Going thru life being unnoticed

Do any of you ever feel invisible? I do, a lot. Always have. I'm an introvert. I'm not funny, at least not by mainstream standards. I'm not cool. Not tall, not rich, not extraordinarily handsome, etc.

I am a law-abiding short guy with an average body who makes an honest living. Why does that make me insignificant?

I used to be bitter about this when I was younger. I resented the fact that women never noticed me. Now that I'm older and have started losing "interest," I'm no longer bitter but still puzzled.

It doesn't matter where I go, everyone knows everyone else, except me. Everyone talks to everyone else, except me. Everyone hangs out with everyone else, except me. The only constant in these pictures is me, so I realize I've been "the problem." But I hate networking, I hate the politics of the workplace, and I hate fake people.

For some reason, I believe there are millions of people like me, with whom I could be good friends, but we all share a similar (lack of) personality, so we'll never speak.

Hello from behind this introverted wall ...

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

It could be worse.

If you are truly that invisible, maybe you should consider becoming a ninja?

Brad

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Dunno why, but this reminds me of something I read during the period they were looking for the new Bond, and how MI6's actual recruitment requirements differed from what the producers wanted. For instance, the movie Bond has to be good-looking and over 6' tall, probably around 6'2". In real life spies are ordinary looking, and no taller than 5'11", precisely to blend in.

I guess I feel the same way you do Robert, I've always been on the reserved side, but I differ from you in that I'm 6' tall. That might not be overly remarkable in the West, but here that puts me well into the 90th percentile in height -- yet I still get ignored. Fortunately for me, though, I am happily married, and as I age, I don't much care about whether I'm noticed or not anyway. Ironically my job rather requires me to be noticed, at least when I'm arguing a case (I'm a litigator). To this day I can't 'work a room' at a networking party, unlike some colleagues of mine who can schmooze effortlessly -- I can't.

What I can say is that, being noticed (in a good way!) requires you to lose that mindset, and just talk to people. Obviously you don't want to come across as obnoxious or pushy, but you do have to come out of your shell if you want to make friends. Just talk to people, what's the worst that can happen, they don't talk back? No loss there.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I have no doubt whatsoever that if I had not let mom pick out my school clothes, in addition to wearing socks with my shoes more often (smelly feet!), I would have been the most popular guy in school. Oh, a penis implant would have been a contributing factor as well.

There are probably lots of people like this. I was very shy until 1982 when I saw ET and suddenly wanted to make movies, be an actor or entertainer of some sort. Getting front of people scared me to death but I did it anyway and found I could make people laugh. It takes a moment like that to break out. Although even though I have a public entertainment job I'm still surprisingly introverted. I don't do a whole lot. Not much of a social life. Doesn't bother me.

But you don't really want to break out. You just want to hang with a group of people like yourself. The problem is they are all at home alone. Seriously, you do have to get out to meet people in person. Eventually you'll find a group. Or like you're doing now, connect with people online.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I've been pretty much of a loner myself. I kept to myself, I blend into crowds very easily, and I didn't socialize all that much.

But like Radioman has already done, I'm also transitioning into the entertainment business in a rather big way. I'm working at launching Canada's first national public access television channel, which will be available on digital cable, DTH satellite, Free-to-Air satellite, and on the Internet via BitTorrent. I'll have no other choice but to socialize BIG TIME!

At the same time, I'm working on improving my health by trying to follow a modest exercise regime, and walk around the downtown core of Montreal for an hour at least once a day. So along with improved social skills, I'll also improve my physical appearance and overall health, which is a good idea since I'm in my forties, and my extra weight could cause major problems down the road.

So with my new business, I'll meet more people, I'll look and feel better, and I'll probably have a lot more sex. My old self is slowly dying off, being replaced by a new me who'll probably be a nice guy to have at parties.

Robert, find something else to do with your life. What you're doing now doesn't appear to be working out to your advantage.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Did somebody say something?

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Come on out of your covey Jeff! We're out here talking amongst ourselves!

Cool. Good luck with your business Francois.

