The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Check out this article with comments from Alan Armer, FUGITIVE producer:

http://classictvhistory.wordpress.co...video-release/

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

"We hope our track record on previous releases shows that we truly care about classic TV and its fans."

Does anyone think I'm reading too much into the spokesperson's comment, touting their track record as a kind of indirect way of saying, "We know we screwed up and we're going to fix it."

Admittedly, I'm looking for any glimmer of hope here.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Funny thing is, session drummer Bernard Purdie has claimed they did exactly that back in 1964, and it's Purdie we've been hearing all these years! (It's nonsense, but a few of the Beatles' pre-EMI tracks with original drummer Pete Best were re-released in the US with another drummer overdubbed, and some have speculated this is what Purdie remembered.)

Back to the discussion at hand...

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I don't have any of these episodes on VHS, but I would definitely prefer no further releases if those are the only two options. Treat the show with the great respect it deserves or don't bother at all.

This is extremely pathetic and the BS response from CBS/Paramount only served to anger me even further. I would have no problem waiting a few years if necessary if they needed the time to address any legal issues. As was mentioned previously, all they had to do was let us know the reason(s) behind any delays.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Carab, it is exactly because of that track record that I'm puzzled by the very poor way CBS/P has handled this all the way from the non-disclosure/altered credits to the tardy & less than stellar explanation.

I agree with you that if enough consumers complain that there is a reasonable chance this release will get fixed to the extent possible. There may be some music that will not be clearable; but I would expect, based on the S1 release, the bulk of it will be properly reinstated.

The Paramount syndication bible indicates that all of S2 has been transfered to HD which suggests that S2 V2 materials with replaced music have likely already been prepared. Given that CBS/P now knows that sales of same will be dismal it will be interesting to see what approach they take towards releasing it (assuming they do).


That thought has crossed my mind also. (shudders)

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Maybe we should delete all references to the possible Mason problem--why alert anyone?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Also, do we really have any hard early evidence that sales of S2V1 have been drastically poor (Amazon is a good sign but not a definitive indicator, IMHO)? It's logical to think they dropped, but to the extent it affects the bottom line and ultimate change...we can only hope...

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gord & David, let me belatedly check in and congratulate you on prying a statement loose from CBS, however unhelpful it turned out to be. (Your title for that post, incidentally, sounds sorta familiar.) I'm going to save any substantial comment for an update on the recent developments on my blog later this week; but, one of the key points there will be the need to not let the matter drop after receipt of the usual corporate non-answer. I would hope that TVShowsonDVD (and any other outlet covering this story) immediately recognized the omissions in CBS' statement, and fired back some specific questions on the aspects of the situation that the statement did not address.

On another matter, I've just now noticed something subtle about the altered title card(s) in the closing credits. I had just assumed that the new names were digitally added to the original card, but on closer inspection (see the frame grab comparison on my blog), you can tell that the entire title card was redone. The new typeface is slightly narrower, so that the crew's titles don't extend as far across the screen as they originally did (notice how "Post Production Supervisor" covers almost the entire width in the original but ends above the "Z" in John Elizalde's name now). I've already sent my DVDs back, so my question to those of you who still have copy is this: were the entire closing credits redone in the new font, or is this one card in a different font than the others? I'm not sure which is more infuriating, although a total replacement of the end credits would amount to a somewhat more extensive visual edit than we'd pointed out before.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

We mustn't put the impetus only on David and Gord--it is important that everyone who believes strongly in restoring the music in the set writes CBS and Paramount physical letters and asks those same hard questions.

I implore all of you to send handsigned letters as soon as possible.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I would be more than happy to e-mail CBS's video department in a civil, but firm tone. I would tell them that they could redeem themselves if they restored the original music in these sets. My e-mail would NOT, repeat, NOT contain personal attacks against anyone. What's the video department's e-mail address?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Emails, if not ignored outright, don't carry nearly as much weight as a handsigned, mailed letters, which can be sent to:

Paramount Home Entertainment
5555 Melrose Ave.
Hollywood, CA 90038

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I can't be sure of release day statistics, but since the music replacement issue has been made known, the release of "The Fugitive" S2, V1 has not cracked the top 20 of TV-on-DVD releases at DeepDiscount. And that's with a 20% off sale going on. Other recent CBS Paramount releases like "Mannix" S1, "Hawaii Five-0" S4, and "The Odd Couple" S4 are all among the top 20 TV-on-DVD releases. Between Amazon and Deep Discount, arguably the largest online DVD sellers, online sales have to be affected somewhat.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Credit goes much more to Gord than to me, but thanks on behalf of TSoD.



The title of the post "Official CBS Home Entertainment Response to Music Issue"?

I think you MEANT to compare the title for Gord's original editorial ("Editorial: Lawyers, Disclaimers and the Replaced Fugitive Music") to the title of your blog post elsewhere ("Lawyers, DVDs, and Money: Fugitive Musical Scores From a FUGITIVE DVD Release").

