Home Theater Forum  ›  Forums  ›  Blu-ray, DVD, Digital Downloads  ›  Blu-ray (and Other Hi-Def Software): Film and Documentary  ›  A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread

A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

#241
Rating: 0
6/9/08 at 9:06am
  • Joined: June 2000
  • Location: Knoxville, TN
  • Post Count: 4,512

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

I have the DTS Bomb problem on several discs. I'm currently waiting for a second firmware upgrade for my Onkyo 805 that might, hopefully, fix all of the problem. I used the 5.0 Dolby when I viewed Patton. I'm not hot to play new DTS Master tracks as of late.

My problem discs are The Fly, Master And Commander, and The Golden Compass. That's bitstreaming from a Panasonic 30 >805. Some other discs that some folks have reported bombs on have played OK for me. So far, I think all the problem titles are from New Line & Fox.

Rachael, the big disc cat! I used to be looking for Hi-Vision Laserdiscs & D-Theater tapes, now I'm looking for HD-DVD's and Blu-rays.

I survived the AFI top 100 Film Challenge! I've seen them all.

favourite saying: hard feelings are for park benches... sit on that!

Export to Wiki
#242
Rating: 0
6/9/08 at 10:10am
  • Joined: December 1998
  • Post Count: 7,336

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

A shame so many are disappointed in this disc.

I dont like the wax figure look either.
Export to Wiki
#243
Rating: 0
6/9/08 at 8:47pm
  • Joined: August 2001
  • Post Count: 1,159

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

I finally saw this on my 92 in screen.

I do not like the "grain-raping" as Mr. Harris might say. It is indeed visible, but nothing like the smeary grain gang-rape of the Eyes Wide Shut Blu-ray, which I find unwatchable, or other oft-mentioned DNR victims (Tremors, et al).

That being said, the Patton Blu-ray still makes my 2001 THX DVD look like a bad VHS dub.

Where Patton once walked into frame as a smudge of a figure in the opening wide shot in the 2001 DVD, you can now see eyes, nose, and mouth. Even the medals are defined in the wide shot. I was not expecting such a significant increase in detail. I can't speak about the 2006 DVD, but the screen caps and the word is that the 2001 trumps it in detail. And IMHO the Blu-ray smokes the 2001 DVD. And then bitch slaps it. I'm very happy to have the Blu-ray.

I can only imagine what has been scrubbed out. I wish it was still there. There was no need to "grain-rape." That sounds like and should be a crime

I will add my voice to the chorus denouncing the use of DNR in the manner it was used here, but now I understand the paradox Mr. Harris has revealed in this thread: how the Patton Blu-ray can be both flawed and highly/hearty recommended at the same time.
Export to Wiki
#244
Rating: 0
6/10/08 at 3:29pm
  • Joined: August 2000
  • Location: BritCol. North of a Black Hole and West of The Centre of the...
  • Post Count: 4,104

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Well, this one finally showed up at my local B&M. 35 bucks Canadian. I kept picking it up and putting it back. I'd really like to see that segment called "Patton's Ghost Army", but all of the talk in thread about "waxy" looks and detail reduction has put me off. I was pretty sure that I was going to get it when it arrived. It showed up and I was totally undecided about whether to get it or not.

Your spurs.....

There are two kinds of spurs, my friend!
Those that come in by the door...
Those that come in by the window.

Export to Wiki
#245
Rating: 0
6/10/08 at 4:09pm
  • Joined: December 1998
  • Location: Michigan
  • Post Count: 17,524

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Well, this one finally showed up at my local B&M. 35 bucks Canadian. I kept picking it up and putting it back. I'd really like to see that segment called "Patton's Ghost Army", but all of the talk in thread about "waxy" looks and detail reduction has put me off. I was pretty sure that I was going to get it when it arrived. It showed up and I was totally undecided about whether to get it or not.
Edwin,
I am not going to tell you how to spend your money, but I have no regrets buying this BRD and will enjoy it for years until it's revisited again.
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
Export to Wiki
#246
Rating: 0
6/10/08 at 4:25pm
  • Joined: August 2001
  • Location: New York City Area
  • Post Count: 3,798

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwin-S
Well, this one finally showed up at my local B&M. 35 bucks Canadian. I kept picking it up and putting it back. I'd really like to see that segment called "Patton's Ghost Army", but all of the talk in thread about "waxy" looks and detail reduction has put me off. I was pretty sure that I was going to get it when it arrived. It showed up and I was totally undecided about whether to get it or not.