Diet and exercise. I've done that too. Its all about feeling better about yourself. Most people should buy a bicycle. Save on gas and get healthy. Feel good, look good, get out of the house, leave the cell phone at home and ride!!

The OP does have a good point about getting with people who are your type or in your group. For example, I love horror movies, but I'd become a zombie myself before I'd find a group around my small town my age of 40 something that I could relate to on this horror movie matter.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

This thread is a day old & I didn't notice it for some reason.

Always have, but I don't care to be the center of attention. I learned how to use to my advantage though. If you are the center of attention you are also an easy target for people who think differently than you. Back in school many of my friends would be getting in trouble, but I wasn't noticed. At work I always make sure my bosses know who I am and if I do something good, but it helps when the not so good things go unnoticed. I am not interested in sports, golf, hunting, fishing, racing or many of the other things that guys typically talk about. So my main friends are my wife and 2 kids. Other than work, I don't have a social life.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Dave, I always notice your avatar.

Join the crowd, at 5'4" I can almost blend in, except growing up as an Asian American in a 99% white school system was always fun, you get lumped into being the brainiacs crowd, however, despite having good grades and stuff, I was always fairly athletic too but nobody assumes such so I was always good at things like football where I could play WR and be hidden. Never was good at blocking the rush though.

Certainly there are great benefits of being unnoticed.. think Britney, et al., or any of the stupid things that they can't get away with (nor should, really, not condoning them)...

Jay

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

It is hard not to notice. "For The Birds" is my favorite Pixar film. Talk about not fitting in with the crowd.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

This is going to sound simple (some of the simplest things are very difficult), but if no one is noticing you (and you truly want to be noticed), do something to be noticed. I don't mean run down the highway naked wearing a gorilla mask . . . but seriously, do you think it is society's fault that you are too much of a wuss to interact with your fellow humans?

So tell me, what have you ever done to be noticed? Have you taken a cooking class, volunteered for a charity, joined a club, gone to a singles bar, talked to random strangers on the street?

Wait, I can hear it now . . . Gee Jeff, I'm too (shy, introverted, clumsy, nerdy, ugly, serial-killerish) to do thaaaat!

Well guess what, aside from Lew Crippen and very few other naturally smooth operators, everyone else has one or more of these seemingly fatal flaws. I myself am painfully shy and can't dance a lick (and I've got my worries about some of the borderline serial killers around here ). But I (and they) certainly don't sit back and let it stop us from enjoying life. Plus, how does anyone know they aren't good at something if they haven't tried.

"Oooo, I don't like cooking!!" - Let me tell you something. Chicks like to cook, hence chicks go to cooking classes. You know what chicks like more? A GUY who cooks. You do the math . . .

"Oooo I don't like the bar scene!!" - Yeah drunken women in short skirts who aren't afraid to hang out in singles bars should never appeal to a nerdy guy who has trouble meeting women.

"Oooo, I'm too shy to join a club or a charity!!" - Yeah, because doing some good for humanity or learning a new hobby or skill while simultaneously allowing myself to interact with women in a non-pressure atmosphere can do absolutely nothing for my horrible self-esteem.

Get off your ass boy. It's been on the pity pot too long. Even if you only go to the supermarket and ask a strange woman how to pick out a good melon, it's a start. The fact is, you are unnoticable because you aren't doing anything to be noticed.

Life is for living, so go live it.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

You've just described most everyone. On average, people are average. So don't worry, you're in good company.

If you need to be more -- well, Jeff's comments are productive.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I like living semi under the radar....especially when it comes to the friendly types that work for government agencies. At six four, two-fifteen it's a little hard blending in to the crowd.....but I can see over their heads and know what's coming sooner

Mort

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I was going to reply earlier, but I was bit too shy.

Pay attention to Jeff’s advice—as usual he is offering sound advice without either rancor or sugar coating.

On the cooking class point, a friend and I took typing way back when I was in high school. While we took a lot of ribbing from the guys, we knew that (back then) only girls took typing. Two guys and thirty or forty girls—to quote Jeff: “You do the math;”

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Jeff, I agree with what you say about getting out and doing stuff, but I don't think you can relate to what Robert_Z is trying to convey. I will try to explain why I have always felt invisible.