For the record, I knew that there was a blog post SOMEWHERE about this matter (mainly due to my good friend Ron Epstein stating in a post several pages back in this thread that a blog post somewhere had - he felt - misrepresented the intent of something he had said...btw, that's between y'all, as far as I'm concerned), but I didn't know it was yours, I didn't know what the exact content was, and I certainly didn't know the title of your blog post until I read it yesterday after Charles Thaxton posted the link to it a few posts up in this thread.

I am not certain if Gord has or has not read it yet, but I suspect that he has not. Gord and I have had private discussions on this general topic of how lawyers affect TV-DVD releases, on and off, for quite some time. I wasn't surprised that he titled his editorial that way.



Gord received the statement quite late in the day (into the dinner hour on the west coast, where the studio is at) (for the record, Gord is Mtn Time Zone and I am Ctl Time Zone) and immediately exchanged some e-mails with the person, and then got them on the phone briefly. The majority of the discussion, as I understand it, centered around Gord's editorial (and how the studio reacted to it, I suspect ), but there was also some discussion about how the statement didn't really cover things well, and also in how the studio has not really done a great job in the past of following up on issues of previous releases...did everyone forget the great Gunsmoke episode switch-a-roo, among others?

The Gunsmoke one represents an item that WE (Gord and I) have not forgotten in the least...but on the other hand we've made absolutely no headway on, either, because the studio hasn't said "boo" about it. There's only so much we can do besides keep asking "any word about that yet?" Since you don't see us posting a follow up, then you can tell what kind of response (if any) that we get.


I guess I'll post my own disclaimer here and say that this is all my own point of view, and not meant to put words in the mouth of either Gordo or TSoD.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I didn't mean to accuse anybody of anything ... just making an observation and wondering aloud if one influenced the other. Perhaps it just means we all need a moratorium on Zevon puns.

Thanks for the update, David. There's no excuse for them not to stick that missing Gunsmoke episode on an upcoming release; I can see how they might not have had time to squeeze it into Season 2, Volume 2, but they they deserve another good reaming from all of us if they don't add it to the next set (if there is one).

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

CBS/Paramount's new slogan:


We Don't Just Put TV On DVD...

We Screw Up The Soundtrack, Too!

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

And We May Have Edited The Episodes... But Wouldn't You Like To Know?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Why doesn't it seem like these sort of problems existed before CBS got hold of Paramount's home video division in the Viacom shakeup?

Interesting that CBS should suggest fans look at their track record on TV releases. Didn't they also strip just about all of the music out of the latest Happy Days season release? Sure, those were mostly pop songs and we all know how hard it has gotten to get clearances, but the result is the same: A generic, newly-recorded soundtrack. Clearly, someone at CBS has decided that issuing TV sets with replaced music is the way to go in matters of disputed rights over music.

I don't buy that they "truly care" about classic TV either. There are two seasons of Taxi still waiting for release. They haven't been released because of sales concerns. Same thing with the re-recorded Fugitive soundtrack: It's about money.

"A seamless, consistent experience"? Well, they got that part right.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

On that subject, anybody know why on Happy Deay: Season 2 that although the music was replaced on the US release, when it came out in the UK, all of the original music was intact and untampered with?

I suppose it might be different laws on royalties/copyright between the UK and US? I'm really surprised that even so, that the US didn't send them the altered masters anyway out of laziness...

BTW, anybody know if the UK set for Season 3 is similarly uncut, or did it suffer the same fate as the US version this time around?

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Well if that is actually the case there is still a matter concerning
a "blog" that falsely accuses me of saying things I did not.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I'm not clear on the details, but you are essentially correct -- there are "blanket licensing" deals in the UK that allow this.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Carab is right; sending in letters (respectful but firm) is very effective. If anything it will show Paramount that their consumers are very much in tune with what is being released and will not accept sub par products.

If consumers make their feelings known about this situation in sufficient numbers it will go a long way to not only obtaining a potential fix for this release, but just as importantly, ensure that future releases of other series aren't similarly compromised.

To show the effectiveness of letter writing: several years ago, it was the result of many Charlie Chan fans writing letters to Fox Home Entertainment that convinced them to release the series on DVD after a home video exec said on this very forum that he was going to leave them in the vault due to poor sales potential. After seeing the demand Fox relented and released deluxe editions of each title. I'm told that these releases have done very well for them.

Steve

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

E-mail address edited by moderator. This is the internet. Bots scan it.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my goodness!!! What in the world is going on? I leave for a few days and the entire world comes unglued. I am in complete shock at this news. And I'm utterly dismayed. Like many of the other fans here, I just can't support this release because the background music is so, so central to the show. I listened to the example snippet that was linked and there's just no way I can get behind it. So since I actually planned to order this weekend, just in time for the end of the DD sale, I'm going to have to pass. Yep, I'm not buying this one. And as many of you know, that's no small comment coming from me. I like to try and support the studios that are good to vintage TV on dvd, but this is just too egregious for me to overlook.