Maybe you should give it a rent first? OR do you not have that option where you are?

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

Export to Wiki
#247
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 9:10am
  • Joined: August 2000
  • Post Count: 4,833

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Edwin,
I am not going to tell you how to spend your money, but I have no regrets buying this BRD and will enjoy it for years until it's revisited again.

I ended up rolling the dice to purchase it. It should be arriving any day now. Worse case scenario - I don't like it and should be able to sell it close to what I paid (got it through Deep Discount 20% off sale). I'm sure it's the best Patton will look for a long time in homes and I'll post my thoughts on it although I only have a very modest sized display (60"). I'm still holding out a tiny bit of blind hope that Fox will fix the issue.
Export to Wiki
#248
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 9:30am
  • Joined: February 2000
  • Post Count: 663

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave H
I'm still holding out a tiny bit of blind hope that Fox will fix the issue.

If they do fix the issue for other movies down the road this thread I will be happy, too. I think it is a very good idea to be vocal about essentially their first classic release that went wrong in order to prevent the treatment that Patton got for as many movies as possible.
Export to Wiki
#249
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 9:50am
  • Joined: August 2000
  • Post Count: 4,833

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverK
If they do fix the issue for other movies down the road this thread I will be happy, too. I think it is a very good idea to be vocal about essentially their first classic release that went wrong in order to prevent the treatment that Patton got for as many movies as possible.

I agree. In fact, I'm still preparing a letter to Fox and will send it after I watch Patton. I know a lof of the Blu-ray insiders at other sites are getting pounded with PMs and have contacted Fox about it too. Maybe...just maybe...given the exposure and high profile older title Patton is that something could be done. I mean Sony remastered Fifth Element, Disney fixed the Pirates framing error, and Warner re-released some of the filtered titles. Some of these are different kinds of issues, but we'll see.
Export to Wiki
#250
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 10:07am
  • Joined: February 2000
  • Post Count: 663

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

And let's not forget that Patton is also region coded - they could do another release without region coding and make the US customers happy and the rest of the world, too.
Export to Wiki
#251
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 11:39am
  • Joined: February 1999
  • Post Count: 2,933

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Just a thought, but the future of large format releases for MGM could easily come into the fray here.

Much of this depends upon whether Fox as distributor or MGM as owner is pulling the tech strings.

Fox could have a number of 65mm origination titles in jeopardy (Sound of Music, Dr. Dolittle, Cleopatra, etc.) if the same system is used, and MGM could have yet another release of West Side Story that doesn't make the technical cut.

The last venture into video land for WSS virtually had the two leads singing each other's lines in one song as sync had gone way out.

The use of the technology we're seeing on Patton could have far-ranging negative results, dumbing down Blu-Ray just when it should be on a rise.

Hopefully someone at Blu can put a stop to this.

RAH

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

Export to Wiki
#252
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 12:00pm
  • Joined: August 2001
  • Location: New York City Area
  • Post Count: 3,798

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
The use of the technology we're seeing on Patton could have far-ranging negative results, dumbing down Blu-Ray just when it should be on a rise.

Hopefully someone at Blu can put a stop to this.

RAH

Hmmm... Maybe they could work it out between the CE companies and the studios to put all the DNR/EE/overcooking tech into the CE hardware (by default and can be optionally defeated by those of us who care) and leave the source material themselves w/ pristine/faithful transfers. That way the CE companies can tout whatever "advanced" (over)processing features like 120Hz smoothing and sell more of their products while saving us from overcooked transfers from the studios.

One would think that would be a win-win solution for everyone, no?