I am not shy and I have never been one to hibernate in the house. Until I got married, the house was just a place to sleep. In my teens I was very active in 4H and as I got older I was in bowling leagues. I went to either a party or a club every Friday and Saturday night etc..

Now it sounds like I was really social. The reality of it all is I was the guy who had a decent job and reliable car. I had two friends that were "connected" with the social scene but usually had no way of getting there. So we worked out well that way. Somehow, and I could never figure it out, I always ended up by myself not talking with anyone. This whole time, I never met, let alone, went home with a girl. Not even the "drunken women in short skirts". In my entire life I have had only 4 girl friends and 2 of them I married. (not at the same time) I know that I am not Gods gift to women, but I am not offensively ugly either. Being as I was never into sports, I wasn't built or anything even though I lifted weights regularly.

I have been married 17 years now and I am content with my life. I moved away from the area that I grew up in. It has been years since I was invited over to someones house for dinner. Even today when church is over, the kids are off with their friends. My wife has people come over to talk with her. But no one comes over to chat with me. I realise that it is a two way street and I go to talk with some of the guys. I might as well be a WalMart greeting person. All I ever get is a "Hi how are you?" I have gone to church functions where nobody comes over. These are good friendly people.

I just figured that we have no common interests. I know that friendships just happen. They can't be made to happen. As stated earlier I don't have any interest in the "normal" guy stuff like sport, golf, etc... They don't have any interest in building their own house, building a web page,etc... The only people I talk to regularly are my family, co-workers and you guys. For the most part, I am invisible.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I can see myself in a lot of what's been posted here. I often feel like the odd man out when I go places. I'll go to a music festival with a friend, and everyone at the place seems at ease, but I just feel like I don't belong. The thought of going into a restaurant to eat by myself makes me feel extremely uncomfortable, but if I happen to think about it and look around when I'm at a restaurant with others, the people who are by themselves don't look out of place. Nobody's sitting there thinking, "God, look at that loser." Same with movies, but I've only recently started to go to movies by myself.

Building on what Dave said, it seems like there is some undefinable thing that dictates how people react to someone. One guy can walk into an office and tell a joke, and everyone will laugh and clap him on the back. My mom's boss can tell the same joke with the same delivery, and people either don't laugh or get offended. It's the same as one guy being the life of the party and his friend, who is no worse looking and no less outgoing, sitting by himself.

Part of the first example seems to boil down to expectations: how you're acting vs. how they expect you to act. I've known people who take criticism and take criticism, and when they finally speak up for themselves, the person doing the criticising is deeply offended. Someone else who fights back from the word go can fight back without causing any hard feelings at all.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Guys, you aren't invisible. You just aren't interesting. You are giving off a pity/needy vibe, and people (especially women) can smell it a mile away. It's not your looks, it's not your height, it's your sad sack demeanor. Nobody likes a downer. Look, I've got a buddy I've known for 25 years and no one in their right mind would call him handsome. You'd think he'd be a scarecrow to women. But he's positive and interesting and can talk a blue streak. More women chase him than anyone I've ever seen and he's married. I'm single and more like you guys than you know . . . and I depend on the ones he has to turn down (not really . . . well sometimes ).

You just need to stop appearing needy. How to stop this? Practice. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I'm a law abiding short guy too...5' 3" short. I was invisible all through high school. So much so that I was never made fun of for being short while the 5'4" and 5'5" kids were. Go figure. It's like noboby noticed me, and I'm sure 99% of my graduating class would look at our year books, see my picture and have no memory of me whatsoever.

Can't say I've been invisible since then..been married 21 years, have two kids, decent career and a couple of friends..But I'm definitely always on the perimeter of things and never the center of attetention which is exactly how I like it.