The real killer (and shocker) in this whole mess is that my favorite studio is doing this. I've sung the praises of CBS/Paramount for some time now but this is a huge blow to me. Yes, they have and will continue to put out great stuff and I probably shouldn't let this taint my view of them but I just can't help it. This show was at the top of my "holy grail" list and there's no way I can overlook this. The fact that they couldn't or didn't secure the rights is bad enough since I never, ever would have imagined this could be an issue. But the thing that distresses me the most is the apparent way in which they tried to "pull the wool over our eyes" with the small print about the subs and the digital write-overs during the end credits (if I got that right).

Thanks to everyone that has contributed, including good buddies Jeff W, Glen, Bert, michael ks, Steve O, David, and others that thought about me during this time. I'm glad to be counted among the great fans of "The Fugitive". And special thanks to an old buddy I've known from another forum - Carab! Glad to see you here, friend. I'm just sorry that it took this to bring you out of lurkdom.

Gary "man, what a downer to come back home to" O.

P.S. Something interesting. I had this set sitting in my Deep Discount wish list and it notes that this set ships directly from the manufacturer. Now this does happen from time to time with DD, but I find it interesting in this case. I'm guessing this means that DD does NOT have any sets in their warehouse and aren't planning on getting any more in soon. Usually they either have things "in stock" or "out of stock - will ship when available". Does anyone think the status with this particular set has anything to do with what we are discussing? Just seems strange for a big company like Deep Discount to not have a big CBS/Paramount set like this one either in stock or coming soon. Maybe it's nothing, but I'd love to know what that status is all about.

P.P.S. I'm never going on vacation again.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

An e-mail address that is advertised in black-and-white at Paramount's website (in the "FAQ" section, btw) cannot be revealed in a post at HTF??

A curious policy. But...okay.

(I'd better go back to page 7 of this thread and take out another reference I previously made to that same address.)

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Gary, welcome back from vacation. I hope you and your family had a wonderful time in spite of the bad news you came back to.

Your observation about deepdiscount.com is an interesting one. Undoubtedly CBS/P will be sitting on a large inventory of product and I can't imagine they'd recall all the sets as opposed to offering some sort of exchange program, but who knows.

They surely know their reputation has taken a hit with this release and the editorial that Gord wrote was widely read. I can't imagine they won't take some steps to correct this especially since S2 V2 is effectively dead in the water before they even release it.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Thanks for the welcome home, Steve. It was very, very shocking and disheartening to come back to such news. No doubt about that. I'm hoping a little bit of time will ease the pain - but it's not likely unless CBS actually goes the extra mile and offers some type of corrected replacement down the road.

We think alike when it comes to Deep Discount and CBS/Paramount. I find the stock issue very strange and can't help but think it's somehow related to the problems discussed in this thread. Having said that, I have no idea if there's even the smallest amount of truth in those thoughts of mine. Perhaps it's just a bizarre coincidence. I also have to believe the company will see sales for this set suffer and I can only hope they realize the answer is corrected audio and not abandonment. I believe those are the two options we are looking at. I can't comprehend that a Season 2, Volume 2 will come out with the same subbed music after all this uproar. That option is surely off the table - one would think.

I also meant to tell Gord that I applauded his editorial when I read it earlier today. It was a gutsy, but most appropriate, move on his part on behalf of the fans. CBS/Paramount has made their way to the top of the heap by offering high quality releases of vintage material. This stunt knocks them down a peg, it's just that since no one else was even close they probably get to stay on top a while longer (although SHOUT is challenging in my book). But their brief explanation about fans giving them slack for their past performance does NOT cut it in my book. This show was too important to me, and someone at CBS/Paramount should have known that of all vintage shows this is one where you couldn't get away with background music replacement. Someone should have known that wouldn't work in this instance. If not, then they really need to visit the proverbial "clue's closet".

Gary "somehow, someway, they have to make this one right - similar to what I believe is happening with 'ROUTE 66'" O.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Hi Gary and welcome back.

As you mentioned, this happens from time to time at DD - the last time I noticed it was with Flicker Alley's George Melies box. My own sense is that DD is taking a wait and see approach about titles they aren't sure will sell. Most often in my experience, this has affected higher priced items, but it could also very well include titles that have experienced problems like Route 66 and now The Fugitive.

Don't let this swear you off of vacations, though.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Hi Gary and Welcome back.

Well folks, I have now mailed 6 letters and bought and returned 6 sets.

I am now trying to scheme and see what else I can do.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

Email sent to Paramount Home Video & review posted on Amazon.

My opinions mirror all of yours, this is a huge disgrace and disappointment to fans and customers alike. Hopefully Paramount will make amends.

Re: The Fugitive, Season Two Volume 1 - Reviews

I have also done my duty. Sent a typed and hand-signed letter to CBS/Paramount, and also returned my unopened DVD set to DVDPlanet, with a letter enclosed explaining why and asking them to let CBS/Paramount know that they're getting returns for this reason.

What a mess. Oh well, the Hawaii Five-O season four set just arrived, so I'll settle in to watch that instead. (Just finished The Invaders -- I feel I'm living my childhood all over again with all these great shows from the 1960s.)