_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

Export to Wiki
#253
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 12:33pm
  • Joined: August 2000
  • Location: BritCol. North of a Black Hole and West of The Centre of the...
  • Post Count: 4,104

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Edwin,
I am not going to tell you how to spend your money, but I have no regrets buying this BRD and will enjoy it for years until it's revisited again.

Well, I decided to pull the trigger and bought this title. I've looked at your set up, which definitely is on another level than my gear. If you were satisfied with this iteration of the film then I was pretty sure this title would look good enough until FOX either revisits or issues a corrected copy.

I decided I was not going to deny myself a reasonably decent upgrade of a film that contains one of the finest perfomances ever recorded. It probably sounds hyperbolic, but I think the film is a near, if not perfect, example of film making. Every element, performances, cinematography, direction, and musical composition mesh beautifully together in the film.

I have to admit, it didn't take long to stop worrying about what was missing and start watching what was there, once I popped the film into the player and started watching.

I would hope that FOX listens to the concerns that have been expressed and releases a corrected film, similar to what SONY did with THE FIFTH ELEMENT; however, I won't hold my breath. FOX seems to be generally unresponsive to the concerns of home theater enthusiasts, as the stink about their pricing strategy seems to demonstrate.

In the meantime, I'll just enjoy this version of the film, flawed as the presentation might be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Maybe you should give it a rent first? OR do you not have that option where you are?

_Man_

I would have considered renting it. The video rental shops are starting to stock BD discs, but they tend to stock newer releases. I'm not sure PATTON is going to be stocked any time soon.

Your spurs.....

There are two kinds of spurs, my friend!
Those that come in by the door...
Those that come in by the window.

Export to Wiki
#254
Rating: 0
6/11/08 at 1:11pm
  • Joined: April 2000
  • Post Count: 4,377

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Harris
Just a thought, but the future of large format releases for MGM could easily come into the fray here.

Much of this depends upon whether Fox as distributor or MGM as owner is pulling the tech strings.

Fox could have a number of 65mm origination titles in jeopardy (Sound of Music, Dr. Dolittle, Cleopatra, etc.) if the same system is used, and MGM could have yet another release of West Side Story that doesn't make the technical cut.

The last venture into video land for WSS virtually had the two leads singing each other's lines in one song as sync had gone way out.

The use of the technology we're seeing on Patton could have far-ranging negative results, dumbing down Blu-Ray just when it should be on a rise.

Hopefully someone at Blu can put a stop to this.

RAH

I still get a chuckle out of what you said, "Image quality is no concern when Marni Nixon is singing for Richard Beymer."

But if you want to make a difference, here's how:

20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
2121 Avenue Of The Stars 25th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90028

MGM Home Entertainment
2500 Broadway
Santa Monica, CA 90404-3061

edit: removed telephone numbers

STOP THE MADNESS! STOP THE BUTCHERING AND ABANDONMENT OF TV SHOWS ON DVD!

My DVD List at DVD Aficionado, Now Featuring Blu-Ray

Export to Wiki
#255
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 3:39am
  • Joined: October 2006
  • Post Count: 51

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

In a slightly off topic note, The mention of MGM and 65mm,leads my thought's straight to David Lean's 70mm Epic 'Ryan's Daughter'.

I understand that Warner Bros now own the rights and have released the 2006 standard 2-disc dvd. I presume that an HD master was struck at the same time, and will this will have been from the 65mm elements, and restored on video only? The reason I ask this,is because it seems Warner don't seem to have a fully restored print at present (on film)

There will be a 70mm screening,plus discussion chaired by Sheldon Hall at the BFI on the 26th of July,and interestly the info provided state's

"A note on the print: Warner Bros have asked that you be advised that this print,taken from the original camera negative ,is a work-in-progress,and not yet fully restored.A small number of shots have yet to be fully timed and colour-corrected. However,we feel that it more than does justice to the craftmanship of Lean and Freddie Young."

