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Douglas Monce
- Douglas Monce
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
When Walmart becomes the leader in HD/BR sales then that means Blu-ray has become mass market. I agree with you that BR software needs to come down before BR becomes mass market. The less than $300 BR player with a $100 gift card that Walmart is currently offering helps, but the software pricing needs to be addressed by the studios.
Crawdaddy
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I noticed that my Walmart has reduced most of their blu-ray movies to $24. A step in the right direction.
Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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Douglas Monce
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Jesse Blacklow
If you did, it must have been from a promotion or open-box and at the very end of the year. Even at the end of December 1999, retailers were pegging the lowest DVD prices at $199, and the average price was above $250. Even Netflix says average pricing was well over $200-$300 in 1999:  |
I have no doubt that it was a Walmart special not unlike the $99 HD DVD players last year. But that special popped up again and again over the next year. Of course the average price was $250. Most players were still selling for $350 or above. And again I don't think this was the MSRP for the Apex player. It's suggested price was probably $150 or $200, but Walmart, as they often do, had a deal on them.
Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I started buying DVDs in 97 and NEVER paid $30 for one. At that point that DVDs came out I wasn't even paying $30 for Laserdiscs anymore.
Doug
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Then you were fortunate. When I first saw DVDs on retail shelves, most titles were stickered at 32.99$ and up (a few were 24.99$). This was in New England. In Montreal, with the low Canadian dollar of that time (nearly 60% lower in value than it is now), 45$ was the LOW price and 60$ was not uncommon. By 2001, when I started buying them, they were still around 30$ (I remember splurging for Galaxy Quest at 32.99 plus 15% tax). Until 2003, USED DVDs were routinely 19.99$ at the local video stores and 29.99$ had become the "standard" price for new ones. Today there are scores of 5.99$ specials (usually, older leftovers, but still) and my local video store will now sell me THREE SD DVDs for 12$ (used). Today's BD prices are numerically the same, and, with inflation, CHEAPER than most titles I saw until 2001 on SD DVD.
As for Laserdisc, I never got into that format because I never saw a title selling for less than 50$ (and most were closer to 100$)--in Montreal, at any rate. I didn't demand 20$ laserdiscs and 50$ players, though. I simply went without (and planned to get into laserdisc when I could afford it--SD DVD came along instead). So while Blu-ray will eventually reach "mass-market" prices, I don't expect that as of RIGHT NOW and I maintain that to do so is an unrealistic expectation.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and it annoys the pig.
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Danny_N
Around 1998-99, on-line prices were relatively low because Amazon was in steep competition with Reel.com. I remember that almost every DVD was nearly always 60% off MRSP which translated in prices of $14 to $20 for new DVDs. Reel.com also had these games where you could earn dollars making it possible to get DVDs for next to nothing. When Reel.com stopped selling DVDs, Amazon (and other e-tailers) raised their prices significantly.
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Perhaps this is the source of the different experiences. I never bought or even shopped for media online until 2003 or so--certainly not in the late 90s when I did not have a PC at home, never mind an internet connection (I used the internet for work and research purposes only back then and I did all of that from the school where I taught at the time). All of my exposure to SD DVD until 2003 was in B&M stores only.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time, and it annoys the pig.
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
To me, it´s mainly about the quality. It´s not a huge problem for me to pay e.g. 20$ for some release with good 1080p quality, lossless audio and extras. First two (1080p and lossless) are something, that already beats the SD DVD hands down.
Of course, getting the Blu-ray prices down to the "SD DVD level" is something that I also wish, but at *this point* I can live with 20$ (or so) price range.
Then again, if some release has "mediocre" (well, "mediocre" means different things to different people, but still..) 1080p-transfer and no extras - and the price is still around 27$, I probably pass and wait for the upcoming "BOGO"-sales etc. I don´t want to kid myself here, since I have already probably over 150 (or something) Blu-ray/HD DVD/SD DVD-titles on my shelf "to be watched", so I´m not really in a hurry to watch everything as soon as they´re being released... It´s crazy actually..
Then again, if I love the film enough...
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Douglas Monce
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Patrick_S
Everyone keeps mentioning BOGO sales but when was the last time Amazon had one of those, January?
Yes I know other retailers have had some here and there, the last I remember being Target but those discs were 29.99 to start with so it really wasn’t as great as when Amazon had the sales.
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Well last year there was a BOGO sale every other week. I think they feel that now that they have won, they don't need to do them anymore. Or at least not as often.
Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Jari K
No, that is not what I meant. Blu-ray obviously needs to lower ALL prices in some degree (both software and hardware) and that magical MSRP should be lower from that start. We all agree on that one, I´m sure.