Robert, there are no doubt many many people like you out there. If you want to find them, join a diners club, take an adult ed. class on something that interests you, check out your local Y or rec center for upcoming activities that may interest you etc, etc.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Hey, I don't do that needy pity me stuff. I have seen it and it is not me. I am not shy and I am always active with something. I do agree that people don't find what I do interesting. On the other side, I don't find what they do interesting either. I agree also with a lot of what Greg_S_H said about the jokes. Two people can tell the same joke, story, or adventure and one will be received well while the other is not. I worked with this guy who was shorter, should have had braces while he was younger, had troubles talking with out spitting, and frankly I though he was kind of weird looking. And yet waitresses would give him their phone number and all he did was order dinner.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Damn -- Jeff. Easy there bro'

--
H - but you're right.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I've never felt the way you describe. I go to dinner and movies alone all the time. My attitude is that I simply don't care what other people may or may not be thinking if they see me alone.

The truth is half the ones who are with someone are probably wishing they were alone and the other half are probably wishing they were with someone else. The last thing they are thinking about is that I'm a loser because I'm out by myself.

I always used to laugh at how some of the guys I worked with would put on the tough guy act when their wive or girlfriends weren't around. It was bitch this and bitch that. When you saw them with their wives it was, "yes, dear"....."no, dear", and "coming, dear". From tough guy to pussy-whipped pansy in one easy step. Who needs it?

I come and go as I please, do as I please, and spend my money as I please, and I don't have to ask a ball and chain for permission. I don't get why a lot of people somehow assume that a guy (or gal) is incomplete if they don't have "someone".

When I look at the crap that some of the people I know have gone through with their wives and girlfriends, I don't mind being "invisible". I especially like being "invisible" at work. The fact is I generally can't stand managers or management, so the less I see of them, and they of me, the better I like it. Being "invisible" at work is good.

Being "visible" means that people expect shit from you. Being "invisible" is just fine with me.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I've pondered this a bit more in the last day or so. Please indulge my long-winded posting.

There are many ways in which we limit our own sociability ("we" referencing the introverted wallflowers - and I am a grand achiever at introversion), but the primary motive usually seems to be protecting the ego. As painful as it can be to be ignored, it's much better than being noticed and ridiculed. Objectively it's easy to see that those aren't the only two possible outcomes, but introverted folks tend to exaggerate the probability that strangers will judge them harshly because we generally judge people very harshly (in our own heads). Our frame of mind is that other people will most likely judge us as harshly as we judge ourselves (and them). So the general social strategy is to "blend in" and hope that we'll stumble upon our social compatriots simply through good fortune like everyone says will happen. Repeat that strategy without success for long enough and you start to feel that there must therefore be something wrong with you.

Jeff or someone else with the answers to social anxiety always jump into these threads (search for the Valentine's Day thread) to tell us to just get out there and meet people at bars, classes, tractor pulls, whatever... that we just haven't turned over enough rocks. This advice presumes that the final desired outcome is to meet people and be noticed (or just not ostracized). My response to this kind of advice is that introverts don't just want to be noticed or acknowledged; we want to be valued and desired, preferably by someone whose opinion we actually respect. That's a tall order to ask of strangers (especially drunken ones), so casual social situations don't really seem to provide the promised opportunities for the meaningful connections that we are really seeking - and that unfortunately reinforces that there must still be something wrong with us since the popular advice that everyone repeats isn't producing the desired results for us.

That is the beauty of internet forums. You can compartmentalize your socialization to people from around the world that already share common interests with you. You can control your side of the conversation completely and you can take your time presenting the best version of you that you're capable of producing. It's still you, just hopefully a carefully edited version. I may disagree with 70+% of the world about religion, 90+% of the world about politics, and unknown millions about every little expression of pop culture - but I can pick my battles one issue at a time and feel fairly confident that the general audience that I'm socializing with is at least somewhat interested in hearing an opinion - even mine. And if they aren't then they are easy enough to ignore.

Nobody knows how tall or fat or ugly or hairy or smelly you are on the internet unless you tell them - and they have no reason to judge you on those physical aspects that you may be very self conscious of in real life encounters. Personally, I'm 20 feet tall and smell like cinnamon rolls - as far as you know. Any impression I make is through my words and my opinions, even if it only reaches a few dozen people. If you find the right community then you can satisfy your needs for regular social interaction without having to go out into the real world searching for friendly folks the old fashioned way. Now if you are genuinely unfunny, dull, or bad at expressing yourself then you will have a harder time making friends on the net as well, but opportunities abound for you to improve those skills without the pressure of a real world social situation. The only real drawback is that it doesn't get you touched, but there are internet resources for that sort of socialization too if you can stomach it.