The only other info I could find was by: Richard P. May, Warner BrothersDate: March 2003
"Ryan's Daughter" has a new 70mm print, made for color grading prior to manufacturing new 65mm and 35mm interpositives. The original negative is in excellent condition, and did not need any "restoration". This is the only print, and it does not have sound. It was shown last November [2002] at the Academy of Motion Picture, Arts & Sciences, using double system, with the 6 track magnetic sound. It is not available for other use.

What does the above mean to a future Blu-Ray release I wonder.
Export to Wiki
#256
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 5:03am
  • Joined: February 1999
  • Post Count: 2,933

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

It means nothing at all.

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. This I did."  T.E. Lawrence

Export to Wiki
#257
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 8:50am
  • Joined: July 2002
  • Post Count: 6,124

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Fai Wong
Hmmm... Maybe they could work it out between the CE companies and the studios to put all the DNR/EE/overcooking tech into the CE hardware (by default and can be optionally defeated by those of us who care) and leave the source material themselves w/ pristine/faithful transfers. That way the CE companies can tout whatever "advanced" (over)processing features like 120Hz smoothing and sell more of their products while saving us from overcooked transfers from the studios.

One would think that would be a win-win solution for everyone, no?

_Man_
I believe just about every display now has some kind of NR setting, at the very least an off/on, and likely many degrees in between.
As is the case in most things, the typical consumer isn't educated about its function and use, and probably doesn't want to be. They want plug and play and the result to be a uniform, homogenized "oooh, smooth and pretty!"
The key is forcing some education here. That's why I was pushing the idea of inserts so dogmatically a little while back. You need somewhere to reverently explain the original source behind the disc, what makes it special and unique, and possibly what the consumer can do if his display interacts negatively with the source. I haven't owned a conventional display in about 7 years but I wouldn't be suprised if the LCD and DLP tech has issues with resolving the grain. Many of the displays I've seen in the box stores looked terrible-very noisy- playing the same content I own. And that's beyond just typical poor in store calibration.
Export to Wiki
#258
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 9:03am
  • Joined: March 2003
  • Post Count: 990

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Mr. Harris, all this talk about noise reduction, grain removal, and your own comments on "Citizen Kane" ignited this observation from me, which I thought, with your "My Fair Lady" connections, you might enjoy:

"The rain in Kane has vanished with the grain."
Export to Wiki
#259
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 9:12am
  • Joined: February 2001
  • Post Count: 2,992

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

The rain in Kane fades mainly with the grain

Export to Wiki
#260
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 10:28am
  • Joined: November 2006
  • Location: Phoenix, Arizona
  • Post Count: 4,104

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Scott
I haven't owned a conventional display in about 7 years but I wouldn't be suprised if the LCD and DLP tech has issues with resolving the grain. Many of the displays I've seen in the box stores looked terrible-very noisy- playing the same content I own. And that's beyond just typical poor in store calibration.

LCD and DLPs don't have any issues with resolving grain when they are properly calibrated. Judging a flat panel or a projector in the store is often an exercise in frustration. The TVs are always put on the "vivid" setting so the TV will stand out. Of course this setting is the last thing you would look at a TV on and judge its quality.

Doug
"I'm in great shape, for the shape I'm in."
Bob Hope in The Ghostbreakers
Export to Wiki
#261
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 1:33pm
  • Joined: July 2002
  • Post Count: 6,124

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

I can make a little allowance for the fact it's set up in the store, but I really felt what I've seen-on more than one occasion-went beyond that. There was a grittiness to the picture that lacked a signiture of analog film grain. I don't know how else to describe. Could it possibly what some refer to as mosquito noise? Also, this was primarily limited to a couple specific brands. I have seen LCDs that looked quite exceptional in stores.
Export to Wiki
#262
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 4:58pm
  • Joined: March 2003
  • Post Count: 990

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Very often the displays in stores are all connected via a DA; they're all receiving the same feed and usually from not a very high tech source not via quality cables, etc. Oftentimes Wal-Mart HDTVs are trying to broadcast with nothing more than RCA cables. I'm often amazed that ANYONE would buy a TV from some stores based on how those displays look in those stores.
Export to Wiki
#263
Rating: 0
6/13/08 at 7:31pm
  • Joined: August 2001
  • Location: New York City Area
  • Post Count: 3,798

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
The rain in Kane fades mainly with the grain



_Man_

Just another amateur learning to paint w/ "the light of the world".