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I see what you mean. Thanks for the clarification.
John
"The names Francis Sawyer, but everybody calls me "Psycho."
Any of YOU guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya!"
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by Douglas Monce
I read in March that HDTVs are in about 40% of American homes.
Doug
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That sounds about right to me. My point is, of this 40% [or whatever the actual number might be] many still have no interest in or knowledge of Blu Ray. While a HDTV can probably be considered a pre-requisite for owning a Blu Ray player, the opposite is not true. Further, of the remaining 60% who do not currently own a HDTV, it is basically a forgone conclusion that they eventually will.
At some point, HDTV will reach critical mass. The US government has all but guaranteed it. Blu Ray has no such assurance, thus people still need to be "incentivized." Lower prices (along with some educational marketing) are the quickest route to this.
John
"The names Francis Sawyer, but everybody calls me "Psycho."
Any of YOU guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya!"
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by David Deeb
The big challenge is that most people just don't "get" HD. Everywhere I go (bank lobbies, restaurants, businesses, other people's homes) I see stretched SD material on HDTVs. It looks like horse$#@$..
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It could be, that it´s more like they don´t understand aspect ratios and don´t know how to use "set-up menu" with their TV-set. Now with their fancy WIDESCREEN-sets, everything has to "fill the screen", so 4:3-material is "stretched" and some people even use "zoom" with 2.35:1-material.. It´s of course quite sad.
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by DeanWG
Oh man . . . 800.com was awesome...
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I remember 800.com. Great deals while they lasted.
John
"The names Francis Sawyer, but everybody calls me "Psycho."
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping poin
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Originally Posted by John Dirk
I remember 800.com. Great deals while they lasted.
John
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Great deals indeed though one has to wonder whether the economic impact of such was worth it.
I love a great deal just like anyone else, but I wouldn't really want to see more of the same right now (w/ another .com crash and all that)...
_Man_
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...
The Apex pricing was weird because of a number of factors. The very first model was readily hackable not only to remove region coding, but Macrovision as well. As I recall, it sold in the summer of 1998 for about $175 off the shelves, but when Steve Tannehill and others started letting people know what that thing could do, you couldn't get them for love or money---they ran $400 regularly on eBay. They were insanely hot. The followup models were still hackable but not as easily and when they came in mass quantities then the price cratered and that let to the $80 prices. Still, the basic price was pretty attractive that early in the life cycle of DVD. And my first generation Apex is still playing fine.
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...
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Originally Posted by Mark Zimmer
The Apex pricing was weird because of a number of factors. The very first model was readily hackable not only to remove region coding, but Macrovision as well. As I recall, it sold in the summer of 1998 for about $175 off the shelves, but when Steve Tannehill and others started letting people know what that thing could do, you couldn't get them for love or money---they ran $400 regularly on eBay. They were insanely hot. The followup models were still hackable but not as easily and when they came in mass quantities then the price cratered and that let to the $80 prices. Still, the basic price was pretty attractive that early in the life cycle of DVD. And my first generation Apex is still playing fine.
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Thanks for the extra bit of info/reminder though the info I found, which corroborates w/ my own recollections, point to sometime more like late 1999 or early 2000 as the initial release date for those 1st batches of Apex players (at the ~$180 price point). And the <$100 pricing probably didn't happen (as a regular thing) until late 2000 or sometime in 2001.
_Man_
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...
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Originally Posted by AaronMan
I think I would be able to stomach the higher prices for the software if there was more on the disc than just the movie. I'm not paying 35 bucks for a movie-only disc of Commando or RoboCop. That just isn't going to happen.
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That's a poor example of the format as a whole, considering that most releases have plenty of special features, and sell for less than $35.
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...
I don't know if this was mentioned here yet (too busy to read it all) but I just came across the following link that had some interesting numbers about BR sales.
Here is the link:
Hollywood In Hi-Def
Here is a sample:
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| Blu-ray software sales in the first four months of this year more than quadrupled from the same period last year, climbing to 11 million since inception. |
So it would seem that all the doom and gloom talk is not justifed.
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Scott
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Re: I don't care what the mass media is saying, we are closing in on the tipping point...
Well, if Blu-ray is going to be a complete failure then someone forgot to tell the rental stores in my area. While still small, the BD section at local video stores are steadily increasing in size.
I asked the clerks about the rental rate of BD discs. They told me that the rental rate has increased quite a bit, since HD DVD threw in the towel.
I also notice that they are starting to bring in more than one copy of a particular film for rental.
While I do not believe that BD will supplant DVD any time soon, I also think BD will prove to be more than a niche market.
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