Do I have a point here? My impression is that most people feel invisible when they are isolated from friends and family, and it's easier to find people that won't ignore you by seeking out groups and forums that address the things that have the greatest meaning to you. If you can find a real world equivalent of a hobbyist forum where you live then chances are that you'll end up meeting some kindred spirits there. If not, at least you have people to interact with on the net even if they don't live anywhere near you. That's a lot more than most people in the history of the world could rely upon. You'll likely still feel "invisible" in casual social situations, but you can just rationalize it by realizing that all those apparently happy people out there are just shallow, vapid, douchebag meat sacks that aren't worth knowing. Or you could just get a puppy.

Now I'm off to find a 15 foot tall lady friend who smells like angel food cake.

Brad

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

First, read "The Ignored" by Bentley Little.

Next, the way to get noticed is by noticing other people. Yes, it is just that simple. Treat other people like they are special and you will get treated this way in return. Look people right in the eye when you are talking to them, smile and be friendly. Listen to what they are saying, ask them questions about themselves, don't turn everything into an anecdote about yourself. And when you see them again later, ask them follow-up questions that show you remember who they are and regard them and their lives as important. Over time you will have more friends and acquaintances than you will know what to do with. People will think of you when they realize you are thinking of them.

If you treat every person as if they are attractive, intelligent and interesting, it will start to come naturally and will not feel phoney. After all, you are attractive, intelligent and interesting in your own way--but other people will not know this unless you act accordingly. People treat you the way you give them permission to treat you. If you come across as comfortable and confident in yourself, people will notice you.

No, this does not mean you have to turn yourself into a type "A" personality. Just act comfortable with yourself and don't be intimidated by anyone. I am definitely a shy type B personality but everyone in my company knows who I am and greets me warmly when they see me, I get invited to events, etc. because I try to treat everyone as if they are special.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

You've captured the vicious cycle perfectly. People want to spontaneously noticed and accepted without any effort on their own.
And to be valued and desired requires meeting the people who will do so. Wanting lifelong friendship and respect without all the upfront work of meeting people and pushing through the casual friendship that must precede will lead to disappointment.

So, painfully perhaps, "Jeff or someone else" are right: you have to get out there and be in the community to meet those with whom you'll find and share respect and friendship. It's not just going to bars to meet loose women and drunk men (no appeal to me there). It can be sports leagues, the church, your neighbors, service organizations, charities. There are many ways to meet people.

It seems obvious, but the denial of this is just what you describe. It's not easy. Some people step into a room and have 15 new best friends within the hour. Others take years to develop deep friendships. But in all cases, it takes involvement to develop strong relationships. It generally takes effort to be noticed and earn respect.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Of course you can. See...


... are the same insecurities that everyone feels, regardless of circumstance. Hence you hear stuff like Jessica Alba saying she's not attractive. Guess what, none of us are special singular snowflakes (to paraphrase FIGHT CLUB ). If your unhappy with your life, change it. You'll probably fail a bunch, but everyone does, so don't worry about it. No one said it was easy and no ones owed anything.


Best advice in the thread, and sums it all up.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

So I should go up to strange women in grocery stores and tell them I like your melons?

Jay

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

Brad, you have captured the syndrome perfectly, but look at what you say here:


I have to ask . . . How are you supposed to meet someone who will "value and desire" you if you can't even muster up the courage to ask a horny drunk girl to dance? I know I'm blunt, but guys like us need blunt. No one's going to stop in the middle of the day and all of a sudden say "Hey that lonely looking shlump in the corner is really a great guy, I think I'll value and desire him!!" It doesn't work that way, mostly because lonely looking schlumps aint' that valuable or desireable.

No ones going to hand you friendship or compainionship on a silver platter. Relationships aren't something that people hand out like a perfume sample, they are earned. The good thing is, they aren't that hard to earn.