Export to Wiki
#264
Rating: 0
6/14/08 at 4:34am
  • Joined: August 2001
  • Post Count: 1,159

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Xylon's screen caps are up.
Export to Wiki
#265
Rating: 0
6/14/08 at 4:58am
  • Joined: May 2007
  • Location: Helsinki
  • Post Count: 2,027

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Damn those SD DVDs look bad compared to Blu-ray.. But yes, BD looks quite "polished" when it comes to grain.

Rewind - DVDcompare/Site Administrator
*US PS3 (1080p) - Xbox 360 Elite (HDMI) - Nintendo Wii (Euro) - Sony PSP-2000 - Nintendo DSi
*HD DVD Toshiba XE1 (1080p) - Sony Bravia KDL-40W2000 (1080p) - Yamaha RX-V1800 (HDMI 1.3)

Export to Wiki
#266
Rating: 0
6/14/08 at 10:16am
  • Joined: August 2000
  • Post Count: 4,833

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

It appears they actually used edge enhancement in addition to DNR....maybe to sharpen the image after the fact? Insane.

Yes, it still looks far better than the DVD, but damn. Still a shame. This had the potential to be an incredible release.
Export to Wiki
#267
Rating: 0
6/18/08 at 5:39pm
  • Joined: October 1998
  • Location: Boise ID
  • Post Count: 7,206

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Well my BRD of Patton came in today's mail. I'm not going to complain: I bought it and Battle of Britain on BRD using my unexpected $50 refund from Amazon "for being dumb enough to buy an HD-DVD drive recently".

Why do the discs have three stars emblazoned upon them? Patton was bumped up to four stars midway through the European campaign.

Too bad there's no way they could have put in the unexpurged version of Patton's speech to the troops....

The Famous Patton Speech

Quote:
"Don't forget," Patton barked, "you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the Goddamned Germans. Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Third Army again and that son-of-a-fucking-bitch Patton'."

"We want to get the hell over there", Patton continued, "The quicker we clean up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the Goddamned Marines get all of the credit."

Patton continued quietly, "Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin", he yelled, "I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"
....
"I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my position." We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!"

Feline videophiles Susie and Dukie.

Export to Wiki
#268
Rating: 0
6/18/08 at 5:52pm
  • Joined: November 2007
  • Post Count: 96

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

DVD Talk Review: Patton (Blu-ray)

Another review praising the video transfer. He even says this:

"But I've seen Patton at least twenty times, and this Blu-ray is the closest I've gotten to that first 70mm experience.
Export to Wiki
#269
Rating: 0
6/19/08 at 2:28am
  • Joined: June 2004
  • Post Count: 1,267

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettB
The rain in Kane fades mainly with the grain
Quick, somebody give this guy a coupon or a job in the industry or something!

Robert Downey Jr is NOT Sherlock Holmes.
"I can not in good conscience recommend Sherlock Holmes (2009)"
-- Leonard Maltin.

Export to Wiki
#270
Rating: 0
6/19/08 at 2:43am
  • Joined: December 1998
  • Location: Michigan
  • Post Count: 17,524

Re: A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrf2
DVD Talk Review: Patton (Blu-ray)

Another review praising the video transfer. He even says this:

"But I've seen Patton at least twenty times, and this Blu-ray is the closest I've gotten to that first 70mm experience.
Savant has made mistakes beforehand regarding PQ issues with the dvd presentations.





Crawdaddy
G.W. McLintock: Camille, you're on your own.
Export to Wiki
Forum Nav More Forums | All New Posts | New Thread
Home Theater Forum  ›  Forums  ›  Blu-ray, DVD, Digital Downloads  ›  Blu-ray (and Other Hi-Def Software): Film and Documentary  ›  A few words about...™ Patton -- in Blu-Ray