often have low self-esteem; that's a big reason why they have trouble talking to other people... they assume they will be rejected (and I'm not just talking about dating situations).

So it's hard to picture a narcissist being shy. My old roommate was always saying how great he is and was the opposite of shy.

Originally Posted by Philip_T

Like yourself and others will follow suit.

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

I've been scanning the available groups in my area and this really seems like a great resource. They even have message boards within the groups that allow you to view the way the people in the group interact before you ever have to commit to joining. Thanks for posting that.



Did I actually give that impression? I think the key disagreement I have with your interpretation is the use of the phrase "automatically desired by everyone". I don't think that introverts expect to be accepted by anyone automatically. Personally, I've always suspected that 95% of the world's population would probably find at least one reason to dislike me without any effort at all. (And that's OK.) I think that we just want to find the people that will accept us at face value or a group where we fit in comfortably. I just want to maximize the time spent with that other 5%.

Any criticisms that we apply to other people are largely used as a defense mechanism, but I don't interpret that as narcissism. It seems to me that any other reaction would just feed into a cycle of self-loathing, which is not helpful at all.

Brad

Originally Posted by Robert_Z

.... when I was younger. I resented the fact that women never noticed me. Now that I'm older and have started losing "interest," I'm no longer bitter but still puzzled.

Hello from behind this introverted wall ...

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

Quote:
...arrogant and dismissive...
...special and precious...

IMO, you're projecting these attitudes onto a stereotype more than perceiving them from anyone participating in this thread. While I'll certainly dismiss any suggestions that don't appeal to me personally, let me be clear that I'm not judging anyone that does enjoy them. (Heck, my purchasing of Diageo, Inc. stock is counting on it. ) If there's arrogance coming across in the way that I write then it is just poor communication skills on my part. That having been said, adopting an attitude of self-respect for one's choices is normal for everyone. It's certainly better than saying "I suck. Those people are so much better than me. I wish I was having that kind of fun."

And I'm not claiming that there's anything "special and precious" about being reclusive, just that it is a real and prevalent personality trait. No one has claimed that one personality type is superior to another, just that introversion is real and it does shape many people's worldview. How does talking about this diminish your approach to life? It's not a zero sum game. One person's approach doesn't subtract from another's.

Brad

Originally Posted by Brad Porter

Back to the thread - where's Robert?

Brad

Originally Posted by drobbins

Jeff, I agree with what you say about getting out and doing stuff, but I don't think you can relate to what Robert_Z is trying to convey. I will try to explain why I have always felt invisible.

...

It has been years since I was invited over to someones house for dinner. Even today when church is over, the kids are off with their friends. My wife has people come over to talk with her. But no one comes over to chat with me. I realise that it is a two way street and I go to talk with some of the guys. I might as well be a WalMart greeting person. All I ever get is a "Hi how are you?" I have gone to church functions where nobody comes over. These are good friendly people.

I just figured that we have no common interests. I know that friendships just happen. They can't be made to happen. As stated earlier I don't have any interest in the "normal" guy stuff like sport, golf, etc... They don't have any interest in building their own house, building a web page,etc... The only people I talk to regularly are my family, co-workers and you guys. For the most part, I am invisible.

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

I don't know why it would be harder to make guy friends than to get a girlfriend- doesn't make sense to me.

Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood

> It's frustrating because my GF can always make friends easily. She'll get invited to parties, happy hours, etc., but not me.

So you have a girlfriend but are unhappy with not getting enough attention from women? What am I missing here? The original post did not sound like someone who had a girlfiriend.

I don't know why it would be harder to make guy friends than to get a girlfriend- doesn't make sense to me.