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I am loathe to agree with Jeff but I do Seriously, I was utterly puzzled by the paragraph you quoted as well. Of course we all want to be valued and desired. Of course we all want meaningful connections. But how the heck are you supposed to get there without casual interractions, i.e., meeting people and chit chatting first? I would to walk into a room and know my soul mates right away. But while I am waiting for that magical moment, I have to go out and do weird things like small talk and casual convos

Now I am not saying it's easy for everyone (it wasn't always easy for me.) But there is no way around it if you truly want those meaningful connections. None.

EDIT: Well OK there is the internet. It does allows you to cut through a lot of crap at least as far as dating goes. As for other kinds of internet-enabled gatherings like say HTF meets, you're still gonna have to casually interact and somehow maintain people's interests (i.e., back to square one.) Unlike some girl you met on match.com, we haven't gone through a pre-screening or compatibility test.

--
H

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

I suspect that my point (or more accurately my complaint about the advice) was obscured by all my blah blah blah, so I'll try to clarify it.

I'm suggesting to Robert and others like myself that forcing the situation and adapting your introverted personality to socialize with the masses in environments that don't already appeal to you will not be as rewarding as specifically seeking out like minded people where they congregate and socializing with them in a limited way. It's difficult to find a "people completely like me" club to hang out in, but finding a "people who like this one thing that I really like" club is easier than it has ever been. As an example, I meet the largest number of strangers by playing poker. It's a hobby that I really enjoy even though a large portion of the other players are absolute assholes. I'm not expecting to find a soulmate in that activity, just a few suckers. If I can get a good conversation out of the experience as well then it's win-win for me. But you can see how that approach is different than just mixing in an unstructured social situation like a bar or club. And it's vastly different than walking up to ladies at the market and talking about melons.

So my complaint isn't about the advice to "get out there", it's about the "there" that keeps getting proposed. If you alreaddy like to drink or dance or have shouting conversations, then a bar is definitely the proper place to go. If, like me, none of that appeals to you then it seems like a setup for disappointment - and therefore unwelcome advice. My point is that if you generally want more rewarding social interaction in your life then it's better to get it in small, selective doses - some poker time with poker players, some sci-fi nerd time on a targetted internet forum, etc. You will continue to be "invisible" in public, but you won't feel as isolated if you have some place to go for a meeting of the minds. It's easier to build limited relationships with people who have already self-identified a specific common interest than it is to find those people in an open public location by kissing all the frogs.

Does that clarify my point of view?

Brad

Re: Going thru life being unnoticed

It does, but you have to compromise a bit too. So to just write off bars because of your preconceptions, your litmiting yourself.

Ok, I had pretty much a complete change in my friend pool due to life stuff, and I found myself with just a handful of friends. I changed that and what I did was accept every invite out I got (went so far as traveling to the UK and staying with people I only knew via the internet). Didn't matter what it was, I accepted. Yeah, I did stuff I wouldn't of typically done, but I also had fun doing it. And yeah, some of the circumstances sucked, but the good outweighs the bad. Some peopel I met and what not, I didn't like, so I moved on. It's all in the choices. I hve as many emotional hang ups and social awkwardness as the next guy, but you have to chose if you want to do something about it.

So all this "I don't like shouting over music" stuff, it's an excuse because your scared of rejection, just get out there. If you like UFC or something, goto a pub that has the PPV. Or goto a neighbourhood place that has a trivia night or something. Or a bookstore with a coffee shop.

If it's just the bottom line that you are introverted and don't like people, then really, accept it, shut up about it and stare at the walls for the rest of your life or whatever it is you like doing. It's pretty black and white really, either your unhappy and want to make a change, or your unhappy and want to be coddled about it. This thread can go round and round with people offering suggestions that are going to get poo poo'd because they are out of others comfort zones, the same comfort zones that are making them complain about where they are with their lives.

*EDIT, not specifically calling you out Brad, your post was last and mentioned things that others always bring up, so I used it as a sound board. Sorry if it sounds like I'm yelling